PA antler restriction
08-09-2008, 10:18 AM
#142
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
I didn't say you slandered anyone. I said "IF" you made false claims about someone, not that you did make false claims about someone.
However, BT calling me a liar without being able to back it up ,is in fact slanderous, but who cares, it's the internet.
I agree that whatever you were trying to say is incorrect. So you see even you and I can agree on something.
If you make claims based on stories and rumors and slander somebody based on that you are still guilty of slander even if you believed the rumors to be true.
However, BT calling me a liar without being able to back it up ,is in fact slanderous, but who cares, it's the internet.
No mens rea-no crime. Just incorrect
Creating a new identity to get around a ban is a lie
Posing asones wife to get around a ban is a lie
If my statement abovewere false you'd have a case of slander/libel
Come and get me!
08-09-2008, 10:38 AM
#143
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Phila.Pa.
Posts: 60
RE: PA antler restriction
I only joined this site a short time ago.I think I made a mistake.The amount of bickering and bullcrap,not to mention thread hijacking is more prevelant than any other site I have been on. Please, don'tget me wrong.There is a lot of intelligent,and informative info posted here,by some seemingly nice and intelligent people. So why don't you kids just exchange phone numbers and leave some space for ......... I don't know........hunting related issues. LIAR,LIAR,PANTS ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!
08-09-2008, 01:49 PM
#144
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: PA antler restriction
For those who still believe that genetics do not play a significant role in antler development here is an interesting quote from Dr. John Williams.
Although the heritability of a trait is constantly changing due to gene frequency changes caused by natural (death, migration) and artificial (harvest) selection, these estimates give a good indication of the magnitude of the influence of genetics. Heritability may be defined as "An estimation of the degree by which a characteristic is controlled by heredity as compared to the influence of the environment and other factors." It is the percent of the total variability of a characteristic (antler weight) which can be attributed to heredity (genetics). The heritability estimate for antler weight shown in Table 1 suggests that 75 percent of the variability in antler weights (mass) may be attributed to heredity.
08-09-2008, 05:10 PM
#145
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: PA antler restriction
Another clever slice of information. Please cite the source of this quote.
As you have presented it, it appears to claim that genetics are the dominant componenet and that simply is not true.
This quote can't possibly be taken seriously without any reference to age class. My bet is that age is addressed and noted as a key componenein the rest of what the good doctor said but you failed to provide. The only way that statement can make any scientififc sense is if age is held as a constant.
Without proper context, your "quoted facts" once again fail to support your point.
All the respected deer biologists I've read have likened antler develpmoent to a three legged stool. Genetics, nutrition and age. Just as a three legged stool wont work with only two legs,antler development is a failure when one component is lacking.
BTW just a side note: most wildlife biologists will also note that the doe is just as important in carryling the genetics forward that dictate antler develpoment and that it is virtually impossible to manage doe genetics in the wild for the antler growth of their offspring
Oh yeah, no responseto my prior challenge??? :
As you have presented it, it appears to claim that genetics are the dominant componenet and that simply is not true.
This quote can't possibly be taken seriously without any reference to age class. My bet is that age is addressed and noted as a key componenein the rest of what the good doctor said but you failed to provide. The only way that statement can make any scientififc sense is if age is held as a constant.
Without proper context, your "quoted facts" once again fail to support your point.
All the respected deer biologists I've read have likened antler develpmoent to a three legged stool. Genetics, nutrition and age. Just as a three legged stool wont work with only two legs,antler development is a failure when one component is lacking.
BTW just a side note: most wildlife biologists will also note that the doe is just as important in carryling the genetics forward that dictate antler develpoment and that it is virtually impossible to manage doe genetics in the wild for the antler growth of their offspring
Oh yeah, no responseto my prior challenge??? :
Creating a new identity to get around a ban is a lie
Posing asones wife to get around a ban is a lie
If my statement abovewere false you'd have a case of slander/libel
Come and get me!
Posing asones wife to get around a ban is a lie
If my statement abovewere false you'd have a case of slander/libel
Come and get me!
08-09-2008, 07:40 PM
#146
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: PA antler restriction
Obviously the study compared bucks in the same age class. It also eliminated age and nutrition as variables because it compared bucks of the same age that were fed the same diet. here is the link.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild...ers_inherited/
BTW, since you apparently don't know the definition of a lie, your challenge didn't merit a response.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild...ers_inherited/
BTW, since you apparently don't know the definition of a lie, your challenge didn't merit a response.
08-09-2008, 07:54 PM
#147
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA antler restriction
Thanks, all I needed.
[ol][*]
[/ol]
It just disproves your assertion that you can highgrade a herd, by removing one 1.5 year old buck (8-point) over another 1.5 (sub-legal).
You have proven conclusively, everything Bob and I had been saying
Thanks again...you're the best!!!
[ol][*]
[ol][*]Looking at antler points of yearling bucks provided no correlation to antler development later in life.[*]Spike-antlered yearlings were just as likely to produce large antlers later in life as 6- to 8-point yearlings.[*]The prevalence of spike-antlered yearlings was correlated to birth date. No June-born bucks produced spike antlers, while 38 percent of September-born bucks produced spike antlers.[*]Overall, the captive herd only produced spikes on 20 percent of yearling bucks, while adjacent private-land produced spikes on 60 percent of yearling bucks, the only difference being nutrition.[*]The best two sets of antlers produced over the 15 years (168 and 195 B & C points) were both 3-point bucks as yearlings.[*]You can do little or nothing to improve antler genetics except to leave obviously superior bucks in the herd[/ol]
It just disproves your assertion that you can highgrade a herd, by removing one 1.5 year old buck (8-point) over another 1.5 (sub-legal).
You have proven conclusively, everything Bob and I had been saying
Thanks again...you're the best!!!
08-09-2008, 08:11 PM
#148
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: PA antler restriction
You can do little or nothing to improve antler genetics except to leave obviously superior bucks in the herd
08-09-2008, 08:13 PM
#149
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA antler restriction
HELLO!
Do you not read???
Says that no correlation can be made to futureantler development from the first few years...
Or something to that extent.
Go back and find what I'm referring to and report back to me OK?
Do you not read???
Says that no correlation can be made to futureantler development from the first few years...
Or something to that extent.
Go back and find what I'm referring to and report back to me OK?
08-09-2008, 08:20 PM
#150
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: PA antler restriction
You should have tried to read the rest of the report because if you would have you would have found the following.
The six points you listed were the findings by Dr. Jacobson that the article by Dr. Williams refuted.
Figure 1 and Tables 2 and 3 suggest a strong relationship between the first and fourth year measurements. Although no Boone and Crockett scores are reported from the KWMA, no spike or 3-point produced 10 points at 4.5 years, while 31 of the yearlings with 4 or more points produced 10 or more points at 4.5 years (Table 2). No spike produced a total antler weight over 1000 grams at 4.5 years. Only one of the 3-point deer and one of the 4-point deer produced a total antler weight over 1,000 grams, but 40 of the 49 6-point or greater produced antler weights greater than 1,000 grams (Table 3).
The six points you listed were the findings by Dr. Jacobson that the article by Dr. Williams refuted.