Possible Mt lion track
01-08-2007, 11:37 AM
#41
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Possible Mt lion track
ORIGINAL: jhoffman
Neville - what do you refer to when you are talking about my sensationalized article of a deer kill by a cougar? - I do not recall this - I have made post about mt lions before but usually in response to anothers post and I have never found a deer killed by a mt lion - Think you may want to read the entire post and get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off - I asked what people thought about the track I did not come out and state hey look at the Mt Lion track I found - I have seen both bobcats and mt lions and know the difference between the two - if other people cannot tell the difference there really is nothing I can do about that - some people just lack knowledge or only know enough to be dangerous and end up spouting off information that just is not true -
Furthermore I did not ever say it was deffinately a cougar track - I ask what people thought - the only think I was pretty sure of was it was not a dog track -
two - I do not live in PA and the Track was not found in PA I live in NY and the track was found in Delevan NY in Cattaraugus County - about 2 hrs from PA -
Three - The PGC may investigate reports but the NYDEC does not - I know a couple of people who have called and reported sightings or thought they found significant evidence that would indicate a courgar being in the area and no one ever shows up.
Four - I do not blame the DEC for this - I am friends with people who either work for or work with the NYDEC and the explaination that I was given is this: If the DEC admits there are "wild cougar" in NY they have to do a study on the impact of the cougar and habitat studies on the locations of the cougar and put regulations in affect to protect the cougar. They simply do not have this money available and the money they do have is better spent on other projects - they would be forced to do the studies with money they do not have - So basically - if they ignore sightings - or evidence of possible cougar behavior - tracks - kills - scat - then cougars are still not in NY and they do not have to do any studies.
Another bit of info I was given by a DEC office is this - that many of the sightings are probably released cougar or escaped cougar that came from individuals who owned them as exotic pets - most of these cougars are the western variety - not the eastern species - the eastern species is protected in NY and most eastern states - the western species is not because it was never native to NY and is classified as an invassive species if found in NY. If you shoot a cougar to actually fine you the DEC would have to prove it is an eastern Cougar not a western Cougar - if they do the test and find you have shot a western cougar then there is no fine - if they find it is an eastern cougar - then they just confirmed a comeback of the eastern cougar in NY and yes you willl be fined -
I am not one of the people out there that believes there is a mt lion on every ridge in NY and PA - or even that there is a wild sustainable population of them - I believe there could be a handfull of them around and that the chance of them being 100% wild is slim - if they are anything like the common house cat though once in the wild for any amount of time I believe thier instincts would most deffinately revert to wild behavior.
I read the MT lion post on here all the time and I agree that 95% of the sightings and info on Mt lions in the east is B.S. but there are the people out there that really spend a lot of thier time in the woods and who come across things that are out of the ordinary - My uncle has video of lynx in his back yard eating a goose carcase in Cannan, NY (look it up on a map) eastern part of the state near Mass. - There is a fisher in St Marys PA that my grandparents see pretty regularly near thier house. - Just because animals are not supposed to be some where does not mean they are not there.
Neville - what do you refer to when you are talking about my sensationalized article of a deer kill by a cougar? - I do not recall this - I have made post about mt lions before but usually in response to anothers post and I have never found a deer killed by a mt lion - Think you may want to read the entire post and get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off - I asked what people thought about the track I did not come out and state hey look at the Mt Lion track I found - I have seen both bobcats and mt lions and know the difference between the two - if other people cannot tell the difference there really is nothing I can do about that - some people just lack knowledge or only know enough to be dangerous and end up spouting off information that just is not true -
Furthermore I did not ever say it was deffinately a cougar track - I ask what people thought - the only think I was pretty sure of was it was not a dog track -
two - I do not live in PA and the Track was not found in PA I live in NY and the track was found in Delevan NY in Cattaraugus County - about 2 hrs from PA -
Three - The PGC may investigate reports but the NYDEC does not - I know a couple of people who have called and reported sightings or thought they found significant evidence that would indicate a courgar being in the area and no one ever shows up.
