Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
10-17-2008, 10:54 AM
#261
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RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
"The fact is that the deer hunting in Pennsylvania is still some of the best in the nation and based on the average harvests the state were hunters harvest the most deer per square mile.
Here is the deer harvest data per square mile of land mass for some of the surrounding states."
RSB likes to use the 5 year average to camoflage the steady downhill slide. It kinda takes the sting out of it.[:'(]Also doesnt show the fact those extreme rediculous harvests of the past werent sustainable. IN case you've forgotten RSB,we were still severely REDUCING the herd basically statewide at the beginning of those 5 years. It is those harvests (and those previous as well)which pad those stats that make you number look acceptable.) They are the problem you try to point to as "all is well". We killed far far too many deer in previous years and are paying for it now. Thats also why we had a 40+ yearlow buck harvest THIS PAST YEAR.
"I will post the five highest harvest units and the five lowest harvest units based on the five year harvest averages. All data is in harvests per square mile of land mass. "
No thank you. I think we can all understand the deception in that tactic. We have only been stabilizing our herd (supposedly) for 3 years. And even that has been proven false.
"Don’t put too much stock in all of the snotting and whining you hear from some of the hunters."
Or believe someone who works for the ones who created the problem.
"Many of the ones complaining of no deer today were the same ones complaining about no deer from having killed too many ten and even fifteen and twenty years ago too."
Not me chief. In my area it just been a few years now that Ive had issue with rediculous reduction. That and seeing it STILL hasnt stopped despite claims of stabilization the last 3 years. Not possible when harvest goals and allocations are HIGHER then they were when we were REDUCING the larger herd!(LOL) See pgc annual reports.
"I have been listening to hunters complaining that the Game Commission is issuing too many doe tags and killing off to many of the deer every single year for over forty years."
And never had you had "deer wars",had 80-90% of the hunters wanting pgcs head on a stick or had(all at one time!) Impending audits, being sued, have governement intervention preventing fee increase on behalf of hunters and had huntersnumbers declining at over twice the national average....
Yeah Rsb. Just ushandful of boneheads complaining! (LOL)
"Make no mistake about it, Pennsylvania still has some of the best deer hunting in the nation"
That may be the funniest thing you've ever said Rsb...and I didnt think you had a sense of humor! (LOL) Thats great, cause youd need it if you were to Go proclaim that in any states message boards and see if they dont laugh you out of the forum! (LOL) Ive seen it happen every time. Ohio. Georgia. NewYork,anywhere Ive seen Pa deer hunting mentioned,well...I'll be polite and just say as an understatement.....They h'aint green with envy.[:'(](LOL)
Lanse, Rsbs post is what you call Pa game commission damage control. Paint a rosey pic no matter what. BTW, How many states wildlife "professionals" that you know of had to have bodyguards whenever in public? OUrs did! (LOL)
Here is the deer harvest data per square mile of land mass for some of the surrounding states."
RSB likes to use the 5 year average to camoflage the steady downhill slide. It kinda takes the sting out of it.[:'(]Also doesnt show the fact those extreme rediculous harvests of the past werent sustainable. IN case you've forgotten RSB,we were still severely REDUCING the herd basically statewide at the beginning of those 5 years. It is those harvests (and those previous as well)which pad those stats that make you number look acceptable.) They are the problem you try to point to as "all is well". We killed far far too many deer in previous years and are paying for it now. Thats also why we had a 40+ yearlow buck harvest THIS PAST YEAR.
"I will post the five highest harvest units and the five lowest harvest units based on the five year harvest averages. All data is in harvests per square mile of land mass. "
No thank you. I think we can all understand the deception in that tactic. We have only been stabilizing our herd (supposedly) for 3 years. And even that has been proven false.
"Don’t put too much stock in all of the snotting and whining you hear from some of the hunters."
Or believe someone who works for the ones who created the problem.
"Many of the ones complaining of no deer today were the same ones complaining about no deer from having killed too many ten and even fifteen and twenty years ago too."
Not me chief. In my area it just been a few years now that Ive had issue with rediculous reduction. That and seeing it STILL hasnt stopped despite claims of stabilization the last 3 years. Not possible when harvest goals and allocations are HIGHER then they were when we were REDUCING the larger herd!(LOL) See pgc annual reports.
"I have been listening to hunters complaining that the Game Commission is issuing too many doe tags and killing off to many of the deer every single year for over forty years."
