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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Dan,I don't think anyone is saying(including the PGC)thatit would be impossible for them to be in Pa.I think we all agree that it isn't that far-fetched that someone could have released a pet that they couldn't handle or that some people may even intentionally let them go.There's certainly enough wacko's out there.I also don't think that anyone is saying it's impossible to have one migrate into Pa.I'd say that's a long shot and an even longer shot that they'd happen on to a mate but definately not impossible.
Most just want to see some credible evidence instead of a blurry picture or an urbanlegend that no one can ever prove.There's been plenty of sightings lately but it seems to me that indisputable proof should have been easy to find with all the snow we have.I would never say never but I still want to see some valid proof. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Dan, the eastern cougar has been thought to be extinct for a long, long time.
Cougar behavior is pretty well documented as to migration, territorial areas and loyalty to those territories and such. Of course, some migration takes place in search of food or because of disputes. I’m not well enough versed, without my books handy to do a synopsis on it, but suffice to say, “hard evidence” of “wild” cougars is the determining factor for saying they do exist in a particular area. The thing that many folks are misinformed about is the thought that cougars are these ghosts of the forests and somehow leave no sign when in fact they leave copious amounts of identification sign. Cougar kills are very identifiable as are tracks, scat, scratching trees, den sites and paw prints. Also, in South Dakota, 7 road-kill cougars were picked up in the Black Hills in a period of 3 months. The entire population of the Black Hills is estimated to only be around 200 cougars. So, the idea that they never show themselves and are so elusive that they cannot be documented to exist, just is not truth. Yes, pets have been released and recaptured or killed. All cases that I know of to date have been domestic releases. ”How does anyone that never seen one say for sure they do not excist here? That isvery ignorant thinking.” I haven’t seen anyone on here say – they absolutely do not exist. Most of us react to sensationalism that is borne out of emotion and sometimes someone just wanting attention for having “sighted” something rare and special. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
I can't speak for trappers Phil and I'm not sure what you mean in changing the way we hunt. I don't know why anyone would change anything even if the extinct cat was found to not really be extinct. Also up here on a section of Route # 6 one has been said to have been seen. The follow up has been stated to have found a female with 3 cubs with her. Are they from released cats? or are they the real thing? They are in fact believed to be the real thing. There is long stretches of roads with out much in the line of human activity and the possibility of them being real is questionable. But, one cat with 3 cubs says there must be another one someplace relatively close by. I hope if they are real no one really finds out if it means more legal issues for the state and all the sportsmen that enjoy it. So why can't my question be answered? |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: Cougardaville ORIGINAL: NorthPA Thanks Cougardaville, you keep helping out the rational side. From that link: "The lack of claw marks on the back and shoulders could mean the cat is a declawed animal that escaped or was released from captivity." [/align]I am certain if I were to post a picture of a mountain lion or a track......the first thing you would all say is the picture was taken in Idaho,Washington, Montana whereverand is still no proof. So why ask for pictures or this type of proof? A dead body of a mountain lion, killed by a car, trapped or from a bullet in the state of Pa .would be proof of the mountain only if you were present. Therefore why would any body in their right minds share that information on this site. [/align]Maybe if you guys would lighten up a bit, some would share information more freely. [/align]I personally believe all the mountain lions that are seen in the East have been released or escaped. I don't know who has done this, but what matters is you have a large predator that once depended on a human to survive. Then this animal is dumped for what ever reason into the wild to fend for itself. Some make it and do well others are not having it so easy, these are the ones that people are seeing. These cats do not have the totally wild instincts to hide and be secretive, they are looking for a easy meal with no FEAR of humans. That should cause concern and alarm! Any wild animal imprinted on humans is much more dangerous than one that is of the wild. Imprinting is irreversible, so where does it leave this large meat eater that may not have good hunting and survival skills? It leaves them in trouble! They are hungry and showing themselves. [/align]I think it is a waste of time and money on the FEDS part to be searching