2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Just a reminder that the Pennsylvania Game Commissioners have their annual meeting starting tomorrow morning to determine the season, bag limits, new deer management units, and a few other proposed regs. I have heard from several people that the meetings are interesting and informative. They take statements from the public and hunting groups around the state before making the proposals. If you get the chance you should stop by.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

The last public meeting I was at,NOT A PGC MEETING I was ******ed out of by security. I have sent my feelings to them in a letter. there socialistic forum and me wont get along. By the time of the meeting date is set they have already made their minds up, and have excepted their bribe money. Made their deels for their own gain. NO thanks,I would call for all of them to be fired,banished and put in some real life ,down to earth sportsman.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

You really need to look in the mirrow to try to find out what is wrong with your attending meetings. I would be ashamed if I wasn't able to function in society like that.

Are you taking to someone about these thoughts and the inabilty to civilly communicate with others? You would be glad you did.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Cardeer is about 90% right. They have thier minds already made up, & they have made thier deals.As for the bribe money it wouldn't surprise me. They want our input, but if it goes against thier plan so what, they're going to do what they want anyway. The PGC runs thier meetings in a socialistic manner thier motto should be "If you don't like it too bad".When someone gets up to speak & agrees with Alt & his cronies they can ramble on forever, if you disagree or hit a sore spot they stop you short make a statement & take the next question. Sort of border line Nazi's. Just my 2 cents.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

They are a dangerously fickle bunch- in truth. One good speech can sway them to do what they had not intended a few minutes before. I think we tend to think the world is against us when things don't go our way. If you ever have to be thrown out of a social gathering because of bad behaviour, you need to look inward for the problem.



Edited by - mhogan on 01/06/2003 09:49:54

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

There are four main quarterly meetings that the PGC commissioners are required to have where the set game laws and take comment on problems people are seeing with wildlife in Pennsylvania.

The January meeting is usually when they propose seasons. If you want, or don’t want something, this is the best time to make your case. Once it is proposed, it is very possible it will become law in the April meeting. The April meeting is when the seasons are set. The June meeting is to clean up any loose ends and sometimes finalize the items that they couldn’t resolve in April. The October meeting is when they discuss things that will probably propose for the next January meeting.

The January meeting is on a Sunday afternoon and therefore is the easiest meeting for people to attend. I like to see people I sometimes never get to see all year and see for myself how the system works. I generally take notes and try to tell others what went on. Many people are under mistaken impressions of these meetings and I would be too if I had to rely on what some people say on the message boards. For example, the belief that it is just a dog and pony show and their minds are already made up is very wrong. I have seen a comment made by a good speaker sway how I was sure a vote was going to go just a few minutes before that comment and that changed history in Pennsylvania. That can be a scary thing. Almost like a Steelers game where you thought you were winning and there is an interception and run back for a game losing touch down.

AR and concurrent are pretty much behind us and this meeting was much more laid back than most. Even the USP spokesman was evenhanded and reasonable. He did ask that acid rain be considered as a primary damager of our forests and that there is a disparity of deer densities between public and private land. I also believe that the PGC should create a panel to look at acid rain. The three main areas being the history (when was it first measured, where does it come from and what has the level and impact been since it was first noted), what can realistically be done about it and finally where would the funding to correct it come from? That should bring some closure to this issue.

I would say the two main issues discussed were DMAP and reindeer. Yes reindeer! Everyone supported DMAP. The biggest difference being whether the PGC should require these lands be open to public hunting to obtain these extra doe tags. Some felt that if you didn’t require it, more would post their lands and lease or charge money for a DMAP doe tag. Others felt it was un-reasonable to require landowners open their lands. Many had posted them because of littering and damage to their property by hunters they didn’t know. I side with the people that want DMAP for all landowners and that they open their lands should not be a requirement. After the litter I have seen on the SGL’s this year, I appreciate landowners wanting to invite whom they chose to hunt their property. Even hunting clubs should get these tags if needed.

