PA early muzzle loader season
 

Has anyone heard what the deal is with the 2003 early doe season, will inlines and percussion cap ml' s be allowed or is it still flintlock.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

The early does season in 2002 - you were allowed to use inlines. The late season was flintlock only, check out the PGC' s website ----.>Pennsylvania Game Commision

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

Thanks, wasn' t sure. I guess I can go ahead and buy that inline now that I know I' ll be legal in the early season.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

With the same thoughts in mind I purchased my first " muzzleloader" a week or so ago. It is an Knight inline. If I really enjoy shooting it I might just take it out for rifle season as well.

I am still unsure how much I am going to use it as I do not want to run into a situation where I have the inline in hand during that October season and then have a dandy buck walk right up to me....:(

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

I hear you, I would really hate to be in that situation, especially if it was a really nice buck. I' ve been putting off buying a muzzleloader because I really didn' t want to spend the money on a flintlock. I' m not concerned about hunting the late season, so why spend it.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

I already shoot a flintlock and it has me hooked on blackpowder. I am lucky and have a TC Firestorm so I plan to purchase an inline to use during rifle season. I have everything to go with the gun already.

However my first love is archery. I am not quite sure how I feel about the early season. I understand the reason the game commisssion is trying this, but the extra hunters in the wood make the archery season tougher.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

I tend to agree with you....especially on public land where hunter participation is not regulated. My only real complaint about the current management plan and coordination of seasons is that archers only have 1 Saturday/1 full week to themselves. This is deterimental to the outcome of the hunt for folks that hunt pressured public land.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

PABowhunter
I don' t understand how you can say 1 week and 1 Saturday.

Sat. October 4 thorugh Friday Oct. 17 it is archery only. That is nearly 2 full weeks and 2 Saturdays of acrhery. Then one week including 2 saturdays of the interuptions(Early muzzleloading season and Jr. Sr. Antlerless)

Then nearly 3 weeks including 3 Saturdays of archery only yet again Monday Oct.27- sat Nov. 15. Which this time frame is just about guaranteed to be the closest to peak rutting time in PA and only archers get to hunt during this time.

I call the early muzzleloading an interuption for that reason it brings more people into the woods and causes changes in deer patterns and pressures them more than archers would like. Is it better to eliminate the does before the rut? yes there is a benefit there. I won' t argue that. I will say I think the fact that archery requires a ton of patience, skill and scouting and it all goes to crap once the deer get pressured is frustrating. Does the added pressure take all the patterning learned from scouting and early archery hunting days and toss it out the window? to a certain degree it does.

Does that effect me? No I have the privellege to hunt on private land where I don' t have to deal with added pressure. But If the time comes around when I can' t hunt the private land I will understand the frustrations of the added pressure all too well.

Do I use my muzzleloader in early season? Yes I hunt the morning archery and afternoon I go to public land with the smokepole.

Without getting much further off-topic I think the use of in-lines is great. (I prefer my flintlock) but if it brings more excitement to hunting and doesn' t become detrimental to the deer herd as a whole then great. A few less does that probably aren' t bred yet is a good thing. I mean we could discuss the management plan in great detail I am a fan of the AR but not the mangement plan and we would probably have a great thread but the issue on this thread is early muzzleloading season. It is kind of nice to be able to sit without freezing my rear-end off and use the muzzleloader.
I wish more people would still hunt in the early season and maybe PGC should make driving deer illegal during early season out of respect for the archers. Can we all co-exist afield during this early season? You bet with a little mutual respect we can all have a great time during October.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

cableguy,

The first Saturday that the season starts and the subsequent week up until the following Friday is what I was making reference to. That second Saturday is when the PGC introduced the youth pheasant hunt last year and unless I am mistaken it will be held the same day this year. Do not misunderstand me, I am all for getting kids in the woods but with the kids comes the parent...and the uncle..and the uncle' s buddy..and...so on and so forth. Ofcourse, only the child is hunting but the mere presence of the others is enough to disturb the deer enough for them to stray from their normal travel patterns..and that disturbance does not just disappear once the youth pheasant hunt is over. I believe it takes at least a week for things to settle down to the point where the deer can again be somewhat predictable....and, ofcourse, at that point it is time for the muzzleloader/youth rifle hunt to occur followed by the small game season.

So, in essence, bowhunters who hunt pressured public land in Pennsylvania really only have the first week of the season to hunt in an environment that is conducive to the effective use of the weapon that the season was created for.

And though I am sure that I sound like I am complaining, lets not forget that the early muzzleloader season will be starting the same day of the " proposed" new early extension of the regular small game season. That will mean quite a few hunters toting firearms in the woods all at the same time. There might even be more than on the first day of the regular firearms deer season.

