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DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Hot off the bat phone. This doesn't sound like a very Hunter and Angler-friendly nomination to me....
GOVERNOR ELIOT SPITZER AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DAVID PATERSON ANNOUNCE ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS Governor Eliot Spitzer and Lieutenant Governor David Paterson today announced nominations for two key senior administration positions. Alexander B. "Pete" Grannis is being nominated to serve as Commissioner of the Department of Environmental Conservation. Mr. Grannis was first elected to the Assembly in 1974 and represents the Upper East Side of Manhattan and Roosevelt Island. He currently serves as legislator, serving as Chair of the Assembly Insurance Committee and as a member of the Assembly Ways and Means Committee. Mr. Grannis has championed environmental issues throughout his tenure in the legislature. He was a leader in fighting for the passage of SEQRA, the original bottle bill, and the clean-up and revitalization of the state's brownfields. Mr. Grannis has also played a key role in the enactment of a wide range of environmental legislation, including measures related to acid rain, clean air and water, fluorocarbons and recycling. He chaired the Assembly's first Subcommittee on Toxic Wastes, sponsored legislation ensuring a worker's right to know about hazardous materials in the work place and has worked to regulate the transport, storage and disposal of toxic wastes. Mr. Grannis authored the state's rapid transit noise code and has been at the forefront of the fight to have the MTA convert its polluting diesel bus fleet to clean fuels. A nationally recognized leader in the fight to curb the health hazards posed by smoking, Mr. Grannis authored New York's 1989 Clean Indoor Air Act (CIAA) and amendments adopted in 2003 to protect all working men and women from deadly secondhand smoke. His legislative efforts to curb smoking, including the historic CIAA and the Adolescent Tobacco Use Prevention Act have received global recongnition. Mr. Grannis*s work has been hailed by numerous public health organizations including the American Cancer Society and the New York State Association of County Health Officials. Mr. Grannis is a three-time winner of the Legislator of the Year award from the Environmental Planning Lobby and was accorded similar honors by the Audubon Society, the Environmental Action Coalition and Environmental Advocates. He also received the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Public Service Award in recognition of his efforts in promoting the humane treatment of animals. Mr. Grannis lives with his family in New York City. He is a graduate of Rutgers University and the University of Virginia Law School. Prior to entering the Assembly, Mr. Grannis practiced law in New York City and served as Compliance Counsel for the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. Judith Enck will be appointed as Deputy Secretary for the Environment. For the past eight years, Ms. Enck has served as a policy advisor to Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. Prior to joining the Attorney General*s office, she was a Senior Environmental Associate with the New York Public Interest Research Group (NYPIRG). She has also served as the Executive Director of the Environmental Advocates of New York, a non-profit government watchdog organization dedicated to enforcing laws that protect natural resources and safeguards public health. Ms. Enck received her B.A. from the College of St. Rose. A dark cloud is forming, and it looks like it is coming from south of the Tapanzi Bridge. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
a guy from the NYC in charge of state wide DEC[X(]
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Well, I'm sure New Jersey will be happy. No more pressure from NYS DEC on managing their bear numbers through solid hunting seasons. [:@]
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
This pretty much sums up what this guy is about:
VAGUE ATTEMPTS First it was Iowa and Connecticut. Then, we wrote recently, Texas. Now, an Assembly bill has been introduced in New York to make hunting a punishable act of animal cruelty. Do we sense a pattern across this country, similar to what has beguiled Britain? Anti-hunting lawmakers, confirms the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, are introducing "vague or poorly worded" animal-cruelty legislation in an effort to outlaw hunting. [B]The latest New York bill, introduced by Democratic Assembly member Alexander Grannis,[B] seeks to revise the state's definition of animal cruelty to include "killing or injuring . . . wild game and wild birds." "The bill creates a contradiction in the law as the state code allows regulated hunting," says Tony Celebrezze, an alliance director. "But the definition of animal cruelty in the bill makes hunting illegal. If (it) becomes law, anti-hunters will have a field day ensuring that sportsmen are prosecuted on animal cruelty charges." The New York bill mirrors legislation introduced recently in Texas. Similar bills in Iowa and Connecticut were defeated. More info on him: http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=BS022281 Great, appoint an ANTI as Commissioner of the DEC! |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