the Eastern states for Eastern cougars that we know are extinct. I think this is the cause and effect of the pro cougar people forcing government agencies to do the study. They still have high hopes a decade later that this animal exist. If they don't do the study, more money than the study will be spentwill be spent in lawsuits. [/align]PGC and DEC along with every other Eastern agent have claimed over and over these are escapes and releases.......My opinion that's what I believe they are also. My simple reasoning is the way this cat acts. Compare the action of these cats to the totally wild ones in the west where they are known and populated. [/align]The Wild cats out west are the "Ghost cats".The cats here is the East are a product of a western cat, with an Eastern attitude.....not wild!! [/align] [/align][/align]Cougardaville [/align] |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: NorthPA Cougardaville, Yes, much of what I post in this topic is said tongue in cheek or --- with sarcasm. I apologize if you thought “all” of my comments were aimed at you – they were not. I’m sure if you read back over this discussion you will find several posts that imply conspiracies. The things I pointedly mentioned; trailer loads of cougars and such, “have” been alleged or outright claimed to be true. You are correct, my idea of proof is a responsible agency or wildlife professional stating that; we have determined this particular sighting is credible and that it is a mountain lion. All the “reported sightings” in the world are nothing more than someone saying they saw something. You say, “No one is attacking the PGC in this thread,” yet you go on to ask, “Are you all game officers? Do you work for PGC? The defensiveness is loud and clear! That may not be an “attack” but it sure shows where your mind is. Nope, my opinion is not the only one, it is open to change – with sustainable proof. “I am certain if I were to post a picture of a mountain lion or a track......the first thing you would all say is the picture was taken in Idaho,Washington, Montana whereverand is still no proof.” “So why ask for pictures or this type of proof? “ “I personally believe all the mountain lions that are seen in the East have been released or escaped.” north, you are not correct,WCO have been notified to meet and take tracks and they refused to come out YEARS AGO.. i know, i called..you know what the response was?here is WCO from clearfields answer to me,years ago..SPROUL, I DONT BELIEVE A COUGAR EXISTS AND GROUND IS TOO HARD TO TAKE TRACKS.. now, i am not bashing the WCO,heck if i was like you and your other non-believers,i would most likely not be interested.. if that WCO would have met with me,we would have had a COUGAR track,trust me on that.. now, i understand up until now that most WCO are coming out to investigate,yes, heat is on.. yet, PGC says to forward our sighting to the FEDS NOW.. most of us dont like to betold we dont know what we saw..we are being told we dont know how to hunt, dont get off road,we only walk 100 yards into woods,we are stupid hunters deer are wayback dumbies,wannabees see deer,ole sproul and other hunters see very few..we see coyotes killing deer, wanabees say its bear.. now you know why there is so much hate,then you guys team up and come after everyone that saw a cougar.. could it be you folks are MAD that you never saw one,hmmmmmmmm.. trust ole sproul, when you see one it will drop your mouth WIDE OPEN when it is as close to me as one i saw.. yes, 1 i saw had a 2 ft tail!! |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
That's it - I am jealous and never realized it.
Thanks for clearing that up. When is the next truckload of coyotes due? Steve |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
I wonder what WCO R.S.Bodenhorn knows of this topic? I for one have family in and around the Clinton co. area who say that a cat deffinately exists??? i have not seen it,,nor do i want to! I am not going to be arrogant enough to say that there is no way that a mt. lion exists in Pa. I hope they stay extinct due to a squimish feeling that comes over me thinking that a cat that could very well kill me may be watching me walk in to my treestand at 4:30 opening morning. This i do know,,,the people that say a cat exists are very shroud folks who want nothing from no one,,,they dont want to be the one to discover the undiscovered and i can promise ya this,,if thosesame folks happen to see the "cat" whilein thepresense of a firearm,,,they wont be rushing out to the lock haven express or emailing their fed agents to show "proof"
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
This i do know,,,the people that say a cat exists are very shroud folks who want nothing from no one,,,they dont want to be the one to discover the undiscovered and i can promise ya this,,if thosesame folks happen to see the "cat" whilein thepresense of a firearm,,,they wont be rushing out to the lock haven express or emailing their fed agents to show "proof" Cougardaville will this Eastern Cougar if discovered to be in existent altar the way folks hunt and trap in that state? Yes or NO? |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Sproul, you gotta be kidding!