The reindeer farmers pointed out that reindeer where more like cows than deer. They could not survive in the wilds if they escaped. And there has never been a documented case of a reindeer getting CWD. They asked they be exempted from the importation ban, even if it is just a 30-day permit. Most of their income is derived during the Christmas season by showing the animals and right now if they take them to another state, they aren’t allowed to bring them back home. Made sense to me.

Bob Hildenbrand, President of PATHA opposed the October gun season once the herd was balanced. Asked for a 4 point restriction be placed in SRA’s also. Asked for an archery turkey and bear season and that we stop the practice of requiring bag tag hunting licenses.

The UBP’s spokesman, Ed Wentzler stated that they wanted to see the harvest data and see how the new season went before making suggestions or requests. The steady hand plan.

Andy Bensing asked that they consider allowing archery season from 9/15 to 1/31, as it is a low impact style of hunting. He offered that the extensions be for doe only if the bucks harvests would create problems.

Jen Sager represented herself and ask asked that a longer bow season for whitetails be allowed. She suggested that they could eliminate the October gun season and get the same result by extending the archery seasons for doe only harvests. She wants bowhunters to be allowed to hunt turkeys all season long, as the harvests would be minimal while the recreation value would surely boost archery license sales.

Several spoke in support of Dr. Alt and the PGC for the recent deer management changes.

One lady asked that they help curb the excessive hawk and goose problem her area saw. The commissioners told her that was under federal jurisdiction and they had tried on the hawks and no one will even discuss that with them and they may get some help on the goose situation.

The Chief Law Enforcement officer stated that the rumors of $500 dollar fines had been greatly exaggerated. That in fact they were ½ what they were last year. Only 23 people out of 1873 people that had submitted deer as mistaken kills for AR violations had received the $500.00 fine.

Dr. Alt was in the audience; killing another rumor that he had taken a job in Texas or Colorado!

It was great to go there- despite the long drive. I got to see many celebrities including Dutch, Flintnocker, DFA, DennyF, Shooter, Muldoon, Bowdad, Os&ihsi, RC, Huntinggal and sister, and the Walking Dead! Sorry if I forgot anyone. Dead lines you know!

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Thanks for the update, Mark. Your observations and presence at the meetings is a great thing. I wish I could attend, but Harrisburg is 5+ hours away from me and work time just doesn't allow it.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Andy Bensing asked that they consider allowing archery season from 9/15 to 1/31, as it is a low impact style of hunting. He offered that the extensions be for doe only if the bucks harvests would create problems.

Jen Sager represented herself and ask asked that a longer bow season for whitetails be allowed. She suggested that they could eliminate the October gun season and get the same result by extending the archery seasons for doe only harvests. She wants bowhunters to be allowed to hunt turkeys all season long, as the harvests would be minimal while the recreation value would surely boost archery license sales.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Wooohoooo doggie!

Sorry. I got a little excited there...like I do every year when someone talks about extending archery opportunities but they shoot it down just as annually...<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

Thank you for the update Mark.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

I'm with you, Frank....except I used my &quot;INSIDE VOICE&quot;<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

You guys are most welcome.

GAME COMMISSIONERS GIVE PRELIMINARY APPROVAL
TO 2003-2004 SEASONS AND BAG LIMITS
HARRISBURG -- The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to hunting and trapping seasons and bag limits for 2003-2004, including new wildlife management units and continued antler restrictions for deer hunting. Following are several articles on meeting highlights. The public may offer comment on these proposals between now and the next meeting of the Board of Game Commissioners, April 7-8, at which time the Board will set final seasons and bag limits for 2003-2004.


NEW WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT UNITS GIVEN PRELIMINARY APPROVAL
The Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to new wildlife management units to improve - and in some cases, simplify - the future of hunting and trapping.

Drs. Matthew Lovallo and Christopher Rosenberry drafted the new wildlife management units, which, if given final adoption in April, will be used beginning with the 2003-2004 seasons to manage nearly all wildlife species.

&quot;Wildlife populations are not equally distributed or abundant across the Commonwealth,&quot; said Calvin W. DuBrock, director of the agency's Bureau of Wildlife Management. &quot;Given the problems associated with current species-specific management units and county boundaries, the Bureau conducted a thorough review of all management unit systems. The final product, which was built from the ground up, contains 22 management units.