More info on the nominated DEC commissioner Grannis
http://www.ussportsmen.org/TEMPLATES/searchaction.cfm Holy crap. We had better start making certain the NYSCC is funded and well funded. We could be in deep doodoo if not. NY Federated Clubs, I strongly urge every club support the NYSCC Buck a Member program (BAM). Membership dues wopuld increase by $1.00 per member, with 100% of that $1.00 going to help the NYSCC. They need it bad, and we are about to get into the fight for our very right to hunt, trap and fish. This is deadly serious, and makes all the other debates about AR and crossbows and the like totally pointless. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
that is just plain stupid. why on earth would he do that (I know why,Spitzer has no clue and he's a political buddy). talk about screwing up a department that is in need of some leadership and stability. who do we send emails/letters to? is this a done deal? (I know he probably has to be confirmed) is there a chance that outrage by individuals & groups will make any difference?
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
I emailed Spitzer, I sugest doing the same. Also contact any sportmans clubs you may be in.Our petty little fights as said above mean nothing. We need to get together before we lose it all.
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
theyre a coupla scumbags.
just as bad a s hillary for senator. i am ASHAMED to be a new yorker. amazing that these cretins get elected. Hillary wins president, i move. to canada guam borneo iraq south america anywhere but here. are new yorkers/americans THAT stupid? you bet! |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: moose1915 theyre a coupla scumbags. just as bad a s hillary for senator. i am ASHAMED to be a new yorker. amazing that these cretins get elected. Hillary wins president, i move. to canada guam borneo iraq south america anywhere but here. are new yorkers/americans THAT stupid? you bet! Fletch NY, great job on posting the info on this guy. He is also the same clown that has made it is personal mission to ban trapping in NYS. From USSA http://www.ussportsmen.org/TEMPLATES/searchaction.cfm We have our Federation Meeting tonight. The entire Federation already knows the news. SHould make for a very lively meeting. I am numb right now. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
THis one is going to get real ugly. I have received some phone calls since this announcement and it looks as though when confirmed, some political house cleaning may occur.
Oh boy, this ain't good for us hunters, trappers and anglers. We must get prepared to go on a major OFFENSIVE, as we cannot win playing defense alone. Let's use this as the biggest reason to unite and work to protect our rights as one, otherwise we will lose the fun of debating inconsequential stuff in the near future (not to mention our passions for hunting, trapping and fishing). |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ttt...
I'll inform all of what the goings on were at the Federation meeting. Heading there now. This should be fun. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
don't forget, spitzer was the clown that wanted a serial number stamped ON EVERY BULLET MANUFACTURED, you know, so the murderers who buy bullets legally in a gunstore could easily be apprehended.
jackass |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
NY state is a good place to be from. If ny sportsman don't do something we will not owne guns or be able to hunt sooner than you think. With the cost of living in NY and the stupid anti hunting and gun laws that we have and will have a person should really consider moving to a more sportsman friendly state.
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Let's also remember Spitzer made ademand to gain the entirity of the DECALS database repository to run all licensed hunters through NICS for a fishing expedition to attempt to find "criminals" and also document potential fireamrs owners.
Sheehan shut the door on that one, protecting our right to privacy. Grannis and Silver made the big push to make it happen in the NYS Assembly. Although it will take a little time to dig this out of my email archives, concerning the dirty little details (over 8000 messages since 2004/ 2005), here is a refresher. When I extract all the behind the scenes info I have somewhere on my HDD, I will post, but, hey, enjoy, read up! http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/ohms/foil/04218athomas.html What are the odds of this new Commish, considering his track record, putting up such a fight to protect our rights to privacy? How does your privacy look today? |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
First Billary now Spitzer. What ARE you NY folks thinking? Geez, glad I'm long gone from there.
