Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

so obviously there are some major disagreements on how to manage NY's deer herd. Some say AR's some say its my right to shoot what I have tags for, and otehrs could care less either way.
However i have been thinking about it, how many people do you know that shoot the first legal buck they get, just so they have one, but keeep hunting for the "big" one.....i think a major problem in NY's deer herd has to do with the enforcement of laws..............way too much poaching in my area!!...shooting at night, filling others buck tags..and plainly just killing 8-10 bucks a year without reporting a single one..i'm sure we all know people who do that. ....................BUT!!!! imagine if you had to check in your deer.....and we had 3 times teh conservation officers to enforce the laws, do you think people would still shoot the first thing that came through, string it in tehg arage and keep hunting for teh big one?.....i dont think so.....that is how ohio works.........very tough game laws..........guys hang onto their buck tags for something big because they know......you only get this one buck.....and if you break the law........your screwed!!!!...............so what do you guys think
1) leave it as it is.....
2) AR's are the only savior
3)stronger law enforcement and check in stations would work wonders...

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

The way Ohio looks at enhancing their deer herd is a nice one and it works. I still think we should start for a few yearsusing antler restrictions because this is a rapid way to increase buck numbers in just afew years.......then limit hunters to one buck tag, you pick your weapon and what buck will make you a happy NY hunter.. Like in Ohio, enforce your existing buck laws and have harsh penalties.

I know a advid deer hunter in Ohio that keeps bugging me to go out and hunt with him. He hunts coonhounds also like my father and I, this is how we know him. He believes many of the 2.5 year old bucks are making it throught and becoming 3.5 year olds. This makes a big difference in body size and horn growth in most cases. I'm all for this.

I'm also for limiting our gun season to only a week for example. Our bucks get slaughtered especially the stupid 1.5 year olds.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I know alot of hunters that do this. I makes me so freaken mad. They shoot the first little buck that they see and than say "now i am hunting for a big one" even though they only have one buck tag during regular season. They usually end up shooting another little one.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I am definitely not in favor of leaving it as it is! There were some very good points made on the Antler Restriction post pertaining to the need for a more reliable way to have accurate harvest records.Couple that with more ECO's inthe field,mandatory check stations possibly and at the same time introduce a one buck limit and significantly shorten the rifle season.This seems to be why other states such as Ohio and Iowa and Illinois have so much to offer.Why can't we duplicate their model so to speak?
Their agricultural situation certainly contributes to their success.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I honestly do not believe much of the data provided by the DEC, i know of myself and hand full of other that actually call in their kills. nobody around here does, and also nobody around ehre shoots 1 buck with teh gun..they shoot one throw in the garage, skin it and throw an archery tag on it...thats teh way it goes. ..I ask them why they shot the small 4 pointer.........you knwo why?.." cause i havn't shot anything all week..i was getting itchy".....not many people where i come from take pride in killing small bucks they jsut like to shoot something.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

1) leave it as it is.....
I say there is always room to improve and experiment.

2) AR's are the only savior
I don't see that we need a savior. As far as I'm concerned things are going pretty well in NY. Of course, like I said, there's always ways to improve and I would encourage experimenting with ideas. I would however strongly oppose a state wide AR mandate.

3)stronger law enforcement and check in stations would work wonders...
If by stronger law enforcement you mean increase the number of CO's then I am totally against it. The dollars spent for more CO's imo would be much better spent on other much more important issues in NY. It seems to me we have plenty of deer here and it is obvious that the state can very effectively increase the population any time they want just by restricting the doe permits a bit. In fact for quite a few years the problem has been too many deer not too few so again imo I can't see spending money to make sure Joe Blow doesn't use his wifes tags to kill a few more deer than he's entitled to when for example it could be used to help make sure Joe and his buddies aren't driving drunk and maybe save some human lives. When compared to many other issues poaching just isn't a big enough problem. CHeck stations? Again, that means people to man them and money to pay the people. Besides what a pain in the butt!

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

sylvan.i couldn't disagree with your statement more...........sure limit doe tags and the pop. will increase.sure the pop. of does as all of the 1.5 yo will be killed...

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I'm not sure what you disagree with. You agreed that the population would increase and that's all I said. As far as all the 1 1/2 yo's being killed,what is your point?

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

Can you prove this will happen? Based on what?

