patrkyhntr

It was explained to me one time that if you wound a deer close to dark you don't have adequate time to follow a blood trail. I think that may have been the reasoning behind the change in hours when it occured. Like most regulations, there is some thought about doing something good when they are passed. What is the old saying? Something like the road to he11 being paved with good intentions?

BTBowhunter

We'll probably never know why this stupid rule was ever put in but your suggestion makes as much sense as any.

There was another rule intended to catch poachers a while ago.... It was illegal to have venison in your freezer past July. The idea was that you should have used up your legal deer by then and any venison posessed after that must be poached in late summer or early fall. Happily, that law went away a few years back when someone had an attack of common sense. It's time for anothe attack of common sense.

Everyone please,

Use the link DennyF provided and let em know your opinion!

muzzyman88

How many hear actually abide by the half hour before sunrise thing? I mean, expecting someone to get into the woods, setup a treestand, climb up, get situated all before 1/2 hour is a joke. I personally go into the woods at least one hour before sunrise and I stay on stand until I can't see anymore. I go in much earlier to avoid over heating, and making me colder on stand. I stay later most times, especially, to avoid spooking deer that I have around my stand.

Like many of the commish's rules, they're just plain silly.

DougE

Aslong as your gun is empty or you don't have an arrow knocked,you can go in the woods well before daylight to set-up and leave after hunting hours.The argument is that there's still plenty of light left to continue hunting for another 1/2 hour after sunset.

lowtempguru

The only thing I will add is that OHIO only gives the 1/2 hr after sunset for archery

BTBowhunter

Thanks for the clarification lowtempguru. Illinois does the same thing. Trying to research all the various adjoining state laws on this issue wasnt exactly easy. I didnt pick up on that.

IMHO, that last half hour is as safe as the half hour before sunrise for ANY weapon but it ought to be OK for archery at the very least. That doesnt mean that I think it's OK to penalize the gun hunters. I really think it ought to be extended for all forms hunting for all seasons except where prevented by federal laws

Big Country

Hey guys, did you get a phone call from the UBP? I got an automated message from them yesterday telling me to go to the PGC website and either voice my opinion, or vote, can`t remember which.....about allowing bowhunters to hunt 30 minutes after sunset.

I have not gone to the PGC site yet, but I will.

R.S.B.

I could pretty easily accept 30 minutes after sunset for archery hunting because things have to be close enough for clear identification to be in bow range. Even in the dark conditions that exist at 30minutes after sunset a person should still be able to tell the difference between a person and a deer once they are within bow range.

For firearm hunting though I am opposed to extending the shooting hours to 30 minutes past sunset because at that time of the day most hunters would be moving out of the woods while they and hunters still on stand would still be in the hunting mode. As the light diminishes there would be hunters watching movement, a hundred yards of more away, and trying to figure out what they were looking at. Some of those hunters would be in the final stages of desperation because they haven’t got their deer yet and this is their last chance. Some of those hunters would also convince themselves they were watching a deer and end up shooting another hunter.

You can argue that the light conditions are just as poor when shooting hours begin in the morning and you would be right about the light conditions. But, in the morning hunters have usually arrived on a stand long before light, generally with the aid of a flashlight, and everyone is just sitting and waiting for a deer to come past them. At that time of the day few hunters are moving around plus the hunters are not yet feeling desperate to get their deer since the day still holds much promise and hope.

Another factor is that researchers, that study the human eye or what the brain processes after the eye has seen it, have determined that the eye and brain adapt and process what ahs been seen more rapidly during increasing light (morning) then diminishing light (evening).

No matter how you want to view it, or whether you want to accept it or not, if we allow rifle hunters to hunt 30 minutes after sunset there will be more hunters looking at other hunters and trying to figure out if they are going to shoot or not. I don’t think that would be a very comfortable feeling for most hunters when those hunters are carrying rifles capable of shooting a person at a couple hundred yards.

I guess I could almost accept expanding the hours to 15 minute past sunset during the late muzzle loader season too though since the deer has to be pretty close for a shot with a muzzle loader and a person should be able to make the distinction between a person and a deer at the closer range even with slightly lower light conditions then are normal for that time of the year, especially when there is snow cover.

I did watch a hunter coming from the woods at about 20 minutes after the end of legal shooting hours during muzzle loader season though and I could see little more then movement and didn’t know what I was watching until they were within about a hundred yards. Granted there was no snow that evening and it was overcast, but I couldn’t even tell the person was wearing an orange vest until they were within about 20 yards of me.

There is a lot to be considered if a person really wants to make a wise decision on this one. I tend to think we are better off being on the conservative side with the regulations then we are by putting hunters at greater risk.

I know if it changes to 30 minutes after sunset during rifle season I will be coming out of the woods, before or after shooing hours, with a flashlight turned on. I also know that I will be looking a lot more closely at hunting equipment and I’ll bet I will be issuing a lot more citations for hunters using lighted sights and scopes. In fact I bet I will even be arresting more people for using a light to better see the deer while they are on stand and trying to make their shot, thus turning their hunt and kill into a major game law violation.

R.S.Bodenhorn

BTBowhunter

OK RSB you bring up some arguements that are worth thinking about on the surface.

However, I'm not convinced when it hasnt seemed to create the problems you describe in an awful lot of states. It hasnt been the easiest information to find on a state by state basis but I'm up to 28 states that end at 1/2 hour after and onlyone (New York) so far that ends all hunting at sunsetlike PA for all weapons. Ohio and Illinois end firearms season at sunset but bow season at 1/2 hour after.

I think if it had proven itself dangerous to hunt that extra 1/2 hour or proven safer to do it PA's way, we would have seen a few more states moving toward a sunset quitting time as well.

I acknowledge that our PGC tends to very conservative about this type of change and easing into this by trying it in bow season first would have been more understandable than the staffs blanket recommendation against it. But they simply said no and I've not seen a reason that I believe most hunters would accept accept as valid.

As far as the hunters state of mind in those low light conditions, i could just as easily argue that a hunter full of anticipation after waiting all year for opening morning might well be excited enough at the sight of movement to to the things you describe before sunrise instead of after sunset. It could easily be argued that desperationOR anticipation, could trigger bad judgement in those prone to it. I would also argue that I'd feel safer coming out by flashlight once it's completely dark than coming out in twilight without a light when I know darn well that even though its quitting time, some guy could easily be hanging on at his stand because he heard movement. I would also beg to differ with you about hunters not moving in the morning. Its been my experience that the period of morning twilight is chock full of guys still moving through the woods rushing to their stands late or moving because they found their first stand choice "occupied". I see Far more guys moving in the first 1/2 hourthan at the end of the day. What hunter here hasnt had the morning parade march past him in that first half hour of the gun season?

Hunting will never be 100% safe.While it is every game agencies job to make and enforce rules that minimize the risks to the participants,those rules need tobe tempered with commmon sense and need to stop short of being so restrictive that they hamper the sport while the additional safety benefit is minimal.

It isnt easy researching this but I have found no information that the last 1/2 hour after sunset accounts for a disproportionate number of mistaken for gameor line of sight shootings anywhere when compared to other times of the day.

Does the PGC staff that recommended against the change have any such data?

muzzyman88

I have never heard of anyone in my area being cited for coming out of the woods a little late during archery season. Many have a good hike to and from their hunting areas. It seems that either way, its very difficult to police something like this anyway. I say why not give the 1/2 hour on both sides, morning and evening and forget about it. What if you hit a deer right at dark and go looking for it? What if you spend a good hour or so with a flashlight looking for a deer?