Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
11-14-2007, 12:01 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 1,007
Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
I just read that a large portion of Adirondackproperty is now owned by the Nature Conservancy?
I feel bad for you guys that hunt there. I know that thereis an "agreement" with "terms not yet determined" to continue to allow hunting on this property. If any of you out east want to keep that land for hunting, you had better join together and get in the face of the Nature Conservancy and make sure this property can be used on your terms!
I'll give you a shakedown of how it is in my county in WI. Aproximately 10,000 acres of prime forest and farm landis owned by Nature Conservancy. Can you hunt it? Yes, gun deer season only, and only the regular season (no special early/late seasons, or muzzleloader apply). NO small game, no waterfowl, no turkey, no archery hunting is allowed on this property at all. The only only way you can be on this land is by foot or horseback. No permanant stands (including hangon or ladder stands) climbers only, no trimming shooting lanes!
There is no real control over who hunts where however, so safety is a major concern. They "say" that access is limited to 4 hunters per 40 acres (too many for me to feel safe), but they don't assign acreage or sections, it is sort of a "we have 360 acres here so we can 'fit' aproximately 36 hunters on this farm. They don't account that some of the land is better than others for holding deer, so 28 of the 36 try to fit on 100 acres.
Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you that IMO the Nature Conservency want's nothing to do with hunting, only tree hugging. Beware and be strong together!
I feel bad for you guys that hunt there. I know that thereis an "agreement" with "terms not yet determined" to continue to allow hunting on this property. If any of you out east want to keep that land for hunting, you had better join together and get in the face of the Nature Conservancy and make sure this property can be used on your terms!
I'll give you a shakedown of how it is in my county in WI. Aproximately 10,000 acres of prime forest and farm landis owned by Nature Conservancy. Can you hunt it? Yes, gun deer season only, and only the regular season (no special early/late seasons, or muzzleloader apply). NO small game, no waterfowl, no turkey, no archery hunting is allowed on this property at all. The only only way you can be on this land is by foot or horseback. No permanant stands (including hangon or ladder stands) climbers only, no trimming shooting lanes!
There is no real control over who hunts where however, so safety is a major concern. They "say" that access is limited to 4 hunters per 40 acres (too many for me to feel safe), but they don't assign acreage or sections, it is sort of a "we have 360 acres here so we can 'fit' aproximately 36 hunters on this farm. They don't account that some of the land is better than others for holding deer, so 28 of the 36 try to fit on 100 acres.
Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you that IMO the Nature Conservency want's nothing to do with hunting, only tree hugging. Beware and be strong together!
11-14-2007, 12:20 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
This is the rules I found for Wisconsin very similar to the ones already established on our state forests. We can't trim shooting lanes on MY game lands either. I'd rather see the NC get the land then a devolper or someone that will just post it and shut it down. You shouldn't be able to put permenant stands on land like this.