I grew up in Ohio, my brothers, nephews, sisters, aunts, uncles...etc still live there. They own land from an acre to over 200 acres. Ohio has never had antler restrictions. When I killed my first deer in 1976 the total take statewide was around 30,000 deer. Now its almost 10 times that.

With themultiple bucktags and long gun season in NY, you will see a minimal increase in bigger bucks, even with AR. I have lived here for 12 years, I know how the majority of the people feel about killing a deer around here, and most want to shoot bucks, includingsome of my close friends and coworkers. I dont care what you use for AR's, if you allow people to gun hunt for over 3 weeks, eventually you will get snow, and the deer will get slaughtered, regardless of size. With AR's, They will just kill a whole bunch of little 6 and 8 pointers instead some spikes and forks. What did you gain? You can see the stats in NY(southern tier), years with ample snow, deer kill goes up, no snow, down. Its the same in Ohio. All you hear around here, "Man, we need some snow so we can kill a deer", the DEC will tell you the same thing.

I don't think ARs are the answer because its one more layer of red tape and sublegal deer will be left in the woods to rot because someone thought they saw "3" points.

Ohio got to where they are at by issuing "deer tags" . In some counties you could kill either sex, but only one deer. With a 1 week season (some counties were as low as 3 days) many hunters killed the first deer they could, very often a doe. Some people waited for a buck(spike, 6 pt, 180 class B&C), but no matter what, you could only kill one buck during the season, bow, gun, or muzzleloader.

With a generous bow season in Ohio, the gun season isn't all that important, in fact I know guys who don't even hunt the gun season!

If you tried to cut the southern tier season in NY, people would flip out, including many sporting goods stores and other businesses that depend on hunters. The only wayto help, statewide, is for the DEC to allow only 1 buck per season, andantlerless tags as needed. I think younger or inexperienced hunters should be allowed to kill any size buck they have the chance to(it they want to kill a buck), most will learn to become more patient over time. Just don't give the the chance to kill 2 or 3 small bucks during the season.

JMO

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I disagree to the point that the pop. is fine, maybe where you are but not in many areas of NY.. think of other hunters and not jsut yourself. I agree the doe population wil increase, but it would throw off the gen. pop of the herd in the long run. do you ccar about the longevity and health of the deer herd in NY?..in my area, i'm not sure of others, the buck to doe ratios is way out of whack!! and the woods are over browsed

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

You are really confusing me regarding how you disagreed with me. All I said was is that the state can increase the numbers by restricting the doe permits. You agreed. Wouldn't that increase the numbers in your area too? If you have too many deer in your region then of course it woudn't be wise to restrict doe permits you would want to increase them. But again what's your point. My point was with regard to the cost of enforcement andgiven a population that is far from anydanger of being wiped out I don't see poaching as a problem at least not realative to other issues in NY. Buck to doe ratios and longevity and all that is an issue I didn't adress so again I don't know what you've disagreed with.

If you want me to address managing buck to doe ratios etcrelative to enforcement costs though I certainly will. Again, IMO, that is even less important than managing overall population when it comes to comparing it's importance to other issues so Icertainly can't justify an increase in cost for it.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

its not teh fact of increasing the numbers its increasing teh quality and reducing the herd to meet the holding amount that thw environment can provide. I see poaching as a huge problem, how can you not?...listen dont preach to me that money can be better spent elsewhere..money is wasted all the time in NY. and trust me its not on DEC officers... are you one of the hunters that goes out once in a while, shoots what they see and call it a year. or do you put in hrs and hrs of scouting and tracking and stand placement trying to kil a mature whitetail?..and dont say you shoot whatever for food, for the money you spend on hunting clothes and shells and guns and the price of a liscnece you could buy a months worth of steaks.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

How does poaching hinder efforts to reduce the size of the herd?

btw, as you don't have a clue who I am or how I hunt, its probably kind of silly tospeculate about what kind of deer I pursue/take or how much time I spend at it.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

are you trying to get in a fight?...dont ask stupid questions, because its illegal, and dangerous to the well being of others, not to mention un-ethical, and is not the proper way to manage the herd size. that and poaching also happens actually more so in places where the herd does not to be trimmed.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

Doesn't matter what kind of hunter he is, or what kind of hunter you are. You hunt the way you hunt, he hunts the way he hunts, and so long as both ways are legal, that is that.

