License Fee Increases in Pa
02-01-2002, 03:15 PM
#41
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Allentown Pa USA
Posts: 76
RE: License Fee Increases in Pa
pinwhl , you would think a better system of accurate counts would be in place BUT remember this is the PGc at issue here. Hunters in Pa have nearly begged for check stations, smaller DMU to no avail. The report card system in place is about as accurate as asking women what their weight is. you'll get a different answer each time and none are likey to be the truth
02-01-2002, 07:05 PM
#42
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: License Fee Increases in Pa
Ledgen LS-
Haha, you're correct on the statement about the numbers and women's weight, unfortunately that is all you currently have, however. I don't know what will happen, guess all we can do is wait and hope, but if there is not ast least a fair shot at getting a tag I and my crew won't be bothering to purchase licenses down there this year. If not we may possibly try NY, I hear Westchester county is Archery-only and pretty good from friends who hunt there. One thing is for certain, we'll be somewhere! Good shooting, PA
Haha, you're correct on the statement about the numbers and women's weight, unfortunately that is all you currently have, however. I don't know what will happen, guess all we can do is wait and hope, but if there is not ast least a fair shot at getting a tag I and my crew won't be bothering to purchase licenses down there this year. If not we may possibly try NY, I hear Westchester county is Archery-only and pretty good from friends who hunt there. One thing is for certain, we'll be somewhere! Good shooting, PA
02-03-2002, 09:25 AM
#43
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Beaver Falls Pa. USA
Posts: 192
RE: License Fee Increases in Pa
It is my feeling that if we have to pay for an archery tag then we should be issued an anterless permit good for anywhere in the state. They say we have an over population problem then let us bowhunters help by giving us a little something for the extra fee we have to spend.
God Bless & Good Hunting
LM/NAHC
Member NRA
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God Bless & Good Hunting
LM/NAHC
Member NRA
Member P&Y CLUB
Member Ducks Unlimited
02-03-2002, 11:20 AM
#44
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Allentown Pa USA
Posts: 76
RE: License Fee Increases in Pa
BBH and how do you profess we account for the unknown numbers of anterless deer killed in the overall scheme of management.With no check stations/ or not takeing too many doe in areas of depressed deer populations?your archery tag (the same one I buy) pays for the opportunity to archery hunt, as well as the administration of game management,ie. WCO,administrative fees,etc.
02-06-2002, 06:21 AM
#45
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: License Fee Increases in Pa
Ledgen LS-
It is a relative issue when speaking of the unknown numbers of does. First, if archers are given report cards to send in, you will get the same kinds of accounts that you currently do with bucks--those that feel like sending them in will send them in. Second, in areas that get over hunted, the natural effect kicks in-- when there are less deer, there are less hunters in that area the following year. There are no fences keeping deer cooped up, they are free to go anywhere in the State. Therefore when the area that is "lean" one year doesn't get hunted, it gives highly-pressured deer in other areas a chance to escape and re-populate this un-pressured area. It just a natural thing that has been done throughout the ages until someone thought that it became barnyard hunting. The only way for over-hunted areas not to naturally re-populate over a given time would be to fence off individual counties and areas throuout the state. Until then the deer will naturally go to unpressured areas, and hunters will hunt the heaviest-populated ones. The PGC can get a ROUGH estimate of both population and kill ratios, but we have to be realistic, the science is just that, ROUGH. Mandatory check stations are the only true way of getting an accurate account of all deer taken. Anything less is "estimated". So basically that arguement just doesn't hold water in PA's case. All archers SHOULD be given an opportunity at either sex until they decide to implement some sort of accurate standard of counting all deer(check stations) if they really want to get into it that deep. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
It is a relative issue when speaking of the unknown numbers of does. First, if archers are given report cards to send in, you will get the same kinds of accounts that you currently do with bucks--those that feel like sending them in will send them in. Second, in areas that get over hunted, the natural effect kicks in-- when there are less deer, there are less hunters in that area the following year. There are no fences keeping deer cooped up, they are free to go anywhere in the State. Therefore when the area that is "lean" one year doesn't get hunted, it gives highly-pressured deer in other areas a chance to escape and re-populate this un-pressured area. It just a natural thing that has been done throughout the ages until someone thought that it became barnyard hunting. The only way for over-hunted areas not to naturally re-populate over a given time would be to fence off individual counties and areas throuout the state. Until then the deer will naturally go to unpressured areas, and hunters will hunt the heaviest-populated ones. The PGC can get a ROUGH estimate of both population and kill ratios, but we have to be realistic, the science is just that, ROUGH. Mandatory check stations are the only true way of getting an accurate account of all deer taken. Anything less is "estimated". So basically that arguement just doesn't hold water in PA's case. All archers SHOULD be given an opportunity at either sex until they decide to implement some sort of accurate standard of counting all deer(check stations) if they really want to get into it that deep. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
02-06-2002, 09:06 AM
#46
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: License Fee Increases in Pa
Loc-
I understand and respect your points of view, but we must agree to disagree I guess to some extent. Yes, traditional hunting camps and generations of hunters going to them have been around since day one. BUT, hunters are not going to keep going back to a place that has no deer. This is the natural effect I was speaking of. I know the NC part of the State gets the most pressure, but I also know that the only way hunters will stay in the same area that has no deer is because they are either stupid or their primary purpose is not to hunt, but to get away from things. Those of us that DO take our hunting seriously and scout an area will quickly realize when there are few deer around, and move to another spot. Common sense.