And never had you had "deer wars",had 80-90% of the hunters wanting pgcs head on a stick or had(all at one time!) Impending audits, being sued, have governement intervention preventing fee increase on behalf of hunters and had huntersnumbers declining at over twice the national average....
Yeah Rsb. Just ushandful of boneheads complaining! (LOL)
"Make no mistake about it, Pennsylvania still has some of the best deer hunting in the nation"
That may be the funniest thing you've ever said Rsb...and I didnt think you had a sense of humor! (LOL) Thats great, cause youd need it if you were to Go proclaim that in any states message boards and see if they dont laugh you out of the forum! (LOL) Ive seen it happen every time. Ohio. Georgia. NewYork,anywhere Ive seen Pa deer hunting mentioned,well...I'll be polite and just say as an understatement.....They h'aint green with envy.[:'(](LOL)
Lanse, Rsbs post is what you call Pa game commission damage control. Paint a rosey pic no matter what. BTW, How many states wildlife "professionals" that you know of had to have bodyguards whenever in public? OUrs did! (LOL)
10-17-2008, 12:15 PM
#262
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
I hunt all private land and the habitat is excellent but we probably have one third of the deer we had in the 80s and 90s. They issue huge numbers of antlerless tags in an attempt to reduce the herd in areas where hunters have limited access. But most of the tags are used on land that is open to hunting and in those areas the herd has been reduced to ridiculous levels.
Or, can any of you speak from the perspective of private landholders or those who primarily hunt on private ground.
SGL252 is a example.[:@]
10-17-2008, 02:06 PM
#263
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
original: Cornelius08
Lanse, Rsbs post is what you call Pa game commission damage control. Paint a rosey pic no matter what. BTW, How many states wildlife "professionals" that you know of had to have bodyguards whenever in public? OUrs did! (LOL)
Lanse, Rsbs post is what you call Pa game commission damage control. Paint a rosey pic no matter what. BTW, How many states wildlife "professionals" that you know of had to have bodyguards whenever in public? OUrs did! (LOL)
10-17-2008, 02:29 PM
#264
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Now now btbowhunter, dont get your bloomers in a knot. I didnt particularly care for the joker, and the truth wasnt in him...But I didnt wish him or anyone else any harm because of the deer sham plan. Its all over with as far as that little piece of pa hunting history. And yes, NOW , in hindsite, with no harm having been done...its kind of funny! It only goes to show the old saying is true. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.
For the most part, theactions thatpgc put into placewere incredibly stupid and extreme, and so was that part of the reaction. With no good excuse for either.
And the original point was, thats not exactly the norm for other states where rediculous extremes arent occurring and normal wildlife management is taking place.
It only goes to show the old saying is true. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.For the most part, theactions thatpgc put into placewere incredibly stupid and extreme, and so was that part of the reaction. With no good excuse for either.
And the original point was, thats not exactly the norm for other states where rediculous extremes arent occurring and normal wildlife management is taking place.
10-17-2008, 03:34 PM
#265
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 282
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
"Make no mistake about it, Pennsylvania still has some of the best deer hunting in the nation and it is once again getting even better for the hunters that actually like to hunt.
R.S. Bodenhorn"
This is why non-resident license sales have skyrocketed.
R.S. Bodenhorn"
This is why non-resident license sales have skyrocketed.
10-17-2008, 04:22 PM
#266
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
Now now btbowhunter, dont get your bloomers in a knot. I didnt particularly care for the joker, and the truth wasnt in him...But I didnt wish him or anyone else any harm because of the deer sham plan. Its all over with as far as that little piece of pa hunting history. And yes, NOW , in hindsite, with no harm having been done...its kind of funny! It only goes to show the old saying is true. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.
For the most part, theactions thatpgc put into placewere incredibly stupid and extreme, and so was that part of the reaction. With no good excuse for either.
And the original point was, thats not exactly the norm for other states where rediculous extremes arent occurring and normal wildlife management is taking place.
Now now btbowhunter, dont get your bloomers in a knot. I didnt particularly care for the joker, and the truth wasnt in him...But I didnt wish him or anyone else any harm because of the deer sham plan. Its all over with as far as that little piece of pa hunting history. And yes, NOW , in hindsite, with no harm having been done...its kind of funny!
It only goes to show the old saying is true. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.For the most part, theactions thatpgc put into placewere incredibly stupid and extreme, and so was that part of the reaction. With no good excuse for either.