I love these conversations about do you "shoot the first deer you see?". The red flag always waves when I read or hear that question. The naswer, for me personally, is no, I do not shoot the first deer I see, I shoot the first deer that gives me a quality shot. If its a 10 point or a spike, or a doe, its meat in the freezer and quality shots are a lot harder to come by than seeing deer. Once I have filled by buck tag, I'm done chasing bucks. Even if that monster came walking out, begging for a kill shot, I wouldn't take it, and have been in that scenario more times than I care to remember. Shoot a decent 6 point on day one, only to have monster 12 walk 40 yards by me on day two. That's hunting. If I shoot that second buck, that's called poaching, which I am dead set against. Doesn't mean I am done hunting, just hunting skinheads until the tags are gone. Once my DMPs are gone (and I have never, ever, filled all my tags) I am done, until extended when those tags are valid once again.

But we have lawbreakers out there. We also have willing accomplices (those who know, but don't report), and quite frankly, when we examine success ratios (actual number of hunters who harvest a buck) of reported harvests, we can readily see that the only thing increased AR would do is drive hunters from the wood. And that is really how AR improves the bucks. Get rid of hunters, and more deer live because not as many bullets are flying. And that is no good, either, because without strong hunter numbers, the Conservation Fund goes in the tank, and we can no longer spend the money to manage the herd we want to manage in the first palce.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

You didn't answer the question... how does poaching hinder efforts to reduce herd size? You said it does so if the question is stupid then so was your statement!

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

doctari.the reason i asked his methods to try and understand his point of view, you dont need to play moderator here boss...........you are a rarity where i come from, most guys will shoot the first thing with 3" of horn then keep going out looking for the big boy, 4 years ago my neighbor who will remain name-less tried to report a guy who dropped 3 buck running together....his and his families life was threatned b/c of that... you know what it took the DEC 4 Hrs to show up... to the scene, think the hunter stuck around?..nope..

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

please quote me where i directly said that poaching hinderd herd reduction?..i didn't you just threw things together, you didn't answer questions i asked earlier either...please do

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

"its not teh fact of increasing the numbers its increasing teh quality and reducing the herd to meet the holding amount that thw environment can provide. I see poaching as a huge problem, how can you not?..."

Sure appears that way to me but if your not then fine. That means you agree with me in that poaching isn't a problem as far as managing for numbers. You agreed that we can increase the population when we want to by reducing doe permits and you now apparently agree that poaching won't be a problem in reducing the herd when we want to so again where do you disagree? You don't make sense!

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

FUBAR. I know that is a huge challenge, and one reason why my buddy refers to the poaching hotline, not as 800-TIPP-DEC, but 800-DEC-JOKE

But I am a rarity. When I call the DEC for LE help, they show up within 30 minutes, if not sooner. Then again, I am on a first name basis with many of the ECOs in Region 9, and they all know me and the quality of my word. Lots of hard work in earning that, and it is something I do not want to ever compromise. As if it were, it would make my efforts in trying to protect our hunting and fishing rights and heritage far more difficult than it already is.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

"I don't see poaching as a problem at least not realative to other issues in NY" I wrote the paoching part in reference to you statement. I disagree that poaching is good for managing numbers..... also disagree on long term herd increasment with cutting doe permits, eventually will kill off the herd with no browse for them to eat. ... to me it seems like you are anything but a conservationist... and actually could care less about teh well being of the herd. i suggest you put me on block becuase nothing useful is coming from our talks, and never will..especially if you promote paoching.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

Doctari... you are lucky, its strange, in my 13 years of hunting in Ny..i have never even seen a DEC officer, and from what I hear that isa good thing. a couple of my friends have been pulled over randomly by them and grilled pretty hard. both of them recieved tickets. once was because his back tag was obstructed the other had cut part of a different date off of his tag by accident.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

For God's sake man, don't be ridiculous! Well I guess well have to agree on one thing though and that is that this disussion isn't going anywhere. I say that in my opinion that poaching isn't a big enough problem in NY to justify increasing spending on the enforcement of game laws and you say I'm promoting poaching? Wow, this is how you carry on a rational discussion? BYE!