following rules and statements:
[ol][*]
Only white-tailed deer may be hunted, no other animals (see exception for our Military Ridge preserves below). Deer baiting and deer drives are not allowed.[/align][*]
No fires, camping, littering (including the use of plastic flagging), or dumping of waste on Conservancy property.[/align][*]
Only temporary, non-damaging deer stands may be used. You should place your name and contact info on your stand. You may not put up a stand more than seven days before the start of the season in which you are hunting, and the stand must be removed within seven days after the close of that season. No stands shall be placed within50 yardsof a property boundary or another stand. The Conservancy assumes no responsibility for lost or damaged stands left unattended.[/align][*]
No cutting, breaking or clearing of vegetation.[/align][*]
No off-road vehicle use.[/align][*]
No hunting is allowed within a 200-yard radius of any inhabited dwelling.[/align][*]
Hunters on preserves that require aConservancy permit must carrya fully signed permit and wear an assigned I.D. badge at all times while on Conservancy property.[/align][*]
Alcohol is not allowed on Conservancy preserves or in the parking lot.[/align][*]
Unnecessary shooting or shooting at targets is prohibited.[/align][*]
A hunter may be accompanied by one or more of his/her own children to hunt on Conservancy lands. The minor must be at least 12 years of age and have all licenses or permits required to hunt under Wisconsin law. The adult hunter agrees to take full responsibility for the minor. If the minor is 12-13 years of age the adult agrees to keep the minor within sight and voice contact, and to directly supervise the minor at all times. Minors 14-17 years of age may hunt without supervision if they have first taken a required hunter safety course. An additional hunting fee must be paid for the each permitted minor who is hunting. If the minor is not the child of the adult hunter they will be hunting with, then the Conservancy must receive a parental consent and release form (available from the Conservancy at [email protected]) signed by the minor's parent and the accompanying hunter, prior to the minor entering Conservancy property.[/align][*]
A hunter may be accompanied by no more than one non-hunting guest while hunting on Conservancy preserves.[/align][*]
By hunting on Nature Conservancy lands you acknowledge that hunting is inherently dangerous and that you are aware of the risks and dangers involved. By engaging is hunting as an activity you hereby assume all responsibility for any injury to persons or damages to property which occur in connection with your use of the Conservancy's property. As a hunter, for yourself, your heirs, successors and assigns, you hereby agree to release, indemnify, and hold the Conservancy harmless from any and all claims, liabilities, losses, damages, costs and expenses incurred in connection with your and any accompanying minor child’s activities or presence on the Conservancy's property, whether or not due to any negligent acts or omissions of the Conservancy.[/align][/ol]
following rules and statements:
[ol][*]
Only white-tailed deer may be hunted, no other animals (see exception for our Military Ridge preserves below). Deer baiting and deer drives are not allowed.[/align][*]
No fires, camping, littering (including the use of plastic flagging), or dumping of waste on Conservancy property.[/align][*]
Only temporary, non-damaging deer stands may be used. You should place your name and contact info on your stand. You may not put up a stand more than seven days before the start of the season in which you are hunting, and the stand must be removed within seven days after the close of that season. No stands shall be placed within50 yardsof a property boundary or another stand. The Conservancy assumes no responsibility for lost or damaged stands left unattended.[/align][*]
No cutting, breaking or clearing of vegetation.[/align][*]
No off-road vehicle use.[/align][*]
No hunting is allowed within a 200-yard radius of any inhabited dwelling.[/align][*]
Hunters on preserves that require aConservancy permit must carrya fully signed permit and wear an assigned I.D. badge at all times while on Conservancy property.[/align][*]
Alcohol is not allowed on Conservancy preserves or in the parking lot.[/align][*]
Unnecessary shooting or shooting at targets is prohibited.[/align][*]
A hunter may be accompanied by one or more of his/her own children to hunt on Conservancy lands. The minor must be at least 12 years of age and have all licenses or permits required to hunt under Wisconsin law. The adult hunter agrees to take full responsibility for the minor. If the minor is 12-13 years of age the adult agrees to keep the minor within sight and voice contact, and to directly supervise the minor at all times. Minors 14-17 years of age may hunt without supervision if they have first taken a required hunter safety course. An additional hunting fee must be paid for the each permitted minor who is hunting. If the minor is not the child of the adult hunter they will be hunting with, then the Conservancy must receive a parental consent and release form (available from the Conservancy at [email protected]) signed by the minor's parent and the accompanying hunter, prior to the minor entering Conservancy property.[/align][*]
A hunter may be accompanied by no more than one non-hunting guest while hunting on Conservancy preserves.[/align][*]
By hunting on Nature Conservancy lands you acknowledge that hunting is inherently dangerous and that you are aware of the risks and dangers involved. By engaging is hunting as an activity you hereby assume all responsibility for any injury to persons or damages to property which occur in connection with your use of the Conservancy's property. As a hunter, for yourself, your heirs, successors and assigns, you hereby agree to release, indemnify, and hold the Conservancy harmless from any and all claims, liabilities, losses, damages, costs and expenses incurred in connection with your and any accompanying minor child’s activities or presence on the Conservancy's property, whether or not due to any negligent acts or omissions of the Conservancy.[/align][/ol]
11-14-2007, 12:21 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,862
RE: Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
Do you have a link or something where we can find out exactly how much land they bought? Did they buy it from private hands or from the state? The Adirondacks has a ton of public land, probably more of it is public than private. I don't know how alarmed people should be getting over this?