&quot;This design simplifies the unit system for hunters and trappers, as well as wildlife resource managers, by creating a single, uniform management system with easily recognizable boundaries for all species.&quot;

Characteristics used to design the new wildlife management units included: land use/habitat; human density; public/private land ownership; recognizable physical features, such as major roads and rivers; and land use practices, such as agriculture, timber and development.

Currently, the Game Commission uses different units to manage bear, beaver, bobcat, deer, elk, pheasant, quail, turkey, waterfowl and other migratory game birds.

If approved by the Board of Game Commissioners, the only two categories that will not be managed using the new wildlife management unit system are: elk, which are primarily confined to an 835-square-mile area in northcentral Pennsylvania; and waterfowl and migratory game birds, which are managed using frameworks established by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

The change to new WMUs also will impact certain firearm restrictions for turkey hunting and types and numbers of devices that may be used for beaver trapping, as well as the process.

For a copy of the new WMU map, visit the Game Commission's website (www.pgc.state.pa.us), click on the &quot;Wildlife&quot; section and select &quot;Proposed Wildlife Management Units.&quot;


DEER SEASONS TO REMAIN LARGELY UNCHANGED FOR 2003-2004
After three years of dramatic changes to Pennsylvania's deer seasons, the Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to the 2003-2004 deer seasons that will nearly mirror those of 2002-2003. The only changes to deer hunting are administrative.

Based on its tentative approval for new wildlife management units, the Board also gave preliminary approval to a new process for allocating and applying for antlerless deer licenses.

Antler restrictions are scheduled to continue for the 2003-2004 seasons, and are adjusted to meet the new WMUs. Specifically:

-- In WMUs 1A, 1B, 2A and 2D, hunters will be required to abide by the four points on one side antler restriction;

-- In WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D, hunters will be able to abide by the old antler restrictions of one antler of three or more inches in length or one antler with at least two points;

-- In all other WMUs, hunters will be required to abide by a three points on one side antler restriction; and

-- Statewide, all junior license holders, disabled hunters with a permit to use a vehicle and active duty U.S. Armed Services personnel will be able to abide by the old antler restrictions of one antler of three or more inches in length or one antler with at least two points.

The deer seasons and bag limits for 2003-2004 are the same as last year. Following is an overview of the preliminarily approved seasons.

-- A concurrent antlered/antlerless rifle deer season from Dec. 1-13. In order to harvest a doe during the concurrent seasons, all hunters must possess a valid, WMU-specific antlerless deer license for the county in which they are hunting.

-- A firearms antlerless deer season from Oct. 23-25, for junior and senior license holders, Disabled Person Permit (to use a vehicle) holders, or Pennsylvania residents serving on active duty in the U.S. Armed Services, who possess the appropriate WMU-specific antlerless deer license. Also included are persons who have reached or will reach age 65 in the year of the application for a license and hold a valid adult license, or qualify for license and fee exemptions under section 2706.

-- A muzzleloader season for antlerless deer from Oct.18-25. The flintlock muzzleloader season, which is set for Dec. 26-Jan. 10, continues to be an antlered or antlerless season for hunters with primitive flintlock ignition firearms, provided the hunter possesses the appropriate license(s).

-- Archery seasons will be Oct. 4-Nov. 15, and Dec. 26-Jan. 10.

-- Antlerless deer hunting in the WMU 2B, 5C and 5D will be Dec. 26-Jan.10.

In other deer hunting-related action, the Board gave preliminary approval to a measure to extend the deadline for hunters to purchase a muzzleloader stamp from Aug. 31 to Nov. 15.


DMAP TO FOCUS DEER HUNTER PRESSURE ON AREAS MOST IN NEED
The Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a Deer Management Assistance Program (DMAP) that is designed to address specific deer management objectives within the new wildlife management units.

&quot;While many people thought new deer management units would be smaller than the current county-based units, the development of the new wildlife management units demonstrated that smaller units would not be practical,&quot; said Dr. Gary Alt, Game Commission Deer Management Section supervisor. &quot;Using the new larger wildlife management units, DMAP will enable public and private landowners to address deer management goals on a more localized basis.