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

"don't see poaching as a problem "....sorry but to me...if you dont see it as a "problem"..that that is promoting it, especially if you dontcare to stop it.... i agree, we disagree....bye.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

Well I'm not going to let you get away with a half quote. I didn't say poaching wasn't a problem and anybody who can read knows I didn't. The operative word here my friend was "relative". You can pretend I didn't use it (for what purpose I can't imagine) but if you want to understand my "point of view" as you said you do then you haven't accomplished your goal because you couldn't be more wrong in what you think my view is. Actually, I don't think you want to understand what I've said at all. I think you just want to argue. I'm not interested.

here was the full quote btw...
"My point was with regard to the cost of enforcement andgiven a population that is far from anydanger of being wiped out I don't see poaching as a problem at least not realative to other issues in NY."

and that to you means I promote poaching? Allrighty then!

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

uhhh..if you look above i quoted the whole thing.....please put me on block, i thought you said block.and yes, as far as i'm concerned you might as well promote poaching. oh wait there are more important things than poachin, like other law enforcement?..oh wait there are more important things than that, like a war where thousands of americans have died?...see we can play this game all day... its all "relative". oh and i understand what you've said...i jsut think its all garbage and fits your personal wants and does nothing to better the deer herd in NY..

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

Why do you go to the extremes? Look, we have a finite amount of finacial resourses in this state. I have an opinion just as you do regarding how those resources should be used. I simply believe that the DEC is adequately funded. That doesn't mean there are no problems or that they couldn't put more funds to good use but nearly every agency could make the claim that if you give us more money we will make things better. DUH! Nothing new there and nothing new about what you've said either. Of course if you have more leo's we could better enforce the game laws. DUH! It's all realtive whether or not you want to admit it. You have to make decisions as to where to spend a limited resource and rational people will disagree. My position isn't new either. Lot's of people are of the same mind. It's not a difficult position to understand if you try. It's ridiculous and intellectually vapid to say someone is promoting your problems just because they would rather focus resources on problems that aren't as important to you.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

You might want to look at how the DEC in this state is funded. It's Not under funded at least initially, it could very well support itself with sales and the Pitman-Robertson fed money, but the money generated by these sources are diverted to the general fund and is used for purposes other than the DEC. OUR MONEY...that we pay to hunt and fish. It is basically stolen from us by Albany. DEC is left with what Sheldon Silver and Frank Bruno feel they should have. Its robbery.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

well..thanx for teh compliment (intellectually vapid)... i disagree....you think we have enough Leo's?...we have 2 to cover 3 counties here. that enough..i pay taxes and see tehm work everywhere but here. we disagree thats it.. no more discussion...let others contribute what they think to the thread now.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I have to correct you on that. The Conservation Fund moneys are NOT redirected to the General Fund. NYS CFAB is the watchdog over the CF money, and the accounting for the CF money is very, very specific and well-documented. However, perhaps what you meant to say is that the CF money, which is used solely for the NYSDEC, is not as well spent as it should be, especially when we understand that 51% of the CF money goes to pay for things like employee health benefits (full ride stuff, not HMO and co-pay), reitrement benefits, etc, etc. That's right, 51%. The other 49% goes to fund the actual activities.

NY is different in how this department gets funded. It is typically structured as 50% from the CF and 50% from the NYS General Budget, although that ratio fluctuates with each new State Budget. This is different than other State's like PA, where the PAFGC is funded 100% by the PACF, receiving not one penny from the PA State General Fund.

Then, of course, we also should recognize that the NYSDEC is not solely involved in Fish and Game, and habitat conservation. They are also enforcing industrial pollution control, Clean Air Acts, etc., etc, and many of these responsibilities would perhaps be best handled by a separate department? When it comes to ECOs, they are involved in enforcement of all of this stuff, not just the fish and game laws. The ECOs are not what you would term "Game Wardens", they are much more, and this, too stretches their resources way too thin.

I have heard some horror stories with "confrontations" with ECOs. I have never had to endure anything like that in Region 9. I am very proud and very happy with the ECOs in our Region. Starts with the Supervising Lt Tom Scott, and his "firm but fair" approach has shown the trickle down affect perhaps more Regional ECOs could use? And the guys here in Region 9 are truly stellar, including the 2005 ECO Of the Year Winner, Mark Maczurkewiecz. ECO Mike Phelps, ECO Roger Thompson, and the others are great to work with, very well trained, and very fair. May not be the same in other Regions.