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
What it comes down too, is all of use standing up and fighting the good fight. I live on Long Island and we have alot of hunters bird hunting out here along with deer etc.. and they will have to stand up aswell. Getting people to do this maybe tuff, but it's well worth everyone of us having our days afield where are love is and are families grow stronger.
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
The biggest problem in New York is the lack of a separate fish and wildlife dept. Everything is lumped into one DEC dept,that has to deal with all kinds of BS from recycling paint cans and lightbulbs,(lead and mercury pollution) to quotas brought in on commercial fishing boats in NYC. Until the politicians in this great state remove their heads from where the sun don't shine,we as sportsmen will continue to be a minority that has only a small voice.
Charlie |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Chasam60 The biggest problem in New York is the lack of a separate fish and wildlife dept. Everything is lumped into one DEC dept,that has to deal with all kinds of BS from recycling paint cans and lightbulbs,(lead and mercury pollution) to quotas brought in on commercial fishing boats in NYC. Until the politicians in this great state remove their heads from where the sun don't shine,we as sportsmen will continue to be a minority that has only a small voice. Charlie |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: bugsNbows First Billary now Spitzer. What ARE you NY folks thinking? Geez, glad I'm long gone from there. NY'ers.... I feel sorry for you. [&o]:([X(] Butch A. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
As is usually the case, there is more to the story.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sagittarius62 As is usually the case, there is more to the story. http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html From that page: So the bill doesn't call for prosecuting people who kill wildlife, but rather people who kill wildlife "with no justifiable purpose" with the intention of inflicting extreme pain or killing in an extremely depraved or sadistic manner. To the highly vocal vegans, AR advocates, Peta people,etc, there is NO "justifiable purpose" and ALL killing of anaimals is depraved or sadistic! Support of that bill indicates either a complete lack of understanding of AR's goal or support of those goals. Either way, not a person to have in charge of the only agency with authority over NYS outdoorsmen and hunters. Steve |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sagittarius62 As is usually the case, there is more to the story. http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html You tell me, the wording of the proposed bill is as follows, from your own link: A person is guilty of aggravated cruelty to animals when, with no justifiable purpose, he or she intentionally kills or intentionally causes serious physical injury to a companion animal, OR WILD GAME AND WILD BIRDS AS DEFINED IN SECTION 11-0103 OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, with aggravated cruelty. For purposes of this section, "aggravated cruelty" shall mean conduct which: (i) is intended to cause extreme physical pain; or (ii) is done or carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner So, let's put our thinking caps on for a second, shall we? Hmmm... Intended to cause extreme physical pain. Could the intention of killing an animal be viewed as extreme physical pain? You bet.Carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner... Hmmm, like an accidental gut shot, or use of archery equipment? These elements I have just stated would be put forward by a lunatic ARW. Ain't no doubt or argument over that truth. We've been fighting this exact same thing for many years across the fruited plain. So, I need you to clarify what the heck you are trying to say. Or are you a card carrying member of PETA and HSUS? I suspect the latter.. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
So, let's put our thinking caps on for a second, shall we? Hmmm... Intended to cause extreme physical pain. Could the intention of killing an animal be viewed as extreme physical pain? You bet. Carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner... Hmmm, like an accidental gut shot, or use of archery equipment? |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
this guys a clown who's never been outside of his manhattan skyscraper.. he does NOT speak for me, nor does he speak for ANY hunters or fishers.
