anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
08-22-2007, 02:30 PM
#31
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 366
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
Thanks for your reply Steve, and I also am not attempting to make others hunt the way I do. I do feel that NY should make some changes, I also feel that there are better ways to change other than AR. I also feel that if any given hunter on any given day wants to shoot a spike than good for them, That should be there buck for the season. Stop the transfer of doe tags, to many wives, mothers, and fathers that don't hunt get a permit just to sigh over tags.I would guess that some of theDMUs that these people are hunting in are not the DMU the tag is for. This in time is why some DMUs have low DMP #'s.
08-22-2007, 03:43 PM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Allston MA USA
Posts: 533
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
ORIGINAL: Steve863
while more than a few are left to rot in areas with antler restrictions.
This is purely logic of hunters who would do anything for that almighty trophy rack. Managing deer numbers, what should be the goal of state game departments, has very little if anything to do with antler size.
while more than a few are left to rot in areas with antler restrictions.
This is purely logic of hunters who would do anything for that almighty trophy rack. Managing deer numbers, what should be the goal of state game departments, has very little if anything to do with antler size.
You have strong opinons in this threadstating thatpro-AR guys areslobs, greedy hunters, and show offs.Well thats fine, but its a verywidegeneralization that isyour opinion.
Abiologist backed program that has shown sucess can't be dismissed by opinion.PA has shown its program to be better for male age strcuture, overall herd health, and habitat health. VT program has also started to show results in a similar manner. Getting better racks is a nice side benefit yes. But they put the overallherd first and the resultsare there.
NH is now following suit in one of their zones as part of an overall zone mgt program. It wasn't created by evil trophy hunters, it was created by NH state biologists.
I do agree that each zone needs to be managed differently and do not believe AR is perfect or some magic bullet. But does it hurt to try alternate programsin limited areas to see what the results arerather than just sayingnever?? That way the results canevaluated, and if it dosn't work, then the old regs can be placed back.
F & G agencies constantly change other regualtions on many fish, fowl, and big game species in response to changing conditions and other factors. I don't see why deer should be excluded in the name of traditions.
08-22-2007, 04:54 PM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I think it is great 3C and 3J are already showing a better quality of bucks after 2 years of antler restrictions,I hope more and more units go to it!! The momentum is starting to shift,it is not perfect but it is heading in the right direction.
As I believe PJarrows said,and I agree,everyone should be restricted to one buck per entire season,the rifle season should be drastically shortened and the herd numbers should be managed more specifically by the use of management permits.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is mine!
As I believe PJarrows said,and I agree,everyone should be restricted to one buck per entire season,the rifle season should be drastically shortened and the herd numbers should be managed more specifically by the use of management permits.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is mine!
08-22-2007, 07:56 PM
#34
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caledonia, NY
Posts: 773
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I know enough about this subject to NOT support AR based off everything considered in hunting (science/hunting's heritage or sport). Studies, etc. can "appear" proven for both sides.
I simply cannot tell anyone, and I mean any hunter at all that they can/cannot shoot a deer that will make them happy.
The 3" and under rule is not an exclusion-based rule, it is a determination rule for gender. That in my opinion is different than one with the sole and expressed purpose of restricting buck harvest for reasons that have yet to show a dominant and clear advantage to current practices.
Nobody will really sway their opinion here, so there's no point in convincing otherwise. Those who support it,best of luck to you.For me, I'll continue to support a hunter taking a buck that makes them happy. Shoot a doe if you'd like. But if that buck is something you want to harvest, and will bring that smile to your face, I sure as hell am not going to stop it.
I simply cannot tell anyone, and I mean any hunter at all that they can/cannot shoot a deer that will make them happy.
The 3" and under rule is not an exclusion-based rule, it is a determination rule for gender. That in my opinion is different than one with the sole and expressed purpose of restricting buck harvest for reasons that have yet to show a dominant and clear advantage to current practices.
Nobody will really sway their opinion here, so there's no point in convincing otherwise. Those who support it,best of luck to you.For me, I'll continue to support a hunter taking a buck that makes them happy. Shoot a doe if you'd like. But if that buck is something you want to harvest, and will bring that smile to your face, I sure as hell am not going to stop it.
08-22-2007, 08:43 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: cazenovia, NY USA
Posts: 2,973
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I personally would welcome antler restrictions.
I've taken plenty of spikes, and forkhorns over the years - and there was a day when if you told me I could not - I'd probably have done it anyhow!
I'd like to see a change in the MINDSET of NY hunters - to thinking about a more balanced herd. Heck I know guys (too many) that STILL won't shoot a doe - but think nothing of filling their wife's tags with a spikehorn.
As far as HYGRADING - I think that this is silly - not that it cannot happen - but that we'd even worry about it.HYGRAGING would be a small price topay to change the average NY Hunter's mindset.Heck - if we can REALLY get people on board with passing smaller bucks, and highgrading REALLY becomes an issue as a result- it'll be NO Problem to go to a Min Width between antlers or other type of management to reduce the likelihood going forward.