11-14-2007, 12:27 PM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
The last big piece of privately owned timberland in the Adirondacks — a craggy 161,000-acre wilderness of hardwood forests, 80 mountain peaks, 70 crystal-clear lakes and ponds, undammed rivers, white water gorges and secluded bogs — has been sold for $110 million to the Nature Conservancy, in a move intended to protect the land from future development.
The transaction — one of the largest ever in the Adirondack Park — is also significant because it includes a working forest agreement to allow selective cutting of timber to continue for 20 years, providing trees to the Finch Paper mill in Glens Falls and helping preserve 850 jobs at the mill, which has been a fixture in the region for more than a century.
The land sale was part of a complicated business transaction in which an investment group led by Atlas Holdings and Blue Wolf Capital Management, and operating under the name Finch Paper Holdings, acquired the privately held company Finch, Pruyn & Company, a local business that traced its roots back to 1865.
Following the model set by other paper companies in recent years that have sold off their vast holdings of timberland, the new owners decided to sell Finch, Pruyn’s 161,000 acres, offering the land to the Nature Conservancy, a nonprofit conservation group.
Henry Tepper, the New York State director of the conservancy, said that because of the extraordinary nature of the land that is being protected, the organization had to act quickly to make sure the property was not broken up or sold piecemeal to a developer.
Finch Paper Holding first raised the option of selling the land to the conservancy just six weeks ago. Deals of this size and importance often take an entire year.
“Our major accomplishment here, in moving as quickly as we have moved, is that we have kept this extraordinary holding intact,” Mr. Tepper said. “There was a very real chance that the mill and forest could have been broken up and sold in separate sales, which would have meant that we would lose a 100-year tradition of sustainable forestry on this land.”
The Adirondack Park, created in 1892, is the largest publicly protected area in the contiguous United States, greater in size than Yellowstone, Everglades, Glacier and Grand Canyon National Parks combined.
The park encompasses approximately six million acres, nearly half of which are publicly owned, and half composed of private farms, timberlands, businesses, homes and camps.
The 161,000 acres purchased by the conservancy is situated between Long Lake and Keene Valley in the heart of the Adirondacks. Besides preserving it as a working forest, the Nature Conservancy said it intended to renew about 140 annual recreational leases with hunting clubs and other organizations that have a long tradition of using the land.
The conservancy will also continue to pay $1.1 million in local property taxes to the 31 towns in 6 counties where the land is situated.
The final disposition of the land has not yet been determined, Mr. Tepper said. One option is to hold the land until the state can purchase it. The conservancy could also sell some of the property to a timber investment management organization that would oversee the sustainable harvest of the trees but keep out residential development.
Eventually some parts of the property being sold — which has been closed to the public since Ulysses S. Grant was president — could be opened for limited public recreational use, though that has not yet been decided.
For now, access is generally limited to scenic views along Blue Ridge Road and other thoroughfares that border Finch lands.
In the recent past, some paper companies in New York have sold only the development rights to their Adirondack lands while retaining ownership.
Adam Blumenthal, managing general partner of Blue Wolf Capital Management, one of the partners in the new holding company, said that selling the property outright was considered the better option because doing so brought an infusion of capital that “provided a strong financial basis for the mill to go forward while also assuring fiber supply for the long term.”
John F. Sheehan, of the Adirondack Council, an environmental group, said the 161,000 acres — which include what he called some of the wildest country in the Adirondack Park — are “crucial to the park’s biological diversity and completeness in terms of ecological protection.” He said that continuing timber operations that provide jobs and have been sustainably managed is considered compatible with the Adirondack Park’s preservation goals.
