PA question?
 

After reading this and that about the "deer problem" in PA I have become quite interested, but don't really have the time to do all the research myself.

I've read where PA went from having too many deer to not hardly any deer. This and that.

So, you PA fellas sum it up for me. Whats going on in your state?

RE: PA question?
 

Were i hunt seeing deer is rare, I live in Altoona and hunt around here and up in houtzdale by the prison, i dont see deer. Period.
Ryan.

RE: PA question?
 

i see maybe 50 all year when before the "management" i would see 50 on the first day of deer season

RE: PA question?
 

In much of the state the deer numbers have been reduced to a level that the habitat can support. Which means, yes there are far fewer deer. Much debate still goes on about HOW fewer.

HOWEVER, in other areas of the state(yes even public land areas) there are very good quantities of deer with good size bucks to boot.

So there is a bit of a disparity, but it's not like they are extinct even in the places where they are fewer in number than they used to be.

RE: PA question?
 

I know that it seems like one thing. If you PA guys don't all stop your bickering and get together and take a stand, PA is going to be the first state where deer hunting is banned or at least halted.

I had a few PA guys in my classes at FLETC down in GA. I was shocked at the stories they were telling me.

So, what caused it? Too many does being shot?

Reason for the questions is that I live in SC. We've never had a limit on the amount of deer that we can shoot. We can kill 50 a year if we please. Over the past few years our state is being torn into Upper State VS lower state....on the whole "management" issue.

RE: PA question?
 

The main difference between PA and other states is there are about 1 million resident hunters. You will never get all those guys on the same page. The archery hunters want to argue with the rifle hunters, some guys don't care about antler size, other do. Some just want it like it used to be and see lots of deer, others want the herd reduced to create bigger bucks. The bickering that goes on is unbelievable and the PGC is in the middle of it. If you want to see all the fighting that goes on visit the http://www.PaSportsmenPortal.com click on the forums and visit the legislative section. It is unreal how these guys go at it all day long, every day. Frankly it is wearing me out.

RE: PA question?
 

first of all we have more hunters than in any other state which is not a help like jsay said, second of all i am seeing and harvesting bigger and nicer bucks on my land than i ever have, as for not seeing as many deer i have no problem with that as long i can keep gettin close to them big ones once or twice a year, i dont see why any state would ever let you harvest as many deer as you would like, if that happened in PA i guarentee that the herd would disappear, the state is not in bad shape and the antler restriction has been a big help

RE: PA question?
 

In most cases it all comes down to hunting pressure.Where there's alot of hunters there's few deer.

RE: PA question?
 

Personally, I think the state's deer herd is in better shape than it has been for years. Growing up I would agree that I did see a lot of deer. The first day of buck season I could almost be guaranteed to see at least 30 deer. Granted, every single one of them was a doe but I saw deer. If I did see a buck chances are it was a 70 pound spike that was running for it's life after being shot at 50 times so I couldn't get a shot anyway. People are claiming to be "meat hunters" when they argue against antler restrictions yet they want to be able to shoot that 70 lb spike over a 110 lb doe. Hmmm, "meat hunters" who "don't care about the size of the rack" but yet shooting an animal that weighs 40 lbs less. I would go to the local butcher shop the first weekend and if there was 200 inches of antler in the entire cooler you were lucky. Now, the average buck I'm seeing is at least 100" and 2.5 years old with some of the bigger ones going into the 170's. As far as the numbers of deer I will say I am seeing fewer but in no way are they close to being gone. Whenever I hear that statement from another hunter my first question I ask is "How often do you get to hunt?" The typical response is " Well, I take off for the first day and then I might get out the first weekend of rifle. But that spot has been great for the past 20 years so they should still be there." My standard response is then "Oh, so the same tree stump that you've hunted forever doesn't have deer running by it this year so they must be all gone". I guess the bottom line is... Are there fewer deer? YES...Are they almost gone? - Absolutely not ...Are they harder to hunt? - yes, you may actually have to "hunt" for them now...Are there bigger buck? - As far as I'm concerned with what I'm seeing scouting and on trail cams...no doubt.

RE: PA question?
 