FH
I've taken plenty of spikes, and forkhorns over the years - and there was a day when if you told me I could not - I'd probably have done it anyhow!
I'd like to see a change in the MINDSET of NY hunters - to thinking about a more balanced herd. Heck I know guys (too many) that STILL won't shoot a doe - but think nothing of filling their wife's tags with a spikehorn.
As far as HYGRADING - I think that this is silly - not that it cannot happen - but that we'd even worry about it.HYGRAGING would be a small price topay to change the average NY Hunter's mindset.Heck - if we can REALLY get people on board with passing smaller bucks, and highgrading REALLY becomes an issue as a result- it'll be NO Problem to go to a Min Width between antlers or other type of management to reduce the likelihood going forward.
FH
08-22-2007, 09:35 PM
#36
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 175
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I'm not a fan of AR for NY. Now on the other hand the guys I hunt with in Western NYand some of the people that own the property around us we try to self impose amore then4 points only harvest self limitation. I'm not a fan of the State telling me we have to do this though. Should be the hunter's choice in my opinion. I'm sure somethe landowners around us shoot spikes and undo our efforts, but that's theirright and Just cause we are looking for trophy bucks doesn't mean they have to be.
08-23-2007, 06:14 AM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,862
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
Sorry, but I was not making any assumptions at all here. I do know that it will be harder for hunters to tell whether a deer has at least 3 points to a side compared to determining if it has at least spikes. Surely more will be shot by accident with the 3 point rule.
I find it interesting how some eastern states seem to think these antler restriction rules are a surefire way to manage a deer herd. Many midwestern and western states have NO restrictions and yet produce bucks that any NY hunter would drool over. Why is that? Because of better genetics (better than NY will ever have whether you let bucks live longer or not) in the deer population in general and restrictions on the number of bucks that are allowed to be taken by a hunter. Would NY hunters ( especially bowhunters ) be satisfied if only two deer a year were allowed to be taken be it in the regular, bow or muzzleloader season? Probably not. It think that would help control the deer population a whole lot better in NY and at the same time keep the majority of hunters who purchase licenses satisfied. I think NY should give all hunters purchasing a big game license a buck tag which could be used on any buck with a minimum of 3" horns and doe tag that could be used in any part of the state. Hunters purchasing a bow or muzzleloader license would only extend their seasons but not have the privilage of taking additional deer. This would keep the deer population healthy for the meat hunters and give the trophy hunters a better chance at bigger bucks since fewer bucks will be taken in any given season with a one buck per hunter limit.
It seems hunters will compromise only when they get what THEY want. Of course with any changes in the rules there will be many that won't like it, but in my opinion allowing NY hunters to only shoot one buck and only one doe would be the simplest way to manage the herd, and yet keep the majority of hunters content which IS very important since hunter numbers have been dwindling rapidly in recent years.
I find it interesting how some eastern states seem to think these antler restriction rules are a surefire way to manage a deer herd. Many midwestern and western states have NO restrictions and yet produce bucks that any NY hunter would drool over. Why is that? Because of better genetics (better than NY will ever have whether you let bucks live longer or not) in the deer population in general and restrictions on the number of bucks that are allowed to be taken by a hunter. Would NY hunters ( especially bowhunters ) be satisfied if only two deer a year were allowed to be taken be it in the regular, bow or muzzleloader season? Probably not. It think that would help control the deer population a whole lot better in NY and at the same time keep the majority of hunters who purchase licenses satisfied. I think NY should give all hunters purchasing a big game license a buck tag which could be used on any buck with a minimum of 3" horns and doe tag that could be used in any part of the state. Hunters purchasing a bow or muzzleloader license would only extend their seasons but not have the privilage of taking additional deer. This would keep the deer population healthy for the meat hunters and give the trophy hunters a better chance at bigger bucks since fewer bucks will be taken in any given season with a one buck per hunter limit.
It seems hunters will compromise only when they get what THEY want. Of course with any changes in the rules there will be many that won't like it, but in my opinion allowing NY hunters to only shoot one buck and only one doe would be the simplest way to manage the herd, and yet keep the majority of hunters content which IS very important since hunter numbers have been dwindling rapidly in recent years.
08-23-2007, 02:43 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 1,653
RE: anyone in NY mad about the antler restrictions
I have shot plenty of deer but I do feel a bit sorry for the guy out to shoot his first buck. In that sense a spike is as good as anything. I hunt PAfor rifleand I sorta feel that people are shooting forked horn deer and counting the points after they are on the ground.I think that driving deer is a big part of PA hunting which amount to family affairs which is great but hard to be selective. Not dissing PA but drives are big and a major tradition and guys and gals and children shoot what runs by.
You PA guys do shoot some fine deer so the genetics must be there. Maybe not the best in the country but that does not mean you guys can't pop 160 class deer does it? Good lord willing of course
OPPS... I really meant NY and not PA... DUH
You PA guys do shoot some fine deer so the genetics must be there. Maybe not the best in the country but that does not mean you guys can't pop 160 class deer does it? Good lord willing of course
OPPS... I really meant NY and not PA... DUH