Personally, I think that there are too many seasons crammed into that little October/November window of opportunity. All of the varying seasons need to be spread out more from September through the end of January in order to be fair to the sportsman that utilize them as well as an effective management tool for the game that we pursue.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

Sorry my area has so few pheasents and not much small game that it doesn' t really affect me. I see pheasents few and far between.

I agree with you 100% about to many seasons being crammed into oct/nov time frame. And our group doesn' t small game till late seasons after flintlock ends because we value our time in archery. No sense sitting all day only to have another person come marching through with a dog and shotgun.

I think PGC should try to balance the seasons out a bit better there has to be a way where small game can co-exist but no infringe upon archery. One of the few solutions to that would be to open September up to archery. Or maybe have a break in small game for the first 2 weeks of november to allow for archers to enjoy the rut. It isn' t like the small game season is short. And being a few years away from losing a ton of hunting property to development I can relate cause I will be back on SGL with you and others.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

Cableguy,

I think we are on the same page here and I do agree with your suggestion. Starting archery a good two weeks earlier than the normal starting date would give archers the uninterrupted environment that is essential for the sport to be productive and effective.

Something else I just thought of......Are there any " overlaps" during the regular deer firearms seasons?

;)

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

No I don' t believe there is a single overlap of the regular firearms season. Everything else is pretty much closed except furbearer, coyote, racoon and fox.
And they will never mess with the goose that lays the golden egg.

I am sure PGC will protect the rifle season and dare not tinker with it being the only season in session. And with sales of archery licenses down 42,464 since 1998 It doesn' t show that archers are a growth area for them and muzzleloading is sure to get a huge jump in licenses with the initiation of the early season. Although If enough archers inquired about the possibilty of opening it a few weeks earlier so that we can enjoy the time afield it could happen. It won' t happen overnight but it could if requests persisted long enough.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

I have to tell you from the perspective of hunting PA as a nonresident, the inclusion of percussion caps and inlines muzzle loaders will probably do more to generate money for the PGC and the counties involved for the additional permits. I personally love to get out in the woods while there is still color and your not having to bundle up. That would bring up another question though, with the new antlerless zones going into effect what will the changes be for acquiring doe permits?

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

Do not get me wrong, I like the idea of the early muzzleloader season and agree with it from a deer management perspective though I would personally like to see it in the last week of October instead of the 3rd week though.

I would also not mind seeing a one week crossbow season to be held the week after archery ends and two weeks before rifle begins.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

PAbowhunter.. i know that feeling of being able to take a doe liek that....but mine was during the youth rifle season....nice big 8pt...i seen him both days i was out 2 years ago...man i wish i coulda taken him...but thats ok..just seeing him at 40 yards was more than enough for me...i was looking for a doe following him lol..he stuck around for about 10 minutes..than the wind changed and he ran off blowing away...and stopped at 65yds and still couldnt figure out what was wrong with the area..then went below us on a bench...nice buck..does seem hard to come by during that season...but maybe its because we hunted out normal spot that my dad always buck hunted and thats what normally in that area..my dad is getting an inline or a percussion for that season....i will be carrying a bow...good luck to you guys...im sure it will be a nice season...always a nice time of year to be hunting...

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

I like the idea of the early muzzleloader season as well my concern with placing it late in October would be that the closer to the peak rutting time it is that bucks spend the energy breeding does only to have them shot. If it is to be a management tool, I think we are slightly better off having it early in october hopefully in theory that the does taken during that time aren' t bred.
It still doesn' t guarantee a bred doe won' t be taken in rifle or late muzzleloading season but at least it provides a pool of harvested does with a higher probabilty that are not pregnant.

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

Sometimes, it seems like the PGC is more about generating money than it is generating a quality hunt. I know it is expensive to manage all the wildlife in a state like PA. At least the peak-time for the rut is only for archers :D

RE: PA early muzzle loader season
 

Cableguy,

I understand your reasoning but tend to disagree with it slightly for two reasons. One, from most of the studies I have seen that were done on PA deer most of the actual breeding occurs within the very last few days of October into and including most of the first 2/3rds of the month of November. Having the early season in the third week or October, not to mention the fourth, should still, theoretically, be early enough for bucks not to waste too much energy. :)

Second, the early you put it in the month of October the more it has an impact on the effectiveness of the archery season for the reasons I mentioned early. I tend to look at it as " Taking some tylenol because you have a headache but then banging your head off the wall a few time afterwards." In other words, it might prove beneficial but then it will hurt other game management methods unless those methods are given an alternative time frame.

PAhunter86,

You might want to revise that statement to read something along the lines of " only for archers on unpressured public or private land." as I cannot use any form of rut hunting specific techniques in the area that I hunt because of all the pressure created from the small game hunters. Gun hunters might as well be allowed to hunt during the rut in my area as the impact that small game hunters have is just as detrimental in the sense of having an undisturbed environment.

Not trying to be argumentative at all but rather pointing out another facet of how the overlapping of seasons affects the areas that I hunt.