I have to agree with bearklr, the bucks are 100% better than 7 years ago. I can't even tell you how many people I know that used to shoot spikes and fork horns, now with the antler restriction the same people are shooting more mature deer. I have always been against shooting button bucks and spikes and typically when we are hunting when the spike walked by it was with a doe. Another thing that has changed is that when you check out a local deer processor you don't see that scrap pile of little racks that the hunters don't even want to take home, they just tell the processor to keep it. I think over the next few years you see a steady decline in the number of doe tags available. I can't speak for eastern PA but in western PA the hunting is still good. When we go spotting we typically see 60 deer an evening (1-1/2 hours) and a lot of nice bucks.

JMO

RE: PA question?
 

The deer are much healthier everywhere andstill in good numbers in much of the state. The areas that generate the most complaints of too few deer are among the absolute worst habitat in the state. (The areas that were formerly known as the deer woods)

Interestingly, doe mortality was studied in one of those areas and hunters accounted for only 8-15% of all adult doe mortality. Doe tags were also cut dramatically very early on in this program in that same areaso it's not overhunting thats to blame. Predation, lack of food, low recruitment, fawn mortality and many other factors contribute to the low deer numbers in the problem areas. The biggest problem is that there are huge areas that have graduated to the pole timber stage.... the worst kind of wildlife habitat.

RE: PA question?
 

I have a tough time with how the doe season is being handled. I feel that we are just killing off too many pregnant does. I used to see 20 to 30 dear opening days, now it is rare to see 2-3. It has made hunting in pa much more challenging. The females have got more mass to them and with the antler resctrictions the bucks are coming along. I think last year we had moreP&Ybucksthan ever before.I have got some nice bucks this year on the trail cam but not many doe. My camera has been out for 3 months and I only have one fawn picture.I always get my doe tag, although if I get a buck I doent think I will fill the doe tag this year. I would like to go back to the short doe season.

RE: PA question?
 

Im new but just wanted to add my two cents. I live in York County now, but have lived in Coudersport(Potter) for 4 years until recently. I hunt exclusively in Clinton and Potter. Though I travel much of the state often, the counties mentioned are the only ones I know like the back of my hand.

In my opinion, the PGC needed some type of management program. But they went about it all wrong, whether it is lack of man power or deceitfull political practices I cannot say(though I favor the latter). Our counties needed to be managed on a much higher level. Without going into great detail, Clinton and Potter counties should have been split further. York also but for different reasons. For years hunters and biologists complain about the lack of quality habitat in Clinton and Potter. This couldnt be farther from the truth. Less deer per sq mile, and many more select cuts in the last 10 years than ever before, and with the DCNR gating many access roads, the quality is at its highest ever. Again, purely in my opinion. But the quality of bucks seen in the last 3 years cannot be achieved purely by age alone.

What id like to see is doe season cut for two years in those areas. Closely monitor the population with more stringent methods than field surveys. Ive gotten alot of flack over this one, but bring public run check stations to PA. Not only will public run check stations allieviate some problems with PGC manpower, it will also help the much needed local economy. For years hunting was the big money maker in Clinton and Potter. In recent years snowmobiling has replaced that. Our deer herds affect more than hunters, as the businessman in these areas can attest.

Our state has alot of work to do. It is going to take years to get a balance which in my opinion most hunters will not agree with. But one that will nonetheless benefit a healthy deer population. We need less PGC input and more hunter input. The PGC needs more manpower, and they have that in the hunters of PA. Now they just need to get their heads out of the arse and listen! And the hunters in PA need to get more than 100 yrs off the path, and realize the 25 deer you saw the first day were the same 5 running back and forth. And on a related but much different note, we PA hunters need to start paying attention to public lands. We need more, and fast. With the private lands being bought up by developers in all areas, our grandkids may not have many more choices on where to hunt, and which also greatly impact any management plans the PGC takes.

RE: PA question?
 

I agree with pahick. Furthermore, the check station idea will give the PGC an "accurate" number of deer harvested each year. As a hunter in Potter County for the last 20 years, I am seeing far less deer, but larger buck. Almost an accurate trade-off.

RE: PA question?
 

I only hunt those 3 counties anymore, but I agree jjwillie, im seeing larger deer in those counties. Though I dont think the check station will go over well at first, I think it will make a difference.