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RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

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ORIGINAL: BaileyHill

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ORIGINAL: archer58

Bailey , You are wrong AGAIN.
The PGC decreased doe tas in 2G a HUGE amount in response to hunter input. DIDN"T THEY???

And as jf5 said ...hunter recruitment is down all over the country.

See Pointer's post again. They were declining in the "GOOD OLE DAYS"
when deer were abundant. Explain that.

too many archers!!

And once again we hear it. It's too bad that your inability to get a deer has to be blamed on other hunters. Archers dont yet harvest a proportion of the deer equal to their numbers. To level the playing field, we actually need longer archery seasons or more archery hunters.

I cant help but wonder... wouldn't the PETA gang be clever if they planted members here just to stir the pot and pit one group of hunters against the other. All these recent new members, all these posts intended to start flame wars between hunters .....

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

It doesn't matter how many hunters the agency loses, they all will still have jobs. There's no incentive for them to care.
There can be no doubt because of poor resource management we have lost many small game hunters and recently many deer hunters.

For Doug, Bob T. and that archery friend of Doug's I urge you all to spend some time hunting deer near Renovo and Coudersport; Then tell us how good the deer hunting is.

Yo Doug, you can still top off your freezer, didn't the Commissioners extend the deer season in the SRA areas. Drive on down and quench your thirst to kill.

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

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ORIGINAL: BaileyHill

hey BTBow ? for you ...if as you just said "archers aren't killing a proptionate number of deer" ...could they be part of the problem then??????.... If the GC is using hunters as a management tool like they claim,apprently archers aren't pulling their own weight then...you said it not me!!!.....also the GC might be better served then to open more gun seasons in Oct & Nov to aid in pre rut doe harvest seeing how archers aren't pulling their own weight!!!!!!!!!!

Success rates among Pa's archers are actually very good when compared to other states. Give us archers longer season and the archery harvest will go up. We all know that you arent concerned with the deer harvest being too low so you are obviously just talking out of both sides of your mouth just to get a rise out of archery hunters.Go ahead and have fun. no one takes you any more seriouslythan we take the PETA nutballs.

On the other hand, your antics will probably get this thread locked a wee bit sooner than if you'd not spouted this drivel.

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

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For Doug, Bob T. and that archery friend of Doug's I urge you all to spend some time hunting deer near Renovo and Coudersport; Then tell us how good the deer hunting is.

From the sounds of things, your qualifications as a guide seem to be lacking a bit so I'll continue to find my own spots thank you. Funny though, I seem to have no problem finding plenty of deer in the ANF where guysa lotlike you say things a lot like the things you say.

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

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ORIGINAL: Mailman29680

Really 80% could be lost as 20% harvest 80% of the deer but themoney lost would be too much.
10-15% is probably what could be afforded.

Thank youfor being just about the only one to answer the question squarely. I wish that more people would give their imput on this important question rather than hijack it.
If 15% is an accurate guess, IMHO we will probably be there this coming year or next.

BTW, the US F&W Service just released the 2005 national sales figures. When Pa. lost 5.9% of its hunters, the rest of the country lost only1.4%.

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

I was talking about from when AR/HR began, not from then when (with a smaller population) we had almost 1/3 more hunters in Pa. and a small game population second to none. Those days are gone and deer hunting drives license sales in the present.

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

Mocha, our numbers here in PA aren't dropping any differently that the rest of the country. Since the AR/HR issue is specific to PA and we havent deviated from the nationwide trend, it stands to reason that the deer program isnot having a measurable effect.

We've seen a lot ofreference to hunters not buying licenses due to dissatisfactionwith deer numbers but those references have come from the same small vocal crowd with opinions but no real factual information to back up their claims.

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

Mocha, our numbers here in PA aren't dropping any differently that the rest of the country.

??????

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Hunting License Sales Generate
Record Conservation Funding
January 31, 2007

NEWTOWN, Conn.—A new report shows 25 states performed better than the national rate in sales of hunting licenses, tags and stamps in 2005. Nationally, license sales -- the main funding mechanism for state conservation agencies -- set a new record, topping $723 million.
The 2005 figures, just released by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, show total sales rose 2.8 percent from the previous year, while the number of customers slipped 1.4 percent, from 14.7 million to 14.5 million.
The total number of U.S. hunters, including both licensed and non-licensed, is estimated much higher than the 14.5 million acknowledged in the federal report. The National Sporting Goods Association calculates 20.6 million active hunters. The Outdoor Industry Association's latest estimate surpasses 26 million. And in a new survey commissioned by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) and conducted by independent firm Responsive Management, 19 percent of Americans—more than 50 million people—said they've hunted in the past two years.
Depending on local laws, non-licensed hunters may include:
1. Young hunters who aren't yet required to buy a license.
2. Hunters at wingshooting and other game preserves.
3. Landowners hunting on their own property.
4. Lessees hunting on land where they reside.
5. Active duty military on leave.
6. Citizens who hunt only on free hunting days.
7. Senior citizens no longer required to buy a license.
"Every hunter is an important asset to the firearm and hunting industry, but the number of license buyers is also significant because that's who contributes the most to habitat restoration, wildlife management and other conservation programs. Special excise taxes on guns and ammunition rose to more than $224 million for conservation in 2005, but license sales more than tripled that amount," said Doug Painter, president of NSSF.

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

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ORIGINAL: Mocha Java

Quote:

ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

Mocha, our numbers here in PA aren't dropping any differently that the rest of the country.

??????

Here's part of the results, I'm still looking for another link. This is only the summary, but the raw data, as soon as I find it, shows that PA is right about in the middle for suffering hunter declines.

http://www.responsivemanagement.com/download/reports/NSSF_Hunter_Trends_Exec_Sum.pdf

RE: How many hunters is is all right to lose?

Looking closer at that 1.4% lost figure which was 200,000 hunters lost, I can see that Pa.'s 50,000+ figure that year made up 25% of all lost hunters in America.Wow!