He was appointed by a man that will go down in history as ther worst govenor of NY. the man wants "sport hunting" and trapping to end. period. you city clowns keep voting people like this in.... christ allmighty, New York CITY voted in HILLARY CLINTON FOR SENATE..... WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!? New york city shgould be a separate entity from the rest of new york state. i'm sick of supporting them and sick of them having a say in what goes on out here in the real world. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! ok, rant over. discuss |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
If I were a NY hunter right now, I'd move. Honest, guys, you might want to consider it. [&:]
I also heard that last year in 2006, NY State (for the first time in state history) actually dropped in population census(i.e. more people moved away from NY State than came in or were born). ---Yo, Hildabeast andcheesy-a$$ed Schumer... Care to explain that one or will you continue to hide this fact from the press?!?! [:@] Butch A. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
. (oops.... double thread)
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RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sylvan So, let's put our thinking caps on for a second, shall we? Hmmm... Intended to cause extreme physical pain. Could the intention of killing an animal be viewed as extreme physical pain? You bet. Carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner... Hmmm, like an accidental gut shot, or use of archery equipment? It may seem far-fetched, Sylvan, but it isn't. And with the Governor's ability to appoint judges in NYS Appellate Court and I think the NYS SUpreme Court (could be wrong on the SC), is it really that far-fetched? |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
As is usually the case, there is more to the story. http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html Link takes you to an AR advocate claiming to be a hunter. So, I need you to clarify what the heck you are trying to say. Or are you a card carrying member of PETA and HSUS? I suspect the latter. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sagittarius62 As is usually the case, there is more to the story. http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html Link takes you to an AR advocate claiming to be a hunter. So, I need you to clarify what the heck you are trying to say. Or are you a card carrying member of PETA and HSUS? I suspect the latter. That's right, the day it was crafted and introduced for debate. We've had more than just a bunch of hunters sittin' around, scratching ourselves, trying to think of how this law would affect us. NO, we actually have some attorneys at our disposal, who volunteer their time to reveiw this stuff and explain what precedences could be set. When it comes to the law and legislative proposals, I'll defer translation and opinion to an attorney rather than an outdoors writer, like myself. When the lawyers tell us what can be, I'll go with that. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Ok, well, although Bill A1850 has been deleted (that wonderful animal cruelty bill) it looks as though it was resubmitted under a new number, A03006.
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A03006 This one was recently introduced, going in the avenue of Agriculture... We currently have attorneys examining this one. It does expressly say the laws do not apply to licensed hunting and trapping activities, but, this is being reviewed nonetheless. MOre to come. Also, we are currently looking into a couple more proposals hot off the presses, co-sponsored by Grannis, which appears will make access to hunting and fishingon Forest Lands (private) gonzo under real property law 480. I am looking into this one as I type. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
By removing wild game animals and wild birds from the bill. Look, I don't support Grannis and I might add that if you knew me you would find I am a pretty strong libertarian, politically and philisophically at odds with Spitzer and likely anyone he would appoint. I also suspect you are correct in your assesment of him. But I am also a pretty strong advocate of honesty and this thread started out by saying that the bill Grannis advocated would make hunting illegal. That was clearly a gross distortion. Sagittarius62 makes a good point about getting the facts straight. If we're going to use distortions and half truths when debating then imo we're no more principled than the animal rights wacos. I don't think that's a wise course. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sylvan By removing wild game animals and wild birds from the bill. Look, I don't support Grannis and I might add that if you knew me you would find I am a pretty strong libertarian, politically and philisophically at odds with Spitzer and likely anyone he would appoint. I also suspect you are correct in your assesment of him. But I am also a pretty strong advocate of honesty and this thread started out by saying that the bill Grannis advocated would make hunting illegal. That was clearly a gross distortion. Sagittarius62 makes a good point about getting the facts straight. If we're going to use distortions and half truths when debating then imo we're no more principled than the animal rights wacos. I don't think that's a wise course. Yes, this is exactly what it would have done, make hunting illegal, and trapping, too, perhaps even moreso. Imagine this law in effect, and someone going nuts over a coyote caught in a leg hold trap, only to know the trapper will dispatch the coyote with a club to the noggin? Could that be considered "sadistic?"When examining the letter of the law, we must realize precedence and what the language of the law can extend to cover. This is why we get lawyers involved, rather than simple speculation. NYSCC has lawyers that examine the full wording of draft bills. So too does SCOPE and the NYS NRAILA. When these lawyers indicate the laws could potentially make the act of hunting illegal, I side with that, and is the prime reason the bill was pulled (A1850) and replaced by the new one on 1/22/07 (A03006), with language specifically trying to preclude hunting and trapping from the laws. No one with a sane mind would ever condone or support animal cruelty, in any form, let alone sadistic and malicious intent. However, we must not allow emotional heartstrings to blind us from the realities that if we let a bad law slip through, we could indeed jeopardize ourselves in the process, and this, considering the felony part, also extends to potentially losing 2nd Amendment Rights as well. We must be cautious, and, again, when the lawyers interpret the bill to show potential extension to hunting and trapping, that's enough to shut her down and say either go away or go back to the drawing board. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Yes, this is exactly what it would have done, make hunting illegal, and trapping, too, perhaps even moreso. The way I see this thread, you started it with what I thought was a pretty rational look at Grannis. Then somebody posted that he sponsored a bill that would ban hunting (as if that were it's intent). Then everyone went off on rants about the end of hunting. Even I was ready to post denouncing the jerk when Sagitarius posted the actual language of the bill. Like he said there was indeed "more to the story". Now as far as I'm concerned, though we all may agree that Grannis is a horrible choice, the net effect here imowas a loss of credibility to our arguments opposing him. Ifeven oneattack plays loose with the truth then what of the rest? I think you should keep in mind that the perception of credibility is very important and once lost is very difficult to get back. Just some friendly advice from someone on your side. Good luck! |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sylvan Yes, this is exactly what it would have done, make hunting illegal, and trapping, too, perhaps even moreso. The way I see this thread, you started it with what I thought was a pretty rational look at Grannis. Then somebody posted that he sponsored a bill that would ban hunting (as if that were it's intent). Then everyone went off on rants about the end of hunting. Even I was ready to post denouncing the jerk when Sagitarius posted the actual language of the bill. Like he said there was indeed "more to the story". Now as far as I'm concerned, though we all may agree that Grannis is a horrible choice, the net effect here imowas a loss of credibility to our arguments opposing him. Ifeven oneattack plays loose with the truth then what of the rest? I think you should keep in mind that the perception of credibility is very important and once lost is very difficult to get back. Just some friendly advice from someone on your side. Good luck! I understand where you are coming from, but, as of late, nearly 100% of my colleagues are sharing the same opinions and positions concerning Grannis. We have also shared the same concerns over these pieces of legislation. We have seen many laws enacted which, through "muddy language", result in bad law and have seen these laws be upheld in court, regardless of intent of the law. Do some research, and you will find this to be TRUE. Still not convinced? Let's take a look at what has happened in New Jersey, where Gov Corzine, just yesterday, I believe, signed the the "Community Gun Act" into law. I'll post the text later on today, as this is contained on my other computer. We have very similar bills pending in the NYS Legislature as I type. The ultimate goal of these pieces of legislation is simply to remove your right to keep and bear arms. If you are a trapper, and someone charges you with an animal cruelty act for using a leg hold trap on a coyote, causing it "undue suffering" (who defines this and how, exactly? That's the part that is a bone of contention.... Who defines that and how!!!), you couold be charged with a FELONY. You know what that means? In NYS, if you are CHARGED with a felony, you must surrender all your firearms! If you are convicted of said felony, you never get them back. Are you saying you are comfortable with people of Grannis' background being the one to DEFINE the cruelty for you? I, for one, am not. SInce this is NOT DEFINED, the law better DEFINE IT EXACTLY, otherwise, it