anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
08-26-2007, 08:11 PM
#61
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: cazenovia, NY USA
Posts: 2,973
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I hear what you are saying - I saw a similar situation in Southern Albany County when I was in college 20 years ago - and hear of similar stories on the TUG Hill Plataeu -
Where do you hunt Airborneguy? If you've already said - I'm sorry I missed it.
FH
Where do you hunt Airborneguy? If you've already said - I'm sorry I missed it.
FH
08-26-2007, 08:19 PM
#62
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 361
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
In NY, mostly the Catskills on public land, but also a couple spots in Stueben and Schoharie counties.
I hunt all over NJ and love every minute of it, all public land.
I hunt all over NJ and love every minute of it, all public land.
08-26-2007, 09:20 PM
#63
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I live in the catskills.Woodstock NY. The majority of my hunting is in 3a and 3c.I also rifle hunt in Idaho every year unguided. After having hunted in Idaho for ten years and seeing what enjoyment comes from hunting a balanced herd,it can be very discouraging hunting at home.
Idaho accomplishes their management by having one either gender tag for all seasons.One deer and your done and it can be either a buck or a doe.If you want to continue to hunt as a resident you can purchase a non resident tag if they havn't been sold out.Between that and the vast area and relatively light hunting pressure it works quite well.
Idaho accomplishes their management by having one either gender tag for all seasons.One deer and your done and it can be either a buck or a doe.If you want to continue to hunt as a resident you can purchase a non resident tag if they havn't been sold out.Between that and the vast area and relatively light hunting pressure it works quite well.
08-27-2007, 06:38 AM
#64
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,862
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
As I already posted I think NY should have a two deer rule, one buck and one doe with a hunting license purchase. It wouldn't matter if they were taken in the bow, regular or muzzleloader season. You take two deer and your hunting would be over for the year. Like the rules out west where one deer is allowed, I think the NY herd is dense enough to allow two deer. I can guess who would be the first ones to complain about a rule like this, however.
I find it funny how some think NJ somehow manages things better and is deer hunting heaven. You will see bigger bucks in NJ just like you might in Westchester county and Long Island here in NY. These are suburban deer that will spend a good deal of their lives in small private parcels of land where hunting is virtually non-existant with some eventually making there way over to public land where they might be taken by a hunter. Plenty of time for any buck to get big and old in an environment like that. Places like NJ are actually a very unnatural habitat for deer. Of course some will like hunting there because if you can find a place the hunting is usually EASY compared to most anywhere else.
I find it funny how some think NJ somehow manages things better and is deer hunting heaven. You will see bigger bucks in NJ just like you might in Westchester county and Long Island here in NY. These are suburban deer that will spend a good deal of their lives in small private parcels of land where hunting is virtually non-existant with some eventually making there way over to public land where they might be taken by a hunter. Plenty of time for any buck to get big and old in an environment like that. Places like NJ are actually a very unnatural habitat for deer. Of course some will like hunting there because if you can find a place the hunting is usually EASY compared to most anywhere else.
08-27-2007, 01:24 PM
#66
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 174
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
AR is a poor choice. It is high grading and will eventually lead to a poorer quality buck in NY. It will also further lower the ranks of hunters, and we already have been losing hunters. So now we can make this happen faster and I may actually live long enough to see the end of legal hunting.
QDM is a good practice and is great where you have control over a large property. AR is not QDM.
MY .02$.
QDM is a good practice and is great where you have control over a large property. AR is not QDM.
MY .02$.
08-27-2007, 02:29 PM
#67
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 361
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
Steve863,
What it comes down to is money... I spend a lot of money on hunting every year, thousands. I do it every weekend from September to January, and now switched to working midights so I can hunt certain areas right after work in the morning. It is economically infeasible for me to hunt in NY where I haven't tagged a deer in almost 10 years. Why bother? I make 3 trips in NY each year: opening day bow, gun, and usually one more weekend of rifle. I basically ONLY hunt NY because I still like to get my rifle out once a year or so.