I've hunted and seen more species of wild game in more states, provinces and foreign countries than you'll ever see. Forget the "mad that you never saw one" stuff. I can’t speak for each and every WCO and neither can you. I spoke of the “PGC” past and present agency policy on this. If there are reasonable reports and manpower is available they “do” check it out. In your case, I don’t know what your standing with the local WCO is. I am not being smart here, but just judging from some of your posts here --- I most likely would not respond either. My reason for saying that is just look how you distorted my position as a “non-believer.” All most of us are saying is that we don’t jump on the bandwagon based on emotion. We ask for reliable data and evidence -- that's all. Look at that entire paragraph where you got off topic and exaggerated, distorted and misquoted the PGC: “told we dont know what we saw..we are being told we dont know how to hunt, dont get off road,we only walk 100 yards into woods,we are stupid hunters deer are wayback dumbies,wannabees see deer,ole sproul and other hunters see very few..we see coyotes killing deer, wanabees say its bear.. “ “yet, PGC says to forward our sighting to the FEDS NOW.. “ |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
You are asking a question on what the Feds will do If there really are Eastern cougars. I don't think anybody but the Feds know, if They even do.
The Animal Rights groups want to end trapping ASAP so if they are after you in Maine for trapping Lynx by accident, they have their toe in the door to completely ban trapping. That is their goal and they are using the Lynx for a front. All Hunters need to band together to keep any legal means of taking game legal. Trapping is a very useful means of controling predators and also has been used to live trap otters for relocation. They used LEGHOLD ones to trap the otters too! |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
This has turned into a good conversation! [/align][/align]My personal opinion......for what it is worth......I have already had contact with the FEDS and asked many questions, even some of what folks think are the ridiculous ones, but I figured what the heck I had their ear, I asked. In fact I asked 25, and they answered. I will link you to that.[/align][/align]http://www.trackincats.com/questionslash.php[/align][/align]My feeling about the study that is going on is nothing more than the pro cougar, eco freaks forcing our government agencies to do something or there will be lawsuits!! There is a Recovery Plandocument that says we agree to study and search for cougars every five years. This has not been done, until now. The people that want to prove the EASTERN COUGAR has survived are waiting for this.This would keep them or put them on an Endangered species list and become protected. The only panther (cougar) that is Federally protected is the Florida panther, which even that cat needs to de-listed since they brought Western cats in to repopulate( gene pool gone bad) They suffer a loss of habituate and are being hit by carsor killed by other panthers. Even though we know there is no way to PROVE and EASTERN cougar since there is NO DNA data base to compare to make a real and positiveanalysis.These are free roaming non -listed mountain lion sub species.[/align][/align]Some are asking the hunting laws for the mountain lion, cougar, puma. That is a great question and one of our goals. BUT what will it mean?? EACH STATE will have to set their laws and boundaries for this cat if proven they exist in that state. That means MONEY will have to be allotted in each budget for this animal. I would guess it would be a large sum. They willneed agents that are specially trained to deal with this animal. Special equipment would need to be purchased for this large predator.Then if you didhave a livestock or pet killed, would the state be responsible to pay you foryour loss?What about a human attack? The state of California now is budgeting for these losses. [/align][/align]I hope as the FEDS do their study they don't even step on the brakes......keep trucking! I do not want to see this held up for 20 years determining if this Eastern cat is here or not! I also think they need to be DE-listed inALL states from the Endangered Species list. Too much time and money is spent through our tax dollars on an animal that does not require this protection.Take thenumbers of mountain lionsin all the Western statesplus others that have proof the cat existand don't forget howmany are in cages, what's the total?? I don't think we are about to see this animal go extinct any time soon, if ever.[/align][/align]What we do needis safety precautions per state. We need a management plan if they are here. We need not to go to jail or pay fines if you have to protect your animals or selffrom this cat! Then if we start seeing too many of these predators, part of the management plan would be a controlled hunt by the government agencies or make it a Big Game animal. All we need in some "Common sense" [/align][/align]Cougardaville[/align][/align]
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
i just got off phone with williamsport gazzzette,this is lycoming co.in pa..
they are getting all kinds of calls on COUGARS in lycoming co..a trapper put article in paper yesterday and stated what the PGC said about yotes..he was told 20 years ago that yotes dont exist,he said they told him they were FERAL DOGS.. now, he sees cougar and they told him its a DOMESTIC PET..i wonder if its same person in the PGC that told me same and ground was too hard 15 years ago? how does PGC knowthat thse cougars are domestic pets? why is lycoming co. being flooded with cougar sighting? what is being done by the PGC to investigate these sighting? if these pets have 2 ft tails ,why are they being judged as being a bobcat? lots of questions,i agree that some are sighting of bobcat,some pictures i saw were bobcats,but when you see a 2 ft tail behind a huge cat,that not a bobcat no matter what a track tells you!! |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
First of all the trapper is full of crap.I was on hand at least 4 times prior to 1986 when coyotes were killed in deer season.The PGC did not state 20 years ago that we had no coyotes so right off the bat,he's full of it.We still have snow.Any mountain lions being spotted would surely leave tracks.
