bluebird2

Of course what Livbucks posted was false and misleading. Just because he thought it might be true doesn't make it factual.

Here is what I posted about the BB issue,

"That means every year we need to harvest around 215K antlerless deer. Since on average, the antlerless harvest includes 44% fawns that means that means we will be harvesting 94,600 fawns and approx. half will be BB."

Please note that i included the fact that 44% of the antlerless deer harvested are fawns and that approx. half would be BB. So contrary to your claims I included the facts the PGC uses to determine the BB harvested and I made no false claims about how the PGC would adjust antlerless allocations. My original post was based on the premise that hunters would pass on BB and harvest a mature doe instead. Then you raised the issue of adjusting doe tag allocations the following year.

bluebird2

livbucks

Way back, the story was that he was an orphaned fawn. I heard it so many times and so did many people that I know. It became common knowledge to many people. Now, was the story changed along the line? Did somebody alter the reality to get everyone's interest? Was he taken from the wild illegally and then the history now re-written because of legal issues? I don't know the reasoning. What I do know from recent research is that there is a documented genetic lineage STARTING with Goliath, but I can find no reference to any lineage PRIOR to Goliath. You would think that if there was breeding going on that was producing such an incredible specimen, that the sire of Goliath would be documented as well, or siblings of Goliath would have had offspring that were documented. Only the things that are written can be researched, word of mouth, rumor, the spoken word, cannot. I have been checking and am puzzled by the very limited info that is on the net about this incredible whitetail. You would think, with all the fame and fortune that giant antlers attract, that there would be more to find. The whole story seems clouded in mystery now.
Had the deer not been stolen from it's owner, there would be even less to find. That seems funny in this day of fascination with big bucks.
I related something from my memory. Something that I don't walk around thinking of as a rule, relating to a topic being discussed. Actually it was a tad off topic, but that is how conversations go on here.
If I was incorrect then so be it, so what. I have not been able to substantiate DeadDeer's claim that I was, other than a single quote that the deer was bought from some unnamed other party. I surely did not fabricate anything, but related what I had heard, and what obviously many other's heard then at the time. Big Deal.
I'm sure that somewhere, there is a person that can set the record straight. I welcome it.
Pure semantics going on here, over something the is actually irrelevant to the agenda. The man of many handles has been trying for several years, YES YEARS, to discredit me and others. If he proves me wrong on this then great, he can bask in the glow of victory. Whatever.
You can bet I'm not so worried about it that I change my handle.

BTBowhunter

First of all, thanks!. All those were taken on private land in 2B and within the same square mile. All the land I hunt in that area is now posted but two of those bucks were taken on land that was unposted at the time. All four had home territory that included private but unposted ground that gets hunted regularly. Many of my sightings were from the side of the area that is open to the public. The droptine buck was killed on halloween and had been hit above the spine by a broadhead and was healing over. The 3.5 was taken in the second week of gun season with a crossbow and he had a superficial slug woundthrough his front leg under the chest that was beginning to heal.The 5.5was taken Jan 12 and although I saw him from the vehicle and before the season, I hunted him hard and I never saw him before Christmas when actually hunting for him.In saw him regularly, and eventually killed himin the late archery season.The other 2.5 was shot on on Oct 27 I had seen him three times on my property and twice on the public side before that. I even showed him to buddie from the truck on the public side.

I am positively sure I watched three of the 4 grow up and feel very strongly that I passed the 2.5 that has the mule deer looking horns several times the year before. My observations are based on physical characteristics, behavior patterns and even posture and attitude of the deer as I hunted them over the years. No, I cant say for absolute sure that they were indeed the same deer but I'd still bet the farm on it!

Hunting pressure on the adjacent properties over the years has been very heavy at times but has gotten lighter the last few years.

The area is on the fringe of suburbia with a very large tract of timber adjacent. No agriculture but a very good and large oak forest and of course the gardens and shrubs. No supplemental feeding or food plots. I did place minerals (calcium and phosphorus ) out in February several places within their core area but away from my stands for a couple of years and the biggest one was taken one of those years but I that was a few years ago.

BTBowhunter

I find it hilarious that the one accusing you and I of being liars for relaying a story as told to us as well as to many othersis the very guy who has had no less than 4 screen names here and even came back under his wifes name once to skirt permanent bans here that were at least in part due to..... repeatedly distorting the facts in his posts

I think the mods have better things to do and have simply given up on policing the ranks for banned members who manage to sneak back in.

bluebird2

Livbucks did not say he was relaying a story or reporting a rumor. He stated that it was a fact that the record buck was an orphaned wild PA deer.
That is what he said with no qualifiers or conditions. If you make claims based on stories and rumors and slander somebody based on that you are still guilty of slander even if you believed the rumors to be true.

The fact is Goliath was probably the product of a genetic anomaly and it is possible that neither one of his parents had exceptional genetic potential for antler development. Sometime strange things happen as a result of the reproductive process such as 2 headed calves or calves with 5 legs.
But, the bottom line is that genetics were not a problem in our PA deer herd before ARs , and time will tell if they become a problem in the future due to ARs.

livbucks

I know, I admit it. I'm no good at wording things with escape clauses, so I can always have a way out. That's the difference between you and me. You know when your lieing, and plan accordingly.
A person who believes they are being truthful wouldn't consider it necessary.
No mens rea-no crime. Just incorrect.
Your days are numbered under that handle, and it's only August!

livbucks

Your just wayyy out in space now.
That is a legal term, and I'm not sure you should be using those things.
The mere stating thatI slandered somebody, when clearly by legal definition I did not, is slander in itself though. Well, being on the net, I think I could sell it as libel.

BTBowhunter

I wouldnt worry much Greg. It's not slander or libel unless it's not true

I beleive its a true statement when I say you and I have never had to change our name, use our wifes name, oreven make up a new name just to post here

Betyou can't say that can ya Bluebird?

bluebird2

I didn't say you slandered anyone. I said "IF" you made false claims about someone, not that you did make false claims about someone.
However, BT calling me a liar without being able to back it up ,is in fact slanderous, but who cares, it's the internet.
I agree that whatever you were trying to say is incorrect. So you see even you and I can agree on something.