MAYBE if I had private land, I would be there more, but considering I get to have practically free, poor-man's trophy hunts in NJ, why waste all the gas and time going to NY where everyone has already shot up everything in sight?
And yes, since I am not poor and dependant on venison for my diet, once I get a doe or two for the freezer, I am trophy hunting... and there is nothing wrong with that.
As far as hunting being easy anywhere, I have never heard anyone else say that except for some wall street people I know who like to take trips to Texas. I don't bait in Jersey because I hunt public land, so I lose out on that benefit. But, I scout and can actually decipher deer patterns there which they tend to follow... unlike public land in NY where no matter how much you scout, opening day is totally different because 25,000 orange suits are there for a few hours until the card games and drinking start.
Maybe I am looking to AR as a means to turn the public NY woods more into a hunting environment as opposed to the wild west shoot 'em up I see now. Maybe I am completely wrong with what I have seen over the years, including an actual shoot out 3 years ago between two guys with rifles at Mongaup in Sullivan County. But either way, NJ has been getting to bulk of this hunter's money for the last few years, which is a lot.
What it comes down to is money... I spend a lot of money on hunting every year, thousands. I do it every weekend from September to January, and now switched to working midights so I can hunt certain areas right after work in the morning. It is economically infeasible for me to hunt in NY where I haven't tagged a deer in almost 10 years. Why bother? I make 3 trips in NY each year: opening day bow, gun, and usually one more weekend of rifle. I basically ONLY hunt NY because I still like to get my rifle out once a year or so.
MAYBE if I had private land, I would be there more, but considering I get to have practically free, poor-man's trophy hunts in NJ, why waste all the gas and time going to NY where everyone has already shot up everything in sight?
And yes, since I am not poor and dependant on venison for my diet, once I get a doe or two for the freezer, I am trophy hunting... and there is nothing wrong with that.
As far as hunting being easy anywhere, I have never heard anyone else say that except for some wall street people I know who like to take trips to Texas. I don't bait in Jersey because I hunt public land, so I lose out on that benefit. But, I scout and can actually decipher deer patterns there which they tend to follow... unlike public land in NY where no matter how much you scout, opening day is totally different because 25,000 orange suits are there for a few hours until the card games and drinking start.
Maybe I am looking to AR as a means to turn the public NY woods more into a hunting environment as opposed to the wild west shoot 'em up I see now. Maybe I am completely wrong with what I have seen over the years, including an actual shoot out 3 years ago between two guys with rifles at Mongaup in Sullivan County. But either way, NJ has been getting to bulk of this hunter's money for the last few years, which is a lot.
08-27-2007, 05:07 PM
#68
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 41
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I have been deer hunting NY since the late 60's, plus several other states & provinces every now and then. I love the hunt, and do not shoot every legal deer I see....... my choice.
Antler Restrictions and a least a percentage of the Quality Management argument smell of anti-hunting and anti-gun motives. "DEATH BY A 1,000 CUTS" is no joke, and this slow progressive complication of the rules is just that.
Look at what has happened to waterfowl hunting over the years, among other things, You have to call in for a HIP number every year, when you have already been assigned a unique lifetime license number?.?
The new stream fishing rule for trout, limit is 5, but only 2 over 12".
Every legal move to complicate the sport simply drives more participants away and discourages new interest.
Antler Restrictions and a least a percentage of the Quality Management argument smell of anti-hunting and anti-gun motives. "DEATH BY A 1,000 CUTS" is no joke, and this slow progressive complication of the rules is just that.
Look at what has happened to waterfowl hunting over the years, among other things, You have to call in for a HIP number every year, when you have already been assigned a unique lifetime license number?.?
The new stream fishing rule for trout, limit is 5, but only 2 over 12".
Every legal move to complicate the sport simply drives more participants away and discourages new interest.
08-27-2007, 06:52 PM
#69
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caledonia, NY
Posts: 773
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
ORIGINAL: farm hunter
Steve - I know you know this topic well - I've read many a post over the years form you. I don't disagree with everything you say - BUT - I don't agree with you that the status quo is the way to go.