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Thank You Cougardaville, for trying to answer some of these questions and no doubt the best you could. As, we all know the pro cougar and eco freaks are the real problem for all of us. I also feel that back in the day that all the Eastern Cougars were wiped out that no way could it be possible to cover every nook and cranny this state has to offer. Did they survive it back then ? I am sure that no one really knows 100% of that answer. Could it be that some of the cougars seen here are from released/escaped cats again yes it could. Now for the one with three cubs could that also be possible for those to breed? I think yes it could but, how would they meet up with each other in such a large area, if they were released. Wouldn't they stay together if they were from released animals? Anyways thanks for answering my question.
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Lets do some thinking here... Florida has about estimate of 50 panthers. The male panther has a home range of up to 400 miles and the female up to 100.
The Florida panther can not go southto migrate when the population increases and the fight over home range begins. The Florida panther can only move north at first. Now from what I have read about these cats they do not tolerate to much of an overlap with other males in their home range. It is very possible that with a 400 mile home range for a male cat that the eastern states can be part of a cats range. What really comes into play now on this range is abundant of prey for these animals. I believe Pa. Was the richest state that was abundant prey for these cats. It was a paradise for ML. If we look at the map we see something that also atracts ML and is a natural home area for them. The Appalachian Mountains that runs pretty much up through the heart of Pa.. Mountains are a key to travel patterns of the ML. I would have to say one way for sure to prove that we have cats here in the east is with ML in heat urine.Cats mark their territory with urine and the female also marks and the male searches for her. Now if you was to get female ML in heat urine and make a mock scrape and place a camera watching it. If there is any MLs around they will come and investigate the markings. I believe this will be about the fastest way of knowing for sure. Set mock scrapes up and watch what happens. MLs come into heat all times of the year unlike other animals whos time are specific during the year. Maybe someone might want to try this approach to get positive proof or not? |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
We still have snow.Any mountain lions being spotted would surely leave tracks. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: DougE First of all the trapper is full of crap.I was on hand at least 4 times prior to 1986 when coyotes were killed in deer season.The PGC did not state 20 years ago that we had no coyotes so right off the bat,he's full of it.We still have snow.Any mountain lions being spotted would surely leave tracks. lycoming co.is hot right now, sighting are abundant there in last 2 months.. most of sighting that were confirmed by me, ole sproul,were from june to dec..i believe each person that told me what they saw.. the people i talked to this was the time they saw a cougar..including me.. here is another one,MOST of sighting were in middle of dirt roads while driving,the cougar would stop, look back, then run, tail flapping..SAME as my sighting.. also MOST were in daylight ,just at sunrise or before dark.. i just got off the phone with a construction foream..he rides the beech creek rd to get to work..he hunts, is 62 years old ,been in woods all his life..he said he saw cougar 3 TIMES on that road,that is clinton/centre county..all sighting were 20 yards in front of his truck in the road and cougar had a long tail.. THERE IS YOUR CONFIRMED SIGHTING..if these are DOMESTIC CATS as pgc is saying, boy, they are really in some wild areas .. doug, if you want to help, find out why most of sighting are from june /dec..maybe cougars leave and return in spring or maybe that timeframe is when most of us are in woods.. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
This really is getting too silly.
