Matt / PA

As far south as you possibly can get.........Across the river from Cape Giradeau , MO (I think Union Co, IL?)
I go out each year and stay with Greg/MO at his place in Jackson, MO and we hunt public land in the area.
I actually leave private land in PA to hunt PUBLIC land in IL.

Lanse couche couche

I'm about 100 miles northeast of that. And i agree that south is much better. You get within 100 miles of Chicago and suddenly lots of spots in PA wont seem so bad.

BuckAlley

[:'(]

J Pike

Here in PA. our bow hunter #'s has been on a steady decline from 340,000 archers to around 270,000 in 2007.
Matt when I started hunting in OH. 7 years ago I had the same misguided belief's about the cross bow as you currently do but have since changed my mind.
OH. is the perfect example of why crossbows should be permitted in PA.
The crossbow has only been a positive for the state of OH. not a neg.
It is not the evil killing maching that you and other's believe it to be. Pike

Matt / PA

Ok.......so why is it a POSITIVE for PA's bowhunters and our deer management plan?

What is going to make this a GOOD thing for PA?
We already have all the hunters we're gonna have, any new crossbow hunters we get are going to come from a percentage of regular bowhunters and the rest will be guys who currently rifle hunt only. We're not going to be suddenly bringing new people into the sport of hunting.

So someone tell me why we SHOULD have them what am I gonna gain and what are the current bowhunter's of PA gonna gain from this? (Aside from revenue to the state and crossbow manufacturers?)

Everybody from all over keeps telling me it's a good thing for PA and theymust know why.......somebody tell me WHY we need this? We're not the ones pushing for it. Tell me where the pro-crossbow people are lining the PGC meetings asking and begging for this? They're not, crossbow manufacturers have historically been the ONLY people speaking up in favor of wanting crossbows in PA, not the hunters. Where's the outcry and argument and all these "Facts" backing up why we need them? They never seem to get presented because NOBODY is asking for it.
We're being dictated to under the increasing liberal pressure and manufacturer dollars plain and simple, and in typical liberal fashion we're fed a false premise and then forced to defend ourselves against it.

It's gonna change the harvest dynamic, almost certainly shorten the season and not introduce any new HUNTERS, just transpose them into an already competitive situation in what's supposed to be a quiet solitary type sport.

I haven't heard one valid argument for why this is needed in PA only that it seems to work ok in a handful of unrelated states so we NEED it.

WHY? where are all these pro crossbow people to represent this sentiment and need for crossbows at the PGC meetings?? They never seem to speak up until it's being argued out by people from anotehr state on a forum message board.

Someone provide me with factswhy we need ithere and "Because it works in Arkansas" sure as heck aint gonna cut it. One of you out of staters wanna tell ME how you KNOW things will be just like Arkansas or Ohio?
You "Know" because you use or support a crossbow and don't HAVE any facts to back up why we should have them here.

I'm sick of defending something that everyone else seems to want and think we need without anyone providing the facts why. You want to just play a game of Russian Rullette with our season, enjoyment level and deer herd because "Hey it works for Virginia"

mhogan

"Here in PA. our bow hunter #'s has been on a steady decline from 340,000 archers to around 270,000 in 2007."

Pike, that was due to the license jumping from $5.25 to $15.25. It's easy to look up.

Someplaces can handle crossbows without any negative effects. Like Ohio and much of Canada. Low hunting pressure and you rarely see another hunter.

Just don't call it bowhunting.

PA is stilldifferent today.

Someday it might not matter here either. With hunters so focused on the need for high deer numbers and the state having to reduce the herd because of negative impacts on many things people are upset about, they're hanging it up. And peoplehave so many other interests, so hunter numbers are falling here too. We may be even less of a minority shortly.

It might end up a free for all with the remaining hunters, sharp shooters and birth control all working to manage animal populations. Hunters will have liberal limits and weapon choices then.

J Pike

Mark that is my point we are losing bow hunter's in PA. wile our neighbors to the west are increasing. If Crossbow can help save our sport and way of life I am 100% for it. The more bow hunters we have the better!!
OH. now has 300,000 bow hunter's we have 270,000 +,
During the 2006 4 month long OH. bowseason which is each & every sunday is included. OH. bowhunter's took 67,912 deer. 38,489 by crossbow and 29,423 by long bow.
How Many deer did PA. bow hunter's harvest in 2006 with a much shorter season less hunter's and sunday hunting is not legal? ( Not that I need to mention that the top 2 days each and every week during the OH. bow season is sat. and sun.)
I would also like to point out that OH. has half as many deer as PA. does.
Making the crossbow legal in PA. is a win,win situation for the herd, the hunters, the PGC. and the non hunting public that you love to mention in any type of deer mgmt. discussion Pike

mhogan

To me, calling the crossbow something bowhunters use is like calling the in-line something flintlock hunters use.

They weapons are too different to be considered similar just because they both use limbs and stings in them. The scope, shooting it off a rail/rest and not having to draw it in the presence of game being the most significant. That drawing it is big during that nerve jangling time. It's a big time to get busted by the deer. The scope, shooting it off a rail and not having to draw it in the presence of game being the most significant. That drawing it is big during that nerve jangling time. It's a big time to get busted by the deer.

I'm sure you've gotten out hunting in PA enough, or talked to people, to see herd reduction did occur in most areas. Many that had pellet count densities near 40 DPSM pre-HR are now reporting 15 DPSM. The high densities today are around our major cities and the crossbow is already legal there.

Buck Hunter 1

Matt, love your enthusiam on the subject and pasion for compound. HERE is the reason I can say or feel I have a say in the legalization of the Xbow in PA/ I buy a license! I have a say and a vote when I purchase that peice of paper. My monies support the PGC as much if not more than yours, in fact I love the idea that Xbow manufacturers are screaming at the PGC meetings. That is why I pay them a price so that they can lobby for me. That is there job!
If you really want o go one more, I pay taxes on a cottage and acreage in PA, I have a say as to what I want to hunt with. Do you think because you live in PA you have the ultimate saY??? The PGC is it's own body and cost center. I buy a license I basically am buying a peice of stock which gives me the righjt to have a say. And before you go off about lout of state hunters, look at the monetary support fron OOS license sales not to mention supplies etc. We will get the Xbow my friend amse as you got the compound!So unless you can tell me WHY , I should not get a say, and a vote in the Xbow decsion I will buy more Xbow equipment, which will buy my lobbying support at the PGC meetings, letting them (PAPGC) realize an additionalrevenue stream that the PGC so sorely needs according to them! Maybe then they will back off the hunters and do what is right in game conservation!

Matt / PA

No offense, you at least have a point as a license holder in teh state but again.............says the guy from OHIO. (who probably already uses a crossbow and simply wants to bring it here)

WHERE ARE THE PA BOWHUNTERS HUNTERS ASKING FOR CROSSBOWS?
That's my point.

And since I'll give you at least the fact that you buy an out of state license, tell me exactly how you know that crossbows will work here? Tell me how you think they'll affect the herd dynaic and harvest in the Big woods vs. the Suburbs, any affect on hunter numbers and crowding below I80 or above it? Is it going to shorten a season for us in a place where we ALREADY can't hunt on Sundays? What is the affect going to be on Southern State game lands where people are high and game is low already? Where in the state do you think it will help and where do you think it could potentially cause problems?

Tell me how you know this is good for PA beyond you feel entitled because you buy a license in a state that already allows you to use one so you want to use it here, because it will be NICE for YOU?