&quot;DMAP also is designed to help build a better relationship between hunters and landowners so that we can get the right number of antlerless deer harvested in the right areas. By doing so, we hope to improve the deer herd and lessen deer impacts on the habitat.&quot;

Eligible lands for the 2003-2004 license year are publicly-owned lands, and privately-owned lands enrolled in one of the Game Commission's public access programs (Farm Game, Forest Game or Safety Zone). Completed applications must be submitted to the appropriate regional office by July 1 immediately preceding the fall deer hunting season.

DMAP is designed to help specific landowners in five classifications with different criteria. The programs are:

-- Small Landowner Program includes those with less than 1,000 contiguous acres. One DMAP license will be issued for every 50 acres enrolled in DMAP. Additional DMAP licenses may be allocated dependent on current conditions relative to goals and objectives outlined in a Commission approved management plan;

-- Agriculture Program includes land where material destruction of cultivated crops, fruit trees or vegetables by deer has been or can be documented by the Commission. One DMAP license will be allocated for every five acres enrolled in DMAP. Additional DMAP licenses may be allocated dependent on current conditions relative to goals and objectives outlined in a Commission approved management plan;

-- Urban Program includes land owned or controlled by municipalities or community associations. The number of DMAP licenses allocated will depend on current conditions relative to goals and objectives outlined in a Commission approved management plan;

-- Conservation Program includes land where deer damage to threatened or endangered plant and/or animal species or communities in which they live has been documented or can be documented by the applicant. The number of DMAP licenses allocated will depend on current conditions relative to goals and objectives outlined in a Commission approved management plan; and

--Large Landowner Program includes those with more than 1,000 contiguous acres of land. The number of DMAP licenses allocated will depend on current conditions relative to goals and objectives outlined in a Commission approved management plan. Applicants engaged in forestry must provide information about forestry practices for the property being enrolled.

Upon approval of the application, landowners must post signs stating that the land is enrolled in DMAP. Landowners will receive one coupon for each DMAP license allocated for their property. Landowners may not give more than one DMAP coupon to a licensed hunter, who will then apply for the DMAP license. Hunters may possess only one DMAP license for a specific DMAP area in any given license year.

DMAP license allocations will be made separate from the general antlerless deer license allocations, but will follow the same fee scheduled as the general antlerless licenses ($6 for residents and $26 for non residents).


BOARD CONTINUES ELK AND BOBCAT SEASONS
The Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to hold Pennsylvania's third elk season Nov. 10-15, which is a week earlier than the previous two seasons. Both antlered and antlerless elk will be legal game. The number of elk licenses available for the 2003 season will be determined by the Board at a later date. Successful applicants will be determined through a public drawing scheduled for Saturday, Sept. 27.

One of the changes for the coming elk season will be the merging of two elk wildlife management units, thereby reducing the total number of units from 12 to 11. Unit 11, which was comprised primarily of privately-owned land, will be combined with Unit 1, which is made up of large tracts of publicly-owned lands, and thereby offer licensed elk hunters assigned to this new unit better access to huntable lands.

Interested hunters will be able to make application for one of the elk licenses through the mail or by going to the agency's webpage (www.pgc.state.pa.us) beginning in late April. All applications must be accompanied by a nonrefundable $10 application fee.

For the third year in a row, the Game Commission has pledged to earmark the first 10,000 application fees, for a total of $100,000, for habitat improvement in the elk range. The Game Commission's three-year pledge is part of a $1.2 million commitment that includes funding from the state Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Dominion Resources, Sinnemahoning Sportsmens Club, and the Lehigh Valley Chapter of Safari Club International. So far, this joint effort has resulted in 225 acres of improved habitat within the elk range.

(For more information on this pledge and the results of the 2001 elk season, see Game Commission News Release #102-01 in the &quot;Newsroom&quot; on the agency's website at www.pgc.state.pa.us.)