Over 20 years ago, The PennsylvaniaGame News published an article about coyotes being wolf hybrids in PA. Coyotes have been known to habiuate the Northeast since the 1920's --- enough of the conspircay garbage already. Now cougars are "snow birds" and go somewhere else for winter!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Cougardaville for a rational post. Too bad some others don't follow your lead. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: NorthPA This really is getting too silly. Over 20 years ago, The PennsylvaniaGame News published an article about coyotes being wolf hybrids in PA. Coyotes have been known to habiuate the Northeast since the 1920's --- enough of the conspircay garbage already. Now cougars are "snow birds" and go somewhere else for winter!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Cougardaville for a rational post. Too bad some others don't follow your lead. i dont know..just a guess, no facts that cougars may leave and come back ..but then sighting that are happening,bigtime in lycoming co. throws some of that out window,at least in that county.. if we are not seeing tracks in snow, only answer is the cougars have left..or other reasons i cannot answer.. only i bit of advice, YOU ARE WRONG IF YOU THINK WE HAVE NOT SEEN COUGARS..trust me, they are here.. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
May I allso say about the snow and tracks. Are these the same people who don't agree with MLs in pennsylvania the same one who argues up and down that people don't go off the beaten path. The majority of the hunters don't see deer because they don't venture more than acouple hundred yards off the roads? Now if this is true what are the chances of more people seeing signs of these cats if they don't venture into the secluded areas where these cats could live?
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: Phil from Maine Thank You Cougardaville, for trying to answer some of these questions and no doubt the best you could. As, we all know the pro cougar and eco freaks are the real problem for all of us. I also feel that back in the day that all the Eastern Cougars were wiped out that no way could it be possible to cover every nook and cranny this state has to offer. Did they survive it back then ? I am sure that no one really knows 100% of that answer. Could it be that some of the cougars seen here are from released/escaped cats again yes it could. Now for the one with three cubs could that also be possible for those to breed? I think yes it could but, how would they meet up with each other in such a large area, if they were released. Wouldn't they stay together if they were from released animals? Anyways thanks for answering my question. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: Dan_15801 Lets do some thinking here... Florida has about estimate of 50 panthers. The male panther has a home range of up to 400 miles and the female up to 100. The Florida panther can not go southto migrate when the population increases and the fight over home range begins. The Florida panther can only move north at first. Now from what I have read about these cats they do not tolerate to much of an overlap with other males in their home range. It is very possible that with a 400 mile home range for a male cat that the eastern states can be part of a cats range. What really comes into play now on this range is abundant of prey for these animals. I believe Pa. Was the richest state that was abundant prey for these cats. It was a paradise for ML. If we look at the map we see something that also atracts ML and is a natural home area for them. The Appalachian Mountains that runs pretty much up through the heart of Pa.. Mountains are a key to travel patterns of the ML. I would have to say one way for sure to prove that we have cats here in the east is with ML in heat urine.Cats mark their territory with urine and the female also marks and the male searches for her. Now if you was to get female ML in heat urine and make a mock scrape and place a camera watching it. If there is any MLs around they will come and investigate the markings. I believe this will be about the fastest way of knowing for sure. Set mock scrapes up and watch what happens. MLs come into heat all times of the year unlike other animals whos time are specific during the year. Maybe someone might want to try this approach to get positive proof or not? Cougardaville |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Sproul,you're all over the place.You say mountain lions move out in the winter and then turn around and say there's been numerous sightings over the past two months.Where's the tracks?If they're seen on a dirt road,they obviously get off the road at some point where tracks could easily be found.
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Doug - if they got off the road, how could they know asome oneis coming and be able to accurately and safelytime their crossing to be 20 yds or less in front of the vehicle. They have to stay out of the deep snow to continue to be seen.:D
Steve |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Sproulman, my comment was mostly about you bringing false, (PGC coyote), information into this discussion. My point being that if you make false statements about that, then why would a WCO believe you about cougars?
