outdoorstom

Hi, I just started using this site, lot's of great reading and discussions here! I knew there was a pilot program in place in a couple of DMU's where a buck must have a minimum of 3 points on one side to be legal. I emailed the DEC the other day asking about any upcomingantler restrictions in my area.....I've attached my email and their reply. Any thoughts on this?

Good evening,

I live in WMU 6A, and was wondering if we can expect to see some type of
antler restrictions in place sometime soon. I practice QDM, so I don't shoot
small bucks, but my neighbors do. I would love to see something in place.
Personally, I believe width would be a better method than points. Are there
any public meetings scheduled for this area on the subject?

Thanks for your time,

Tom Rausch

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Farquhar" <[email protected]>
To: "tom" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Stephen Litwhiler" <[email protected]>; "Bill Gordon"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: Antler Restrictions


Tom,
Your email was sent to me for a reply.
We are currently evaluating antler restrictions in a number of ways. A three
year pilot area in the Catskill region has been under a point restrictions,
which is being studied both by results and by hunter satisfaction. Hunter
surveys in a portion of central New York, and a broader statewide survey are
also under analysis. The statewide survey includes northern New York
hunters, and should provide insight on how desireable an anlter restriction
might be.

Specific to WMU 6A, we are aware of interest in establishing a standard
which differs from the three inch minimum we now have. We are also aware of
hunters who would prefer no changes. At this time we do not have any public
meetings scheduled locally (or elsewhere) on this topic, but may choose to
do so following full results of the other surveys.

As you have noted, there is more than one way to establish an anlter
criteria, and, depending on the desired result (protect all/some yearlings,
two year olds, etc.), the standard chosen will vary. Additionally, because
deer growth rates and antler development differs around the state, a "one
size fits all" approach will not yield similar results in all places. These
are the kinds of discussions we will need to have in order to ensure any
changes are accepted, effective and well understood by all involved.

I hope this information is helpful in that much related to antler standards
is as much a social preference to hunters as it is biological. From where I
sit, the discussion looks like it will move forward, and in the not too
distant future.

Jim


Jim Farquhar
Wildlife Biologist
NYSDEC, Region 6
Watertown, NY 13601
(315) 785-2261

Charlie P

My opinion let people hunt for what they want . You want to see bigger bucks in your area pass on small ones. If someone else decides to shoot it well, that still leaves one more in the woods.

I think they could accomplish the same thing with a one buck rule, no more multiple buck tags.

NYS kills some very nice deer every year. AR are a feel good response as far as I'm concerned. Your still killing off most of your deer with great potential before thier time.

outdoorstom

IMO, AR will help the health of the herd.I wouldn't like a one buck rule, the season would be over as far as buck hunting is concerned, in just a few days. I saw 8deer on opening day of bow this year, 6 of them werebucks. 2 - 8's, 2 -4's,and the rest spikes. It would be nice to see more mature deer in the woods. Why not shoot a doe for meat instead of a spike? Opening day was an exception this year, overall this season, I saw tons more does than bucks. Our buck to doe ratio is way out of whack and at least on our property we're exceeding the carrying capacity of the land.

Charlie P

Explain how.

That would be your choice, as it would be for a guy to shoot a spike and and his buck hunting. Why pull the trigger on two six points in one year?

Why should you be able to force that on someone. Why not shoot a doe instead of a 7 pt?


Ohio and a few other states use the one buck rule and they kill plenty of mature bucks.

outdoorstom

[quote]ORIGINAL: Charlie P

Explain how.

Along with antler restrictions, the harvesting of more does would take place. The deer herd in this area exceeds the carrying capacity of the land. This hurts the health of the herd.

That would be your choice, as it would be for a guy to shoot a spike and and his buck hunting. Why pull the trigger on two six points in one year?

Who's saying I would shoot two six pointers? I shot an 8 pointer on opening day of bow this year, then didn't shoot another buck. I did shoot 2 does though.

Why should you be able to force that on someone. Why not shoot a doe instead of a 7 pt?

Good question....why not? If it's an immature 7 point, why not let it walk so it can reach it's potential?

Charlie P

Then you need more doe permits, AR alone have little to nothing to do with a healthy herd.

Not saying you would, alot of people would to fill their tags.



Cool, How old was that 8 point?

I proably would but I don't care if the guy down the ridge shoots him. Let's use the 8 pt you shot as an example,it would still be legal with AR's in placeif it was 2.5 yrs old it would far from it's potential right? Even at 3.5 it still is far from it's potential. Now lets take the 7 pt and make it a six with no brow( buddie shot one just like this this year)tines for arguments sake and it's mature. If the state decides it a 4 pt per side area you can't shoot it,even though it's genes aren't the best thing for the area.

Steve863

I do not want antler restrictions of any sort. I hunt in a unit that hadn't given out doe permits for a couple of years and issued a very limited amount this past year. If I was only allowed to shoot a buck that was a six or an eight point, I would have little reason to hunt at all. Many hunters don't care about antlers. What difference do they make anyway, other than give a hunter something more to brag about? The state should be in charge of controlling deer numbers and NOT to manage a herd for trophy hunters. In my opinion it is nothing but baloney that antler restriction rules help out deer herds. It is nothing but a self-serving theory devised by trophy hunters and little else. As I said, the states real purpose of a hunting season is to control deer numbers. In the scheme of things it doesn't matter one ounce how many antler points a buck might have when it gets gunned down by the hunter except of course to the trophy hunter who now thinks he has something to brag with. I myself would have NO problem with a one buck rule in NYS. I find it funny how some that want antler restrictions at the same time don't like the one buck rule. That tells me all I need to know right there.

outdoorstom

Good discussion Charlie.....you make some great points! For sure, AR isn't the answer to all the problems. Antler width can be used also, and I personally think it's better than AR. Neither one is perfect. The perfect solution would be to age the deer before shooting. Depending on the situation (how much time before the shot opportunity disappears) this can be difficult and is asking a lot of people.

The 8 pointer Ishot was only 2 1/2, and definitely had more potential. I was happy to take him with my bow though. I made the decision not to shoot another buck last seasonunless it was at least 3 1/2. I saw a few nice bucks after that, but none were at least that old, so I let them go.

jf5

[:@]AR restrictions are not trophy restrictions. Big differences between QDM and Trophy Mgt

Charlie P

I don't think you could implement a width restriction, that would be nightmare.

Steve, Made a good point about numbers, the state has enough of a problem getting an accurate count on what was killed.

Things I like about the one buck rule is.
[ol][*]It gives the hunter the option to shoot whatever makes him happy. It's not forceing any type of restriction on what type of buck you shoot.[*]It makes him use his doe permits to fill the freezer.Which helps the herd as far as a natural balence. Deer aren't born at a 8 doe to 1 buck ratio.Every year you here about guy's shooting their two bucks and not filling doe tags.[*]It will ina very short peroid of time achieve what AR's are intended to do let bucks get some age on them.[*]It educates (for a lack of a better word) a hunter to what potential the bucks have. If you start seeing more bucks and better bucks I'm talking body and rack size, the natural tendency would be to wait for a nicer one, but if you want shoot that spike go ahead. It doesn't force a trophy hunter mentality on anyone.[*]It will make hunting better, and more interesting.[*]I also think it would help to get more kids in the woods.[/ol]
Jf5, AR is far thing from QDM.