missedagain

Some of you seem to have good deer populations in your areas and some don't. Whatever the number of deer in Pa was at the start of the season, the PGC ultimately aims to cut it in half. I am not saying that as some scare tactic. That is what the PGC has openly stated. The last figure I heard was somewhere around 700,000 as a desired pre season herd.

The reasons for antler restrictions is to allow 100,000 plus bucks to carry over to the next year. On the surface that sounds like a mouthwatering idea. One dry year and then monsters everywhere. But remember, Alt and the boys are crying about habitat and that the herd has to be reduced. If you let 100,000 bucks walk, you have to take an extra 100,000 doe to break even. And remember, the aim is to reduce--not break even. So, more than 100,000 extra doe have to be taken next year if the desire is to reduce the herd and shield 100,000 bucks.

I am not sure that an extra 100,000 doe can be killed. I think we hit a wall this year. I do not think that there are anywhere near the number of deer in this state that the PGC says, but that is another issue. I don't know anyone who passed up on a doe this past season, but certainly some did. But another 100,000 plus doe next year? We'll see.

NJ_Bowhntr

You know, this is the most destructive post to hunting and hunters I've read here in a long time. You guy's perpetuate the sterotype of hunters that all anti-hunters try to sell to the public. You should be ashamed of yourselves. It just goes to show how much this new trophy hunting mentality is more destructive to hunting than it is constructive. It causes a great division among hunters, and it somehow propells a small elitist group to paint the majority of hunters and hunting traditions with the same brush as the anti-hunters.

Shooting small, perfectly legal bucks, bucks to be proud of (as is any deer) is not hurting hunting. People like BT Bowhunter, wimp, and the others sitting there applauding them, are the real danger to the future of hunting. I have never bashed anyone on this site, or anywhere for that matter, but you guy's are just plain stupid. You don't have a clue. You are selfish and try to push your hunting style and desires on everyone else, and if they don't agree with you, they are somewhat less of a person or hunter. You are more of an enemy to hunting than PETA will ever be. PETA can't divide us, you can, and from the content of this post seem to be trying very hard to do just that.

Buck Magnet

I see your point NJ, the only thing is, Pennsylvania has too many diverse areas to hunt and too many diverse hunters. The always conflict with one another. I don't think that anyone is really bashing anyone on here. BT and I had some arguements, but they never got personal. I know that to PETA and people who aren't from Pennsylvania, this looks bad. In my eyes though, this is a VERY enlightening post. It has opened my eyes up a lot.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

BTBowhunter

Well NJ just plain stupid old me has a question. When there is a problem in the family do you just ignore it? No you try to solve it from within. This wasn't posted on a PETA forum it was posted among hunters. If you think that the kind of behavior referred to on this thread doesn't exist, well , naw, I'm not gonna insult you personally. I'll just state the facts. It still exists! And the most loudest noises resisting any change seems to come from those type of guys (in my limited experience) There are a lot of caring folks on this board that the posts don't apply to but there are a very few that I suspect were described to a tee. BTW why dont you criticize the guys who complained that a slob stole their deer or the guys complaining about litterbug hunters or the guys complaining the poachers will be out tonight or the guys that found a deer with it's head cut off. That's all ammo for PETA too. You say I'm just plain stupid, well I say it's just plain stupid to wait for PETA to point out our problems to the world instead of spotlighting the ridiculous within our ranks from time to time in the interest of improving things.

Big Country

nj bowhunter, if you would read the opening post on this thread, you would see that it is not strictly about trophy deer hunting. It is however, the cold, hard truth about the first day or two of our rifle season in PA. I may not agree with all that is said here, but no one seems to be pushing their elitist ways down anyones throat. If you, or anyone else wants to shoot a legal, yet not really big buck in this state, that is fine by me. And I would bet that it is fine by bt, and wimp too! What is NOT fine by me, nj bowhunter, is people jumping out of trucks, and firing like idiots, tresspassing when it suits there purpose, or breaking any other game laws whenever they feel the need! If anyone thinks that these practices do not occur on a regular basis in this state, they are the IDIOT! If you don`t want peta, or any other anti-hunting group to use our actions against us, here is a little suggestion for you! Report every violator you see, become active in the war against poachers, and maybe, just maybe all of us hunters in this state, regardless of our weapon of choice, will have things a little better!