The whole concept that cougars leave during periods when they would be easier to document seems pretty far-fetched. Cougars may travel great distances to mate, find food or establish territories, but that is the same logic that some use to say that they have left “other” areas to arrive here. Doesn’t it seem odd that the same argument is used to say they are here and then used again to say they aren’t here when snow is on? My take on this would be that if I was convinced I saw multiple cougars in an area, or so many other folks also saw so many cougars, then I would be organizing a tracking party of these individuals and interested persons to “prove” those sightings were legitimate. Apparently you know the Sproul. You then must know how easy it is to spot tracks of anything that moves there in fresh snow cover. There are dozens of miles of gas co. roads and forestry roads that could be cruised with spotting scopes and binocs to spot tracks on flats and hillsides and check them out. The gas co plows the main roads and there is good access out across the top. Keep in mind, cougars will kill and eat about 50 deer per year. They will continually return to feed on a kill for 6 – 8 days. Feed sites and tracks to those sites would be very evident. Out west this tactic is used to put dogs on a track with astonishing success. Picture this says; “these the same people who don't agree with MLs in pennsylvania the same one who argues up and down that people don't go off the beaten path.” It seems convenient that undocumented sightings occur on roads and open fields but provable sightings are difficult because of remoteness! I would urge the folks who are convinced that they have seen cougars to actually do research as to cougar behavior and habits. Then set out to find that proof based on the inevitable sign any cougar simply must leave. Let’s not subscribe to the “ghost” theory that they float above the surface, eat nothing, don’t have scrape and scratch areas, don’t leave scat, hair or tracks and only dwell in remote areas, except when teasing people by appearing in open fields and on public or forest roads. And please read these posts. No one here is saying it is impossible for cougars to exist. Wild or domestic makes no difference. Most here are only saying that unconfirmed sightings are not proof. If someone is so convinced, don’t wait on a busy WCO to prove it for you. If so many are actually seen, by so many people, then getting proof is a matter of some basic tracking and investigation. Lacking snow, any good tracking dog should be able to pick up the trail from the sighting point and lead you directly to that cougar. It is legal to use dogs for coyotes (no fur taker license is even required). The same methods could be applied to tracking cats. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Like you,I don't think anyone would doubt the possibility of their existence.Released pets are a definately a possibility but the chances of them surviving and finding a mate are slim at best.I read an article recentlywhere a male was documented to had dispersedaround 800(I believe)miles from where it was originally tagged.So the possibility certainly exists that they could possibly migrate into Pa.Once again though,Pa is a huge area and the chances of them finding a mate is rare at best.
I'm also sure that post people that claim to see them,really believe that's what they saw.I know several reputable people that claim to have seen them and none are on drugs and none have any reason to lie.Along those same lines,i've seen at least 4 different pictures of bobcats posted on different websites.In every case,you were clearly looking at a bobcat,yet the argument that it was a mountain lion went on for weeks. I personally think it would be neatif they found concrete evidence of a mountain lion in Pa.ButI along with most people,want to see concrete evidence. I think Dan brought up some rational points that are definately possible.I can live with that but the conspriracey theories many bring up are totaly irrational and irresponsible. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: DougE Sproul,you're all over the place.You say mountain lions move out in the winter and then turn around and say there's been numerous sightings over the past two months.Where's the tracks?If they're seen on a dirt road,they obviously get off the road at some point where tracks could easily be found. first, i only put out question,COULD COUGARS BE LEAVING SOME AREAS OF PA IN WINTER?as was said, they migrate long ways..this could be reason of no tracks in snow in some areas that cougars were seen before in june/dec..as i said, my research has most of sighting from june /dec.. lycoming co.is being exception right now but it may be do to cougars being close to homes there that they are seen more,i dont know.. maybe as someone said,as pgc wannabess said we dont go into woods to far,so how can we find tracks..BUT most of sighting i have documented were almost all on dirt roads in REMOTE areas of clinton,centre/potter/cameron co.. i did have 3 confirmed sighting in hyner near a farm,in bitumen near homes,just outside lock haven..by confirmed, i mean i TRUST that those people saw cougar..another was in the paper by local woman that writes articlesbut that picture was a BOBCAT not cougar.. 1 to my knowledge, 1 in hyner,pa. was investigated by clinton county wcobut i did not hear finding.. you keep bringing up the tracks in snow theory,i have not seen a cougar track but how many people know what cougar track is anyhow? if there is snow and cougar is reported in that area earlier,then only few reasons,1 is he left, other is he does not rome out of the WAYBACK,boy, i hate that word,areas and we dont get off roads as hunters,ha.. if cougars are around dirt roads in remote areas in june/dec,then why would they not be there in winter..coyotes all are walking roads,so i would say cougar will also.. only reason i could give is they LEFT and went elsewhere for winter,places that may have warmer weather and more winter food..like deer, they get off tops of mountains when weather is bad,could be cougar does same thing,i dont know.. this is only guess,dont come back and say, SPROUL you are all over place.. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
you are twisting my words,you should be a reporter. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
northpa,first, i told you that statement was made by trapper in the williamsport gazzette,not me..he was stating that the pgc told him years ago that coyotes he was seeing were FERAL DOGS..now, they report a cougar in williamsport and pgc says,ITS A DOMESTIC CAT..