Consider this -
The number of hunters in NY is going DOWN and will continue to as the baby boomer Generation ages. You know as well as I, that means less hunters will have to harvest MORE deer...........or............we need to lower the deer population overall.
Either way - Statewide, we'll have to shoot MORE Does - not less, and eventually manage a smaller herd. We can do this in the short term by just issuing more doe permits. But AR proponents are suggesting that a BETTER way to go - might be to CHANGE the mindset of the avg hunter. Abolish the thought that"does are sacred". And get more people thinking about filling the freezer with a doe rather than a young buck.
Personally - My support for ARs have nothing to do with taking a trophy deer - I'm not a trophy hunter at all. I do however very much like the Idea of a Balanced Deer Herd - with more deer in every age class. I too - like the idea of a more diverse enviroment, with animal and plant species maximized for a givenenvironment.
Its Biodiveristy - and that is what is fueling the Scientific Support of Statewide managent programs Like QDM.There may well be added benefits for deer hunters (like increased doe harvest and some bucks with larger antlers) as a result. However, It proves nothingto point to the BEST Examples of deer taken in NY and proclaim that the current system is not broken.
I'll get off my soapbox - and I'll ask that before you "box quote" me (I thought only ATLASMAN did that) - that you consider the folks in the DEC - and where they've gotten their education. I can tell you for sure - they are NOT learning that the Staus Quo in NY is OK - and eventually they will change the managment program, such as it is.
My suggestion to you, and to others - would be to find out what other options for change are out there if you are so dead set against AR - because I'm telling you - I don't think I'm the only one that is convinced tha MAJOR CHANGES are coming in how NY Manages their deer.
OK?
FH
Steve - I know you know this topic well - I've read many a post over the years form you. I don't disagree with everything you say - BUT - I don't agree with you that the status quo is the way to go.
Consider this -
The number of hunters in NY is going DOWN and will continue to as the baby boomer Generation ages. You know as well as I, that means less hunters will have to harvest MORE deer...........or............we need to lower the deer population overall.
Either way - Statewide, we'll have to shoot MORE Does - not less, and eventually manage a smaller herd. We can do this in the short term by just issuing more doe permits. But AR proponents are suggesting that a BETTER way to go - might be to CHANGE the mindset of the avg hunter. Abolish the thought that"does are sacred". And get more people thinking about filling the freezer with a doe rather than a young buck.
Personally - My support for ARs have nothing to do with taking a trophy deer - I'm not a trophy hunter at all. I do however very much like the Idea of a Balanced Deer Herd - with more deer in every age class. I too - like the idea of a more diverse enviroment, with animal and plant species maximized for a givenenvironment.
Its Biodiveristy - and that is what is fueling the Scientific Support of Statewide managent programs Like QDM.There may well be added benefits for deer hunters (like increased doe harvest and some bucks with larger antlers) as a result. However, It proves nothingto point to the BEST Examples of deer taken in NY and proclaim that the current system is not broken.
I'll get off my soapbox - and I'll ask that before you "box quote" me (I thought only ATLASMAN did that) - that you consider the folks in the DEC - and where they've gotten their education. I can tell you for sure - they are NOT learning that the Staus Quo in NY is OK - and eventually they will change the managment program, such as it is.
My suggestion to you, and to others - would be to find out what other options for change are out there if you are so dead set against AR - because I'm telling you - I don't think I'm the only one that is convinced tha MAJOR CHANGES are coming in how NY Manages their deer.
OK?
FH
A bit of info: The number of hunters in NY went UP last year. Might not be a trend, but there was a clear increase in hunters in NY.
Another thing, you might want to look into as far as your thinking regarding QDM. I know the QDMA inside and out. In fact, in May, I turned down a job at Quality Whitetails (wish the pay was more...I'd jump at it otherwise). The QDMA is not 100% in support of points-based A/R on a state level. Some support it, while others do not. Notably, many of the most respected QDMA members with biological and widlife backgrounds do not want to see state-implemented A/R. When I first noticed that, I was a bit shocked. Several reasons, but the point being, QDM beliefs are mixed on the matter.