I firmly believe that state revenue monies can be had by increasing the original license and eliminate those lottery problems in one fell swoop. I also believe that no matter how it is currently run, until PA sets up check stations all you are doing is generating "estimated" figures, and all "overabundance" or "lack-of" in certain areas is basically hearsay. So until the state decides it really WANTS to find out an accurate assessment of what the TRUE kill ratios are by opening check stations, there really is no basis for implementing restrictions on does until people just do not see enough of them. Every hunter I speak with complains about the overabundance of does in there hunting area in PA. Every one. I do not believe we should kill them all, no, but I do believe there is currently no reason to shut down hunting them to a few mere tags, especially when your "professional" clearly states there is a problem. Just my own thoughts, PW12
I understand and respect your points of view, but we must agree to disagree I guess to some extent. Yes, traditional hunting camps and generations of hunters going to them have been around since day one. BUT, hunters are not going to keep going back to a place that has no deer. This is the natural effect I was speaking of. I know the NC part of the State gets the most pressure, but I also know that the only way hunters will stay in the same area that has no deer is because they are either stupid or their primary purpose is not to hunt, but to get away from things. Those of us that DO take our hunting seriously and scout an area will quickly realize when there are few deer around, and move to another spot. Common sense.
I firmly believe that state revenue monies can be had by increasing the original license and eliminate those lottery problems in one fell swoop. I also believe that no matter how it is currently run, until PA sets up check stations all you are doing is generating "estimated" figures, and all "overabundance" or "lack-of" in certain areas is basically hearsay. So until the state decides it really WANTS to find out an accurate assessment of what the TRUE kill ratios are by opening check stations, there really is no basis for implementing restrictions on does until people just do not see enough of them. Every hunter I speak with complains about the overabundance of does in there hunting area in PA. Every one. I do not believe we should kill them all, no, but I do believe there is currently no reason to shut down hunting them to a few mere tags, especially when your "professional" clearly states there is a problem. Just my own thoughts, PW12
02-06-2002, 10:03 AM
#47
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: License Fee Increases in Pa
Your doe tag is a tool to manage with. Use it if you need to, don't if you don't. It's time hunters get together and take some personal responsibility in the management of the heard. The state is now giving you the tools, you need to decide what's right for your land.
If some of you expect Alt to make a management unit out of your land, or your neighbors, or whatever small area you want effected, you don't understand how big your state really is.
Also, deer check stations are for earn-a-buck-programs, success patches, and overtime pay for state workers-not management tools.
Maybe they should try what KY does. You have to call in within 24 hours to register your deer. They give you a confermation #, and if the deer is found without one, you are in violation. You can actually call in, go to the KY website, and see you deer added to the county harvest figures within seconds of your phone call-it's broken down for bucks and does as well.
PA is a bargain for out of state hunters. The rifle tag should just be a flat fee, as well as everything else. In MI where I live it is $150.00, I believe, for an archery tag, or a rifle tag-not together. KY is cheap also.
If you can afford to hunt out-of-state, buy a gun, ammo, have several hundred dollars of clothing on when going into the woods, food, a place to stay, gas, time from work, whatever, whats $150.00 for a tag?
At the same time though, how much money is spent in a state by NR hunters? I know in my area people like to try and gouge the snowmobilers, but there is a point at which it comes back to hurt them. Compared to Res. hunters, how much do NR hunters spend for a week of hunting?
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
If some of you expect Alt to make a management unit out of your land, or your neighbors, or whatever small area you want effected, you don't understand how big your state really is.
Also, deer check stations are for earn-a-buck-programs, success patches, and overtime pay for state workers-not management tools.
Maybe they should try what KY does. You have to call in within 24 hours to register your deer. They give you a confermation #, and if the deer is found without one, you are in violation. You can actually call in, go to the KY website, and see you deer added to the county harvest figures within seconds of your phone call-it's broken down for bucks and does as well.
PA is a bargain for out of state hunters. The rifle tag should just be a flat fee, as well as everything else. In MI where I live it is $150.00, I believe, for an archery tag, or a rifle tag-not together. KY is cheap also.
If you can afford to hunt out-of-state, buy a gun, ammo, have several hundred dollars of clothing on when going into the woods, food, a place to stay, gas, time from work, whatever, whats $150.00 for a tag?
At the same time though, how much money is spent in a state by NR hunters? I know in my area people like to try and gouge the snowmobilers, but there is a point at which it comes back to hurt them. Compared to Res. hunters, how much do NR hunters spend for a week of hunting?
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