And the original point was, thats not exactly the norm for other states where rediculous extremes arent occurring and normal wildlife management is taking place.
Actually I've seen similar complaints on this forum from New York guys Jersey guys, Wisconson guys to name a few. Pennsylvania does standout as far as the emotional extremes but does not stand alonein deer management controvery. Most of the whitetail states have a vocal few telling us of the impending doom for their deer herd.
10-17-2008, 04:35 PM
#267
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: the outsider
"Make no mistake about it, Pennsylvania still has some of the best deer hunting in the nation and it is once again getting even better for the hunters that actually like to hunt.
R.S. Bodenhorn"
This is why non-resident license sales have skyrocketed.
"Make no mistake about it, Pennsylvania still has some of the best deer hunting in the nation and it is once again getting even better for the hunters that actually like to hunt.
R.S. Bodenhorn"
This is why non-resident license sales have skyrocketed.
i dont know if license sales increased ,did they.
if so, the reason is this.
a lot of states are losing their hunting land more than pa.or northcentral anyhow.
that may change too.
so, we have land to hunt.
next, most of these people have money.
better jobs than us and they spend money.
we used to be that way too until we lost our good paying union jobs.
so, they get time off and money to come.
i dont believe its do to great hunting that t5hey think we have, maybe its still better than theirs.
i will tell you this, when they come its to kill a deer or catch all fish,they will out hunt us all,they want that meat.
some are really bad people, they will pull gun on kids and dads who get to close to them ,
others are really nice people..
10-17-2008, 04:39 PM
#268
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 86
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn
As far as you stats on kills per sq. mile. Have you researched the numbers on how many hunters there are per sq. mile in PA compared to others? If the hunting is so great in Pa, Why do we have the highest decline in hunters in comparison to the other states you listed?
As far as you stats on kills per sq. mile. Have you researched the numbers on how many hunters there are per sq. mile in PA compared to others? If the hunting is so great in Pa, Why do we have the highest decline in hunters in comparison to the other states you listed?
I guesswe'll see whatRSB's response is, assuming of course that he does respond.
10-17-2008, 04:46 PM
#269
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
BTB, you are in denial. Pa's situation is far and away the worst in the country where management organization distrust and hunter low satisfaction is involved.
And seeing one post from another state, doesnt make us equal when there are dozens per day for years on Pa. And, yet again, they arent being sued, audited, petitioned and have government intervention, and most states hunters arent declining at over twice the national average as ours is......Add all those up and get back to me when you see an identical scenario elsewhere....Its not even imaginable in a responsibly managed state. And they dont have the infamous "deer wars". Thats our fine game commissions claim to fame.
And seeing one post from another state, doesnt make us equal when there are dozens per day for years on Pa. And, yet again, they arent being sued, audited, petitioned and have government intervention, and most states hunters arent declining at over twice the national average as ours is......Add all those up and get back to me when you see an identical scenario elsewhere....Its not even imaginable in a responsibly managed state. And they dont have the infamous "deer wars". Thats our fine game commissions claim to fame.
10-17-2008, 05:21 PM
#270
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
BTB, you are in denial. Pa's situation is far and away the worst in the country where management organization distrust and hunter low satisfaction is involved.
And seeing one post from another state, doesnt make us equal when there are dozens per day for years on Pa. And, yet again, they arent being sued, audited, petitioned and have government intervention, and most states hunters arent declining at over twice the national average as ours is......Add all those up and get back to me when you see an identical scenario elsewhere....Its not even imaginable in a responsibly managed state. And they dont have the infamous "deer wars". Thats our fine game commissions claim to fame.
BTB, you are in denial. Pa's situation is far and away the worst in the country where management organization distrust and hunter low satisfaction is involved.
And seeing one post from another state, doesnt make us equal when there are dozens per day for years on Pa. And, yet again, they arent being sued, audited, petitioned and have government intervention, and most states hunters arent declining at over twice the national average as ours is......Add all those up and get back to me when you see an identical scenario elsewhere....Its not even imaginable in a responsibly managed state. And they dont have the infamous "deer wars". Thats our fine game commissions claim to fame.
One post from another state? I guess you can be forgiven for thatfoolish assumptionbecause you've only been on here for less than a month. Or maybe you just domt read the stuff from other states. For example,a while back, there wereseveral Jersey guys who sounded just like you and it went on for quite some time.
And that same old twice the national average crap? Not according to the NSSF who has been tracking this stuff for 40 years in 50 states!