The Board also gave preliminary approval to the state's fourth consecutive bobcat hunting and trapping season for 2003-2004. Sportsmen and sportswomen with a bobcat hunting and trapping permit may harvest one bobcat in Wildlife Management Units 2F, 2G, 3A, 3B, 3C and 3D. The bobcat hunting season will take place starting Oct. 18, and ending Feb. 21, 2004. The trapping portion of the season will be Oct. 19, through Feb. 21, 2004.

Successful permit holders will be determined through a public drawing with the number of permits to be determined at a later date. Applications will be accepted through the mail and over the Game Commission's website (www.pgc.state.pa.us).

The Board also gave preliminary approval to creating a preference system for individuals who have previously applied for the public bobcat permit drawing. Under the system, anyone who submits an application for the drawing will have all previous year's applications included until they are successfully drawn for a permit.


SMALL GAME OPPORTUNITIES EXPANDED
The Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to expanded small game hunting opportunities for 2003-2004.

Under the proposed framework, small game seasons for rabbits, pheasants and bobwhite quail will begin the same time as the squirrel and ruffed grouse seasons: Saturday, Oct. 18. If adopted in April, this will give rabbit, pheasant and bobwhite quail hunters two additional weeks of hunting during the upcoming season.

The Board also gave preliminary approval to close the late small game hunting on Dec. 23, rather than Dec. 24. There is no late season small game hunting on Dec. 25.


PROPOSED 2003-2004 HUNTING SEASONS AND BAG LIMITS

SQUIRRELS, Red, Gray, Black and Fox (Combined): Special season for eligible junior hunters, with or without required license - Oct. 11-13 (6 daily, 12 in possession limit after first day).

SQUIRRELS, Red, Gray, Black and Fox (Combined): Fall Season - Oct. 18-Nov. 29; Late Seasons - Dec. 15-23, and Dec. 26-Feb. 7, 2004 (6 daily, 12 in possession limit after first day).

RUFFED GROUSE: Oct. 18-Nov. 29, Dec. 15-23 and Dec. 26-Jan. 10, 2004 (2 daily, 4 possession). There is no open season for taking ruffed grouse in that portion of State Game Lands No. 176 in Centre County which is posted &quot;RESEARCH AREA - NO GROUSE HUNTING.&quot;

RABBIT (Cottontail): Oct. 18-Nov. 29, Dec. 15-23 and Dec. 26-Feb. 7, 2004 (4 daily, 8 possession).

PHEASANT: Special season for eligible junior hunters, with or without required license - Oct. 11-13 (2 daily, 4 in possession).

PHEASANT: Male Only - Oct. 18-Nov. 29. Male and female in designated areas - Oct. 18-29, Dec. 15-23 and Dec. 26-Feb. 7, 2004 (2 daily, 4 in possession).

BOBWHITE QUAIL: Oct. 18-Nov. 29 (4 daily, 8 possession). (Closed in WMUs 4A, 4B, 5A, 5B, 5C and 5D.)

HARES (SNOWSHOE RABBITS) OR VARYING HARES: Dec. 26-Jan. 3, 2004 (1 daily, 2 possession).

WOODCHUCKS (GROUNDHOGS): No closed season except during the antlered and antlerless deer seasons and until noon daily during the spring gobbler turkey season.

CROWS: July 4-Nov. 30, and Dec. 26-April 4, 2004, on Friday, Saturday and Sunday only. No limit.

STARLINGS AND ENGLISH SPARROWS: No closed season except during the antlered and antlerless deer seasons and until noon daily during the spring gobbler turkey season. No limit.

WILD TURKEY (Male or Female): Wildlife Management Units 1A, 2A and 2B (Shotgun and bow and arrow)- Nov. 1-22; WMU 1B - Nov. 1-15; WMUs 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2G, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D and 4E - Nov. 1-22; WMUs 5A and 5B - CLOSED TO FALL TURKEY HUNTING; and WMUs 5C and 5D - Nov. 1-8. (1 bird limit, either sex).

SPRING GOBBLER (Bearded bird only): May 1-29, 2004. (1 bird limit)

BLACK BEAR (Statewide): Nov. 24-26. One bear per hunting license year.