According to biological inventories prepared by the conservancy, the Finch property is home to 95 different animal species, including 37 that are considered rare in New York. The land also supports 91 species of birds. The Hudson River Gorge, which is sometimes called New York’s Grand Canyon, flows through the property.
With this acquisition, the Nature Conservancy has protected 556,572 acres in the Adirondacks since 1971.
The group financed the $110 million Finch purchase with loans from the Open Space Conservancy, the land acquisition arm of the Open Space Institute. The John Hancock Life Insurance Company is continuing an existing mortgage.
Mr. Tepper said the conservancy would undertake a major fund-raising project to cover the purchase price. And over the next year to 18 months, the conservancy will meet with community leaders, lease holders and the state to determine how best to manage the land.
The transaction — one of the largest ever in the Adirondack Park — is also significant because it includes a working forest agreement to allow selective cutting of timber to continue for 20 years, providing trees to the Finch Paper mill in Glens Falls and helping preserve 850 jobs at the mill, which has been a fixture in the region for more than a century.
The land sale was part of a complicated business transaction in which an investment group led by Atlas Holdings and Blue Wolf Capital Management, and operating under the name Finch Paper Holdings, acquired the privately held company Finch, Pruyn & Company, a local business that traced its roots back to 1865.
Following the model set by other paper companies in recent years that have sold off their vast holdings of timberland, the new owners decided to sell Finch, Pruyn’s 161,000 acres, offering the land to the Nature Conservancy, a nonprofit conservation group.
Henry Tepper, the New York State director of the conservancy, said that because of the extraordinary nature of the land that is being protected, the organization had to act quickly to make sure the property was not broken up or sold piecemeal to a developer.
Finch Paper Holding first raised the option of selling the land to the conservancy just six weeks ago. Deals of this size and importance often take an entire year.
“Our major accomplishment here, in moving as quickly as we have moved, is that we have kept this extraordinary holding intact,” Mr. Tepper said. “There was a very real chance that the mill and forest could have been broken up and sold in separate sales, which would have meant that we would lose a 100-year tradition of sustainable forestry on this land.”
The Adirondack Park, created in 1892, is the largest publicly protected area in the contiguous United States, greater in size than Yellowstone, Everglades, Glacier and Grand Canyon National Parks combined.
The park encompasses approximately six million acres, nearly half of which are publicly owned, and half composed of private farms, timberlands, businesses, homes and camps.
The 161,000 acres purchased by the conservancy is situated between Long Lake and Keene Valley in the heart of the Adirondacks. Besides preserving it as a working forest, the Nature Conservancy said it intended to renew about 140 annual recreational leases with hunting clubs and other organizations that have a long tradition of using the land.
The conservancy will also continue to pay $1.1 million in local property taxes to the 31 towns in 6 counties where the land is situated.
The final disposition of the land has not yet been determined, Mr. Tepper said. One option is to hold the land until the state can purchase it. The conservancy could also sell some of the property to a timber investment management organization that would oversee the sustainable harvest of the trees but keep out residential development.
Eventually some parts of the property being sold — which has been closed to the public since Ulysses S. Grant was president — could be opened for limited public recreational use, though that has not yet been decided.
For now, access is generally limited to scenic views along Blue Ridge Road and other thoroughfares that border Finch lands.
In the recent past, some paper companies in New York have sold only the development rights to their Adirondack lands while retaining ownership.
Adam Blumenthal, managing general partner of Blue Wolf Capital Management, one of the partners in the new holding company, said that selling the property outright was considered the better option because doing so brought an infusion of capital that “provided a strong financial basis for the mill to go forward while also assuring fiber supply for the long term.”
John F. Sheehan, of the Adirondack Council, an environmental group, said the 161,000 acres — which include what he called some of the wildest country in the Adirondack Park — are “crucial to the park’s biological diversity and completeness in terms of ecological protection.” He said that continuing timber operations that provide jobs and have been sustainably managed is considered compatible with the Adirondack Park’s preservation goals.