thats ALL i reported here and being article was in paper with MANY more,i only thought we should hear what hunters are reporting that go WAYBACK.. so, if those hunters /trappers are giving out FALSE info as you said,then you should write a rebuttal in williamsport gazzette or call editor.. i got 17 PM in last 6 days, 2 out of 17 say i am full of it and i dont go WAYBACK, others say, good job sproul, thanks for reporting what you see and hear, we also believe that cougars exist.. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
That's it. I'm convinced. After lunch I'm headed to Sproul to check things out.
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: T_in_PA3 That's it. I'm convinced. After lunch I'm headed to Sproul to check things out. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter ORIGINAL: T_in_PA3 That's it. I'm convinced. After lunch I'm headed to Sproul to check things out. boy, all the non-believers are here now, ha.. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
bears are not being given chance to grow up,but thats another topic.. We have some of the best bear hunting in North America, including some in world record weight class. I hope you're not one of those PETA people who wants to protect cuddly little Teddy Bear???? Did you know that cougars will eat bear cubs, and so will adult male bears? |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: NorthPA bears are not being given chance to grow up,but thats another topic.. We have some of the best bear hunting in North America, including some in world record weight class. I hope you're not one of those PETA people who wants to protect cuddly little Teddy Bear???? Did you know that cougars will eat bear cubs, and so will adult male bears? |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
No thanks, if you wanna start a new thread that's fine but I am not that curious about bears. I don't hunt them these days, but I think we a lot to be thankful for when it comes to our bear hunting.
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RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
I need to comment on a few things.
Many years ago, about 30, I also remember the PGC stating that there were no coyotes. They stated that all the reports that they investigated were wild dogs. I even remember the farmers in Greene Co., where I hunt, complaining about the PGC not admitting that they were coyotes. They were having problems with sheep kills. There are lots of sheep in Greene Co., by the way. The PGC kept saying there were wild dogs killing the sheep, there were no coyotes. The farmers got together and started offering a reward for anyone killing a coyote. Hunters started shooting them. It was about that time that the PGC quitscoffing atthe reports. But yes, I do remember the PGC trying to say that there were no coyotes. I was just a kid then so maybe all the details aren't accurate but I do remember that my father and I wondered if there really were coyotes. We hunted that county and being young, I wanted to shoot one. They use to have big banners hanging in Waynesburg offering a reward from some sheep farmer's group. As for mountain lions, yes they are here. I don't know how, where they came from, but they are here. had a girl friend that saw one. She kept saying that it was Orange, as big as a deer and had a long tail the curled up in the air when it ran. I'll agree that many bobcats are mistaken for ML's. Even on here there have been several bobcat photos that many said were ML's. They weren't. I was amazed at how many hunters couldn't tell the difference.So not all reports are legit. Its just a matter of time before one is shot. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
be careful,northpa may say a bad word about you..you have GRIT..
as for ORANGE, yes,1 i saw was ORANGE also..no where near color of bobcat.. again, i am not going after the pgc but if you are told a coyote is wild dog or feral dog,now they say a cougar could be a released pet.. also, when the pgc says to you,SIR, YOU DESRIBED A COUGAR TO A T BUT I DONT BELIEVE THEY EXIST,ALSO GROUND IS TO HARD FOR ME TO TAKE PRINTS..would not i felt better if WCO said, sproul,can i meet with you or my deputy and we will look at spot and take prints if found.. NOW, ole sproul would have felt great..i would be on the pgc team, yes, team player,even if we did not find a print but i know we would of.. lately i hear pgc is coming out and talking to you,pressure is on.. if there are cougars out there and we know there are,dont for 1 minute think that pgc in field have not seen one..hell, they are out there everyday, you cant convince ole sproul that those WCO have not seen one.. if we saw one,THEY did too over years.. yes, i also agree,lot of pictures are of bobcats, not cougar.. but the sighting most i talk to said they saw tail 2 ft long twisting as it ran..friends, thats no bobcat.. |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
Bet you'll see a bear or two |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
ORIGINAL: T_in_PA3 Bet you'll see a bear or two |
RE: FEDS PLAN STUDY OF COUGARS
No younguns.
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