BLACK BEAR (WMU 3D): Dec. 1-6. One bear per hunting license year.

ELK (Antlered or Antlerless): Nov. 10-15. Daily and season limit: one.

DEER, ARCHERY (Antlered and Antlerless) Statewide: Oct.4-Nov. 15 and Dec. 26-Jan. 10, 2004. One antlered deer per hunting license year. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER (Antlered and Antlerless) Statewide: Dec. 1-13. One antlered deer per hunting license year. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

ANTLERLESS DEER (Statewide): Oct. 23-25. Junior and Senior License Holders, Disabled Person Permit (to use a vehicle) Holders, and Pennsylvania residents serving on active duty in the U.S. Armed Services or in the U.S. Coast Guard only, with required antlerless license. Also included are persons who have reached or will reach their 65th birthday in the year of the application for a license and hold a valid adult license, or qualify for license and fee exemptions under section 2706. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERLESS MUZZLELOADER (Statewide): Oct. 18-25. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERED OR ANTLERLESS FLINTLOCK (Statewide): Dec. 26-Jan. 10, 2004. One antlered per hunting license year, or one antlerless deer and an additional antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERLESS (Military Bases): Hunting permitted on days established by the U.S. Department of the Army at Letterkenny Army Depot, Franklin County; New Cumberland Army Depot, York County; and Fort Detrick, Raven Rock Site, Adams County. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, Antlerless (WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D): Dec. 26-Jan. 10, 2004. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.


PROPOSED 2003-2004 FURBEARER HUNTING SEASONS

RACCOON & FOXES: Oct. 18-Feb. 21, 2004, unlimited.

COYOTE, OPOSSUM, SKUNKS & WEASELS: No closed season, with certain exceptions during deer and spring turkey seasons. No limits.

BOBCAT (WMUs 2F, 2G, 3A, 3B, 3C and 3D): Oct. 18-Feb. 21, 2004. One per permit. (Bobcats may only be taken by furtakers in possession of a Bobcat Hunting-Trapping permit.)


PROPOSED 2003-2004 TRAPPING SEASONS

MINK & MUSKRAT: Nov. 22-Jan. 10, 2004. Unlimited.

COYOTE, FOXES, OPOSSUM, RACCOON, SKUNKS, WEASELS: Oct. 19-Feb. 21, 2004. No limit.

BEAVER (Statewide): Dec. 26-March 31, 2004 (Limits vary depending on WMU).

BOBCAT (WMUs 2F, 2G, 3A, 3B, 3C and 3D): Oct. 19-Feb. 21, 2004. One per permit. (Bobcats may only be taken by furtakers in possession of a Bobcat Hunting-Trapping permit.)


PROPOSED 2003-2004 FALCONRY SEASONS

SQUIRRELS (combined), QUAIL, RUFFED GROUSE, COTTONTAIL RABBITS, SNOWSHOE OR VARYING HARE, RINGNECK PHEASANT (Male or Female combined): Sept. 1-March 31, 2004. Daily and Field Possession limits vary.

No open season on other wild birds or mammals. Waterfowl and Migratory Game Bird seasons will be established in accordance with Federal Regulations this summer.

# # #

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

mhogan, I agree with ya. It takes a good speaker to get to them. There is a way to do it, it just takes the right person with a way of speaking to get a point across. Also with the way people act at these meeting I don't blame them for the way they act. They have been slammed and told off be people. That is no way to get to them and puts there guard up and they try to aviod conflicts so not to start problems. NOW it will be harder to get to them do to previous outbursts or worse.

brian

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Under the proposed framework, small game seasons for rabbits, pheasants and bobwhite quail will begin the same time as the squirrel and ruffed grouse seasons: Saturday, Oct. 18. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

As a self-admitted greedy, October-loving archery hunter I must admit that I am very upset to hear of this. Did they not try this 2 or 3 years ago only to find that most small game hunters didn't like it for a variety of reasons...not the least of which being the warmer weather and the increased number of ticks found on the dogs?

I have to complain a little bit because this now effectively reduces archery season in my stomping grounds down to 2 weeks.