According to biological inventories prepared by the conservancy, the Finch property is home to 95 different animal species, including 37 that are considered rare in New York. The land also supports 91 species of birds. The Hudson River Gorge, which is sometimes called New York’s Grand Canyon, flows through the property.
With this acquisition, the Nature Conservancy has protected 556,572 acres in the Adirondacks since 1971.
The group financed the $110 million Finch purchase with loans from the Open Space Conservancy, the land acquisition arm of the Open Space Institute. The John Hancock Life Insurance Company is continuing an existing mortgage.
Mr. Tepper said the conservancy would undertake a major fund-raising project to cover the purchase price. And over the next year to 18 months, the conservancy will meet with community leaders, lease holders and the state to determine how best to manage the land.
11-14-2007, 12:44 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
If any of you out east want to keep that land for hunting, you had better join together and get in the face of the Nature Conservancy and make sure this property can be used on your terms!
The only only way you can be on this land is by foot or horseback
There is no real control over who hunts where however, so safety is a major concern
Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you that IMO the Nature Conservency want's nothing to do with hunting, only tree hugging. Beware and be strong together!
[align=right][/align]
11-16-2007, 08:28 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 1,007
RE: Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
Just a warning, sometimes things that sound like a good deal at first aren't later on. I think the NY hunting population would be much better off if the land would have stayed state owned, at least then people could use it to small game hunt, turkey and perhaps a few other species.
Around here the NC is buying up farm after farm at prices higher than the local going rate, higher than the average hunter (or group of hunters) can afford. I can't blame the farmers for selling to them at those prices, but it displaces many of the families that hunted or used the land for recreation for years. Some of these properties are bought by NC and then they turn around and donate it to non-hunting groups thus effectively eliminating ALL hunting.
Additionally local property taxes that help support fire, police, and schools are not paid by NC. Thus the area is losing tax base off of each purchase.
Charlie,
In your thought that "they own it, we should do what they want" the NC will also re-sells some if it's properties (at a nice profit), but they can dictate what you can and can not do on YOUR land once you purchase it. Double standard????
Around here the NC is buying up farm after farm at prices higher than the local going rate, higher than the average hunter (or group of hunters) can afford. I can't blame the farmers for selling to them at those prices, but it displaces many of the families that hunted or used the land for recreation for years. Some of these properties are bought by NC and then they turn around and donate it to non-hunting groups thus effectively eliminating ALL hunting.
Additionally local property taxes that help support fire, police, and schools are not paid by NC. Thus the area is losing tax base off of each purchase.
Charlie,
In your thought that "they own it, we should do what they want" the NC will also re-sells some if it's properties (at a nice profit), but they can dictate what you can and can not do on YOUR land once you purchase it. Double standard????
11-16-2007, 08:51 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
would be much better off if the land would have stayed state owned
Following the model set by other paper companies in recent years that have sold off their vast holdings of timberland, the new owners decided to sell Finch, Pruyn’s 161,000 acres, offering the land to the Nature Conservancy, a nonprofit conservation group.
Additionally local property taxes that help support fire, police, and schools are not paid by NC. Thus the area is losing tax base off of each purchase
but they can dictate what you can and can not do on YOUR land once you purchase it. Double standard????
11-16-2007, 07:33 PM
#9
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central NY
Posts: 67
RE: Adirondack land sold/given to Nature Conservancy
I have had a lease from Finch for the past 13 years now. I am not sure what is going to happen at this point but it sounds to me through letters I have received from Finch that my lease may be terminated after this season. They make it sound like all of these lands will be opened to the public. I am not happy about this. Think about having a piece of property for 13 years and having all your spots in place, blinds built, trails open, all the work put into a piece of property for all those years just to see anyone who wants to hunt it be allowed. I don't know about any of you, but I sure am not looking forward to seeing someone inany of my blinds I have spent all these years building and upkeeping. I hope theycontinue to renew the lease but it sure does not look that way.