BTBowhunter

BM
EXACTLY! people can have heated disagreements. Its actually healthy. I know I've learned from them. I've also learned that personal shots don't help and I'm doing my best to prevent taking any at anyone again.

Lets all face it there are a bunch of sincere people who care a great deal about our sport here. It's hard to avoid getting emotional when we disagree. WE may not always agree but just like our USA when attacked by Bin Laden we are all hunters together in the face of the PETAphiles!

missedagain

NJ_Bowhntr,
You hit the nail on the head. A trophy mentality has indeed descended on the Pa. hunting community. It is fostered by Alt with his big rack display at his talks and pushed by the Alt/QDM gestapo who wish to ram through major changes and make non believers feel guilty for taking a legal deer.

Some of the antics of the camp hunters are archaic and amusing but that is their business. I think any deer with a bow is a trophy and understand that some feel the same way about deer they infrequently get with a gun. Why must we promote them as some criminal class? You all ought to move to Texas where the game farms are.

Gar-Shooter

Good Post Wimp! I agree 100% with you too.

Gar

Just Say No to Crossbows!

NJ_Bowhntr

I don't have any problem with each hunter having his or her own views, and pursuing this sport in that manner. And I don't deny that the behavior you described exists. However, the title, content and aim of this post is about hunting traditions. The behavior you described is not a hunting tradition anywhere. It's slobish behavior. When you start a post talking about hunting traditions, then go on the label the behavior you did, and follow-up posts add the beer swigging, etc. etc., you had better expect some vicious critism. Those are not hunting traditions. Maybe you should have entitled your post "can we rid ourselves of the slobs", because that would have set a whole different tone. Yes, differences of opinion are a good thing, and we do need to rid ourselves of the slobs, however, you painted with a pretty broad brush by labeling the behavior you did as "traditions".

With the title, you associated all the slobish behavior with hunting traditions. Well, people have been jacking deer at night for years too, but it's not a hunting tradition. Your post actually attacked hunting traditions and hunters, not poachers and slobs. Think before you write. And you all have a point. I should have typed "foolish" rather than "stupid". You may not be stupid people, but your characterization of hunters in this post was foolish. It did come across as though you were lumping all hunters who don't approve of QDM regs in the same class as those who exhibit the behavior you described, ergo earning the 'elists' name in my post.

For the record, I think QDM is a good thing, and passed up over 12 bucks this year from spikes to small 8-pointers. However, I don't think it should be statewide, and I don't think hunters who refuse to practice QDM fall into the same slobish category of classless people in the woods that you assailed in the beginning of this thread. Alt may have some good ideas, but he went about the program backwards. He should have used the available research to divide the state into manageable zones, then designated the necessary area's for herd reduction, and further antler restrictions. I'm sure the division among hunters would have been minimal had he done this.

People who hunt just to see deer, or take a spike, pay the same amount of money that QDM supporters do, and they should be afforded the opportunity to hunt as they wish. With some area's in QDM, and some not, hunters can chose the type of regulations they wish to hunt under.

I stand by what I said; posts like these, and the posters that make them, are more destructive to hunting than PETA. Instead of galvanizing hunters to rid our ranks of the slobs, you lump slobish behavior in with hunting traditions, and cause more division. Maybe, just maybe, your intentions were good, just like Gary Alt, however, just like Alt, you went about it the wrong way.

Buck Magnet

See, this post went from a heated discussion by hunters who LOVE their sport and have a HUGE appreciation for the animals to a very good discussion about PETA. We as hunters must ALWAYS stick together. It doesn't matter what you harvest animals with, all that matters is that WE stick together.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)