How about we institute all of these &quot;overlap seasons&quot; in the month of October just from Route 80 Northwards?

<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Remember, none of this is law. It now eneters the 90 day comment period. Generally the decisions are made in April. The PFB has opposed this early season in the past because of fears of trampled crops before harvest.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Mark,

Why does it seem that none of the expanded archery opportunities are ever given any serious consideration?

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

I often wondered why they don't expand the archery season. What do you think about the early muzzle loader season? I personally don't like it.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

I just got an in-line for Christmas so how could I hate the new early muzzle loader season?

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Well sounds like they haven't screwed us too badly... yet. New antlerless tag procedure sending it to them instead of to the county treasurer and same with bonus tags. Harldy the end of the world there.

I am not a huge fan of the early muzzleloading season but better to shoot does before they are bred then to shoot a buck later in the year after antlers are shed (if we are truly into the spirit of the AR) As long as they don't screw with late flintlock season I have no issue there. We don't hunt our tract during the early season with the smoke poles because we would rather not pressure any more deer but to each their own. They actually voted to extend the application deadline until November 15 instead of August 31. I have to say I like that move gives folks more time to get a flintlock and not have to worry about getting it so early in the year. Now we just have to see what the antlerless allocations for each county end up being.

My group has at least 6 unused antlerless tags out of the 6 of us so that we know our herd will have some balance instead of killing off the does. AR and the increase in doe tags really justifies the arguement that they are trying to thin the herd. But if hunter's are patient and pass on the does and small bucks there will be a payoff down the road but the onus of that falls upon the hunter's to not shoot one just because they have a tag. Yes we are fortunate to hunt private lands so we are afforded that luxury. Well Hope everyone had a great season cause I am hanging up the smokepole and starting to look for the waskily wabbits and squirells

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Mark, once again we all owe you for your unselfish efforts to inform those of us who either cant or dont make the time. Sounds like the changes are mostly positive. I do think it's a shame that we arent utilizing an expanded early doe only archery season the help get a doe kill before the rut. Oh well, more good than bad is happening here in good ol Pa

Three cheers for Mark Hogan <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> our insider informant!!

Member of NRA, BASS, Buckmasters and Life member of UBP.........Kill a big doe, Let the little bucks grow

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Simpler H*LL now I have to try and figure out which of the four WMUs that cuts Lycoming Co.apart I want a doe tag for. IT was a whole lot simpler with county tags.Not to mention I was hoping that AR would be gone but. <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

First, thanks Mark for getting this info up for us. I see 2 things that bug me. 1 the early opening of regular small game. Like frank said that takes archery down to 2 weeks without interference. And 2 my main hunting area is now part of 2B which loses the antler restriction<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> and now gets an added 2 weeks of rifle after christmas. <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> there is NO WAY you could consider the southern half of armstrong county below 422 suburban hunting which wants all the deer dead. I'm sure we will be seeing a lot of guys grumble about the designation of thier hunting area.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

I think that the WMU will be marked with solid boundries like major roads will make them easier to know where you are. County boundries were always a nightmare for me. Usually an invisable line cutting across the land.

My opinion on in-lines are that they are doing the work that the deer management team asked in removing the pre-rut does. That it will soon be a very popular season. That it will never go away. And finally that it will pressure the deer and affect the archery huntings adversly. I hope it is a bargaining chip we can use someday to ask for more season.

We don't see our requests for more season seriously considered in archery because: Many rifle only hunters speakout against us getting the first crack at &quot;their&quot; bucks. That we are hunting them when they are stupid and anyone could get one then. Because the none of the commissioners bow hunt. Because Alt and Co. that might support them presently have their hands full with season changes and are already a big enough target for the idiots.



Edited by - mhogan on 01/09/2003 07:01:28

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Mhogan, I agree that many rifle hunters speak out against archery season but if Alt is any bit of a deer biologist he would know that rifle hunters complaining about &quot;stupid&quot; bucks is B.S. I personally think that they should expand archery season. As for early muzzle loader I don't like it, i don't know why but I think they should have left it for late season only. What do you or anyone else think about crossbows? Should they be legal for all or not?