But this is also due to a lot of hard work and liaisoning between the DEC LE and the Erie County Federation of SPortsmen's Clubs. Our law enforcement committee works very close with the DEC ECOs to develop outreach to the Federated Clubs, getting to know the officers, etc. And the officers make the time to attend the Federation Meetings and discuss with us and update us on the goings on in LE in Region 9 and Erie County. We are a very active, very large Federation and we work closely with these folks, which is a positive for all sportsmen and women in Region 9 and Erie County.

Are any of you guys involved with your county's respective Federation? Do you know if similar efforts are engaged in with your Federation? (I will exempt those living in Genesee County from this Q, as Genesee County doesn't have their own voice, they must work through Oswego County Federation, and the rep that is appointed to handle the Genesee County concerns and desires.)

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

Guys,

Sorry about the misinformation. doctariAFC is correct. I guess I associated the general fund money, as not going to true sportmans concerns, but being diverted to other non funded DEC programs. Thanks for painting a clearer picture doctari.

I think the ECO's in Tioga county do a great job, with the resources they are given.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

What is materializing in this conversation is indicative of how hard is to effect any kind of change.To accomplish that we all have to be close to being on the same page.We have to determine what in fact what our priorities are in some sense so that we can pursue something meaningful.
In Ulster county we need more ECO's they are spread way to thin and poaching is rampant.The unfortunate thing as one gentleman has said we all know folks whose illegal activity is so commonly accepted by themselves that they don't think they are doing any thing wrong.The blatant poachers include some pretty unsavory,low life kind of folks.Am I going to risk the safety of my home or family,for something that likely wont get responded to or wont be able to make stick?
The recently retired ECO in our area is a client and a friend and I have tipped him off about a number of things in the past.He asked me to testify in one instance and I refused.For the reasons previously mentioned.One of the known poachers in our area was a former crack addict,do I want a person with that mind set knowing who got him in trouble.
The mention about how business's are effected by shortening the firearms season is understood,although I would still be a proponent of cutting the season to a one week period of time.In our area that is when the business's see most of their activity any way.
More enforcement,check stations,one buck limit,one week firearm season.That's the direction I would choose to go.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

True words right there. This comes from two sources, primarily. Organization and Education. The reality is that the organization is in place. The grass roots are the conservation and rod & gun clubs, local chapters of National Clubs, et al, that are Federated to the County level umbrella, which acts as the representative for all of us in our specific counties to the NYSCC, which is the state level representative for sportsmen's concerns, rights, access, etc, etc. Another group, but with "similar" organization structure is CANY (Conservation Alliance of NY). Both groups (NYSCC is the larger, older org) each year directionally are defined by their charters to push for specific desires of the sportsmen and women. These desires come from each County Federation, in the form of resolutions. Each County may submit either 3 or 6 (I'll have to check theby-laws again for specifics) resolutions per year, with a deadline for resoltuions being February, I do believe. This gives time for each resolution to be voted up or down by the Federations in total. Federations get their position from membership votes from each member club. Those resolutions that pass, are those initiatives which get pushed. This is in addition to the reactionary responsibilities which take up a lot of time as to protect our 2nd Amendment Rights and rights to trap and hunt. Believe it or not, a movement is afoot to ban certain sized conibear traps, as follows:

Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:25 PM
Subject: NY Trappers - NY Trappers Alert!


> To many of you this comes as no surprise, to some it may come as a shock,
> but we are in danger of losing a very important tool for the harvest of
> furbearers in this state. The NYS Department of Environmental Conservation
> has proposed regulations to limit the use of 220 & 160 conibears on land.
> The proposal as it stands now is extreme and will drastically change the
> way you can set these traps on land. There will be a forthcoming public
> comment period in which we can send letters, emails, faxes and phone calls
> to voice our displeasure and hopefully force a change to the way in
> currently reads. Basically you will not be able to set any body gripping
> trap with a jaw spread over 5" on land unless it is elevated a minimum of
> 4 feet or completely enclosed within a box/bucket with a entrance hole no
> more the 50 square inches. This regulation would apply to both public &
> private land throughout the state, although ADC trappers would be exempt
> from these restrictions. Currently the N!
> YSTA leadership endorses the current proposal as it stands and if you
> would like to let your feelings be heard please contact your regional or
> county representative or plan on attending the next Board of Directors
> meeting scheduled for January 27th at the Herkimer County Fairgrounds in
> Frankfort, NY. A current listing of your representatives can be found on
> the NY Trappers Forum as well as current discussions on this subject. If
> you are a current member of the NYSTA now is the time to make your stand
> and if you aren't a member now is the time to join. There were almost
> 8,000 trapping licenses sold in the state this year and the current
> membership of the NYSTA is less than 2,000. There are over 6,000 trappers
> in this state that are currently getting a free ride and it's all about to
> end. Please speak with your friends & neighbors and if they aren't a
> member get them to join, there is strength in numbers and right now the
> DEC see's us as weak pawn that can be pushed around as!
> they see fit. Even if these folks don't trap, stress to them !
> the importance of banding together as sportmen/women. Once the
> anti-sportsmen groups get a foothold with one group the domino effect will
> surely follow somewhere down the road. Please don't think for one moment
> we aren't in trouble, just look at our neighbors in Massachusetts & New
> Jersey and ask them about there current trapping rights. Remember, we
> still have a chance here, if we lay down now and play dead that's exactly
> what we will be. This is the 2nd time the DEC has acted against the wishes
> of the trappers of NY in the past 2 years, what will be next? I can tell
> you what; we will be trapping with cages or worse yet, not at all. Please
> stay tuned for more information as it becomes available and I urge you to
> contact your NYSTA representatives, your state representatives in Albany
> and the DEC before it's too late.