is open to interpretation, and that is never a good thing when it comes to law. I am sure you agree. Incidentally, I have found out some more concerning the confirmation process. It is similar to Federal Government, in that the State Senate confirms nominations. I have been blanketing the State Senate with the following brief letter. I recommend you do the same, in particular to your specific State Senator. You may copy and paste... I write this to you over my grave concerns regarding the nomination of Alexander "Pete" Grannis to become Commissioner of the NYS DEC. Considering his well-known record of being against trapping, hunting and being anti 2nd Amendment rights, this nominee would do severe, if not devastating damage to the vital, and extremely lucrative industries hunting, trapping and fishing represents to NYS, industries which through tax revenues and conservation fund contributions, buttress NYS ability to protect the natural resources the Department is charged to protect. Through his own political agenda, this ability would be crippled. The people of NYS deserve much better. This department should be run by qualified Biologists and Habitat Managers, not career politicians, as our natural resources deserve to be protected devoid of political agendas. I urge you to please deny your support to this nomination, and speak with your colleagues to do the same. We need a true conservationist running this department, not someone with a political agenda. Sincerely Here is the link to the State Senator's listing. To find your specific Senator(s), use the zip code search utility. When you click on their name, their profile portal site will come up. You may click on Contact in the upper right corner, and either get an address to mail a letter to, or the email link to send this via email. http://www.senate.state.ny.us/senatehomepage.nsf/senators?OpenForm We must act fast. We do have a VERY SLIM CHANCE to block this, if we speak with one voice, in force. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Well, again, in the legal circles, Sylvan, a badly worded law, intentional or not, sets a PRECEDENCE which could be used to do just that. Still not convinced? Are you saying you are comfortable with people of Grannis' background being the one to DEFINE the cruelty for you? My very simple and narrow point was made in my first post and that was "...he could well be the worst possible choice for hunters but I don't think it can be concluded simply on the basis of his advocating this bill." You're wasting your time trying to "convince" me that Grannis or anybody else Spitzer appoints is likely to be bad news for hunters and gun owners. I find it kind of amusing that you keep trying to convince me of things that I am likely a stronger advocate of than you are. Do some research on libertarianism and maybe that will "convince" you. Take care. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sylvan Well, again, in the legal circles, Sylvan, a badly worded law, intentional or not, sets a PRECEDENCE which could be used to do just that. Still not convinced? Are you saying you are comfortable with people of Grannis' background being the one to DEFINE the cruelty for you? My very simple and narrow point was made in my first post and that was "...he could well be the worst possible choice for hunters but I don't think it can be concluded simply on the basis of his advocating this bill." You're wasting your time trying to "convince" me that Grannis or anybody else Spitzer appoints is likely to be bad news for hunters and gun owners. I find it kind of amusing that you keep trying to convince me of things that I am likely a stronger advocate of than you are. Do some research on libertarianism and maybe that will "convince" you. Take care. Again, I may be preaching to the choir, but when Sag posted what he did, it illustrated TO ME that he fell into their trap. That trap, is emotionalism. Sure, it sounds real good: A person is guilty of aggravated cruelty to animals when, with no justifiable purpose, he or she intentionally kills or intentionally causes serious physical injury to a companion animal, OR WILD GAME AND WILD BIRDS AS DEFINED IN SECTION 11-0103 OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, with aggravated cruelty. For purposes of this section, "aggravated cruelty" shall mean conduct which: (i) is intended to cause extreme physical pain; or (ii) is done or carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner Point 1: No justifiable purpose. Well, we don't need to harvest animals for food, so that one is not a justification. In some people's eyes (that is critical, because political offices and judges change PEOPLE), hunting and trapping to control animal populations and reduce potential for spread of disease, like rabies, CWD, etc, is not justifiable, because (and we've all heard this before) "nature will take its course, and that is the natural way". So toss that one, too. For sport? I don't need to get into that one, either, do I? Now, the Environmental Conservation Law cited (the only law referenced) is nothing but THE DEFINITIONS... Here, read up http://law.onecle.com/new-york/environmental-conservation/ENV011-0103_11-0103.html