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Turd, I like the early muzzy season so far. I haven't seen much pressure for that week in my area, so it isn't hurting anything here(NE Warren Co.).

As far as crossbows....if they want to implement them into rifel season that's fine with me, but I don't want them in archery season. I personally think too many guys will buy one thinking it's more like a rifle than a bow....and try to take too long of shots. There are a good many rifle hunters that would come into archery season with this mentallity and end up wounding and losing deer. That's strictly my opinion....myabe I'm wrong, but with the actions I see from hunters in rifle season I don't want to see the same thing in archery season.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

The biologists don't set the regulations. A panel on commissioners does. Their piority just isn't helping bow hunters have more fun right now. Their feeling is, &quot;Geeze, you already get 6 weeks, being a little greedy aren't ya?&quot;

I agree with Jason on crossbows in archery season. And they are presently allowed in rifle season.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Crossbows are only allowed in the Special Regs areas for the general firearms season and special seasons.

There wasn't any talk of making crossbows legal in archery season, was there?

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Jason, crossbows were allowed in 2 week traditional rifle season across the state for this past season.

You won't see them then though.

They have requested that they be allowed to be used in SRA's for all seasons and I believe they will be approved in all but the regular archery season there in April. That proposal was made and is in the 90 day comment period. Their argument is that if you really want the deer hervested in SRA's, you ought to give the rifle hunters a tool they could easily use and join bowhunters. We need to fight that as most of our bowhunting friends that hunt in SRA's would want us to.

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Thanks for clearing that up Mark. My apologies!

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

Just for the record, I am not necessarily &quot;against&quot; the muzzleloader or two day-junior/senior rifle hunt in October...exactly. I have no problem with folks who want to use those weapons prior to the rut....

...but I rather don't like the fact that it overlaps..and therefore reduces the amount of time that bowhunters have in the woods...alone. Extending the archery season back, at least two weeks, into September would be a fine solution to this..in my opinion.

I do not really want to sound like I am complaining but this past season bowhunters basically had the first Saturday of archery &quot;free&quot; from other hunter's influence..then the second Saturday was that experimental youth pheasant hunt. In my stomping grounds that was basically the same thing as having regular small game season opening a few weeks early...as even though only youth could shoot the pheasants there were still two or three more individuals with them while they were hunting.

Then the following weekend was when the muzzleloader season started...and then the following weekend was small game hunting. So, in essence, for those of us who might only be able to hunt on a Saturday each week..and on public land...there was basically only one of the day season when they could bowhunt...uninterrupted.

Part of the nature of our sport almost requires that there not be any other hunting disturbances occuring in order for us to be even remotely effective in our attempt to aid in balancing the deer herd. We need to have the deer close...and not moving in order for us to even stand a reasonable chance of harvesting an animal. Having an excessive amount of other hunters in the woods while folks are trying to bowhunt is detrimental to this and directly affects the outcome of the hunt.

Here is something that I don't think many folks have considered....if small game is pushed back to the 3rd Saturday of archery next year and the youth pheasant hunt is again scheduled for the second Saturday then will be again left with just one Saturday without interruption. Not only that but small game and the early muzzleloader season will also both be starting on the same day....which means more hunters in the October woods on the same day than ever before.

Not to sound bitter but I wouldn't be surprised if the Game Commission moved the muzzleloader hunt earlier by a week so this doesn't happen....and then in turn move the youth pheasant hunt back to a week before that...thus leaving no Saturday as a day for archery only.

Rifle hunters have two uninterrupted weeks of hunting.....small game hunters basically have the last two weeks of their season uninterrupted (minus the 3 days for bear)...why can't we have at least two weeks of uninterrupted hunting?




















Edited by - PABowhntr on 01/10/2003 08:17:07

RE: 2003 PGC Meeting to determine new regs Jan 5-7
 

I understand. It is a valid complaint, I believe. I'm not so thrilled with the earlier start idea becauyse of the green leaves and heat, but would support it for others. My goal has always been that third week in November, but really see no reason that we shouldn't be able to archery hunt 9/15 to 1/31.