apologies for the choppiness of the paste job.

Through involvement in grass roots clubs (not just, hey I am a member) and regular attendance at County level meetings, you gain the education. Through the organization we all have the opportunity to get our 2 cents in to set priorities. The resolutions cover a heck of a lot more than hunting concerns, and priorities are set as outdoors recreation in total, not priorities for hunting only, and the fishing only, etc. Massive, and our involvement is criticial.

Now, in regards to increased law enforcement personnel, etc., we truly cannot do much about it, because, believe it or not, the DEC has no control over it, either. Personnel decisions in terms of adding new positions to any part of the Department is up to State Legislation, not the DEC Commissioner. Different avenue, sadly.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I would also ban all spotlighting in NY state.Some of you might laugh but it's a serious problem in some areas....especially when you have a small local village of "bushwackers" that think it's a part of hunting.These guys really pi$$ me off and a good amount of them are night hunting and you know what for. Braggin rights! Happens all the time where I live. I took a eight pointer last year on the second day of gun season. He had a hole at the top of his neck anda exit hole out the top of his shoulder. Must of happened 2 weeks before rifle even opened. Almost every night spotlighters spot a farm i hunt anda few times a year at thisfarm we find bucks with heads cut off.Duringarchery and gun season my familywitness multiple trucks spoting less than 500 feet from our home and neighbors homes. My father and I are going to start calling the state police next year.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

HMMMMMM. Legal deer, harvested legally. Shame on "that" hunter. how dare he. The nerve of someone wanting to hunt his way. He should be flogged, maybe even have his license revoked for such blatent disregard for others feelings/desires.......oh, I forgot, he did it legally and ethically.

By the way, I actually think that very scenario migth be a good compromise for current practices and "AR" in some form. Let the first buck be any legal buck and any subsequent deerbe one that meets an "AR" criteria. Just a thought.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I would whole-heartedly support that approach. In fact, I put that notion in writing in a letter last year during discussions over the CNY QDM plan.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

doughboy.....i have no problem with him shooting a 3" spiked buck, if he wants to put a tag on it.... dont get upset, you must not have read the entire thing where teh guy keeps on hunting for another buck.which i dont know where you hunt but in my area you are allowed only one buck with a firearm. so to shoot the 3" spike and keep hunting for "another" buck is neither legal or ethical.thats what i was saying, not that he shot a young deer..i have nothign against that.as long as after he kills the yearling he is done unless he has doe tags. ...as for teh AR on the second buck tag.i would def. agree to that, however in my area it would only apply to those who either bowhunt or late season muzzle hunt.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

I don't think that is how you stated it (gun hunting only). I interpreted it and was looking at it in respect to how I hunt (bow, gun, ML). In light of what you meant, hunting without a tag, that is a whole other matter and would agree with you that it is wrong and would get me upset as well.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

you are right i did not specify, that is my fault and i apologize. personally i hunt with all 3 as well, but i know plenty of hunters that feel cheated by "us" bowhunters and take it out on the deer by shooting anything they can.

RE: Quick question for NY hunters..envolves AR's
 

Correct me if I am wrong but don't you have to apply for another buck tag if you take one during bow season and want to take another buck during gun?