Nothing in there about hunting at all or trapping at all. Simply definitions, covering the lot. I find it interesting to note that this does NOT cover Domestic Wild Game animals or birds... Next Points.... The "definitions" , with aggravated cruelty. For purposes of this section, "aggravated cruelty" shall mean conduct which: (i) is intended to cause extreme physical pain; or (ii) is done or carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner So, by this statement, the interpretation of the provision is wide open. What exactly is an "especially depraved or sadistic manner?" That one depends on who is defining it, does it not? Some judge could believe, in consideration of the justifiable actions, that trapping a coyote or shooting a deer, turkey, rabbit, squirrel, woodchuck, or game bird, as sadistic, as we do derive some enjoyment out of this act, do we not? Could that also not be considered to be "especially depraved?" The answer is clear, I believe. Then, based on the track record of this legislator, and also some insight I have from other members of the NYS Assembly who know this guy, his intent, which I plainlyspelled out, with this bill, was very clear. He attempted to shut down hunting and trapping through expanded animal cruelty definitions (vague ones at best), and, through felony classification, use animal cruelty charges as the means to grab guns. I understand everyone's point here, and perhaps it is because I have a lot of inside information that the general hunting and trapping public does not have, some confusion may exist. I apologize for that. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Also, make no mistake, Spitzer is all about completely disarming NY's populace.
He has already clearly stated he would sign any and every Gun Control measure to hit his desk. We have currently a bill in the Assembly (no companion bill in Senate, as of yet) which would basically do this, which just got enacted in New Jersey: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/S2500/2009_I1.HTM NJ Gov. Corzine signed a "community gun" ban last Friday which places all NJ gun owners and particularly NJ Licensed Firearm Dealers at serious risk when acquiring a firearm. The new ban reads as follows in the key part: (2) Any person who possesses, receives or transfers a community gun is guilty of a crime of the second degree and shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment by the court. The term of imprisonment shall include the imposition of a minimum term. The minimum term shall be fixed at one-half of the sentence imposed by the court or three years, whichever is greater and during which the defendant shall be ineligible for parole. As used in this paragraph, “community gun” means a firearm that is transferred among, between or within any association of two or more persons who, while possessing that firearm, engage in criminal activity or use it unlawfully against the person or property of another. A firearm becomes a “community gun” when it has been "transferred among, between or within any association of two or more persons who, while possessing that firearm, engage in criminal activity or use it unlawfully against the person or property of another." Once the firearm becomes a "community gun" it becomes a so-called HOT POTATO. Any person "who possesses, receives or transfers a community gun is guilty of a crime of the second degree and shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment by the court." The ban does NOT limit prosecution to the original "two or more persons" who engaged in criminal activity or used it unlawfully. The gun's status is somewhat similar to that of a stolen firearm, except the ban does not say a person has to know it is a "community gun" in order to be in violation. How is a person ever to know if a gun was a "community gun?" Any used gun might be a "community gun." We have to pray that the NJ Courts at least interpret the new gun ban to require "knowledge" by the defendant and that they do not interpret this as a strict liability offense. Unfortunately NJ has an infamous reputation for aggressively enforcing gun laws in the broadest possible way against honest gun owners. The "community gun" ban is a second degree crime (up to 10 years in jail) with a minimum mandatory sentence of at least three years with no chance of parole. |
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
As promised, here is a link to the full text of the NYS Assembly bill (currently referred to codes) which is very similar to the New Jersey Law just signed.
This one is nicely and emotionally pleasing... Its called: Thechildren`s weapon accident prevention act http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A00076&sh=t You'll notice a particular name in the list of folks who Introduced this bill... Think I'm a little nuts now? This is about Spitzer's wish to grab guns, and this guy Grannis is a facilitator. Nice and emotional. Who isn't for protecting children? It is the way of the ANTI, Sylvan. Mask their true intentions behind emotionally pleasing titles. But, I learned to never judge a book by its cover, or in this case, its title. |
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