Four - I do not blame the DEC for this - I am friends with people who either work for or work with the NYDEC and the explaination that I was given is this: If the DEC admits there are "wild cougar" in NY they have to do a study on the impact of the cougar and habitat studies on the locations of the cougar and put regulations in affect to protect the cougar. They simply do not have this money available and the money they do have is better spent on other projects - they would be forced to do the studies with money they do not have - So basically - if they ignore sightings - or evidence of possible cougar behavior - tracks - kills - scat - then cougars are still not in NY and they do not have to do any studies.
Another bit of info I was given by a DEC office is this - that many of the sightings are probably released cougar or escaped cougar that came from individuals who owned them as exotic pets - most of these cougars are the western variety - not the eastern species - the eastern species is protected in NY and most eastern states - the western species is not because it was never native to NY and is classified as an invassive species if found in NY. If you shoot a cougar to actually fine you the DEC would have to prove it is an eastern Cougar not a western Cougar - if they do the test and find you have shot a western cougar then there is no fine - if they find it is an eastern cougar - then they just confirmed a comeback of the eastern cougar in NY and yes you willl be fined -
I am not one of the people out there that believes there is a mt lion on every ridge in NY and PA - or even that there is a wild sustainable population of them - I believe there could be a handfull of them around and that the chance of them being 100% wild is slim - if they are anything like the common house cat though once in the wild for any amount of time I believe thier instincts would most deffinately revert to wild behavior.
I read the MT lion post on here all the time and I agree that 95% of the sightings and info on Mt lions in the east is B.S. but there are the people out there that really spend a lot of thier time in the woods and who come across things that are out of the ordinary - My uncle has video of lynx in his back yard eating a goose carcase in Cannan, NY (look it up on a map) eastern part of the state near Mass. - There is a fisher in St Marys PA that my grandparents see pretty regularly near thier house. - Just because animals are not supposed to be some where does not mean they are not there.
if the PGC would have come out and investigated the sighting and took prints instead of telling the callers thatOH,GROUND IS TO HARD or I BELIEVE YOU SAW A YOUNG MOUNTAIN LION BUT I DONT BELIEVETHEY EXIST..
this is the exact words that was told to 2 people riding together,great hunters,in woods all time.know difference between lion/bobcat..
yes, they both saw 2 ft round tail on the mountain lion..so, pgc could not say it was BOBCAT ..
maybe ,just maybe these lions are moving thru states here like pa./ny etc..this may be why that you see a lion 1 time or 2 as someone said in 10 years in your area..that can be the only reason, in my opinion..
if lion stuck around yearly,with snow we would be seeing tracks more in that area..
most of our sighting are in summer/fall and sometimes it is years between sighting..
01-08-2007, 12:32 PM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Possible Mt lion track
ORIGINAL: jhoffman
Where abouts in PA are you from sproulman - I have property in St.Marys - there is a lot of land down there to cover and very remote in sections. We have a good number of Elk down by our place and as big as they are they slip in and out of the laurel and disappear on a moments notice - if a 900 lbs elk can hide that well you can imaging what a lion, bobcat or lynx could do with that kind of cover.
It is possible though I do not think likely that the track I found could be a dog but it would be one of the larget dogs I have seen if it is.
Where abouts in PA are you from sproulman - I have property in St.Marys - there is a lot of land down there to cover and very remote in sections. We have a good number of Elk down by our place and as big as they are they slip in and out of the laurel and disappear on a moments notice - if a 900 lbs elk can hide that well you can imaging what a lion, bobcat or lynx could do with that kind of cover.
It is possible though I do not think likely that the track I found could be a dog but it would be one of the larget dogs I have seen if it is.
too bad you cant find a better track and put that plaster stuff in it..that would be something..
01-08-2007, 12:37 PM
#44
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harrisburg PA USA
Posts: 69
RE: Possible Mt lion track
I copied a dated e-mail that was sent to Jim Slinsky. I did not author the reply and it was not aimed at anyone here. If you look at the end of the post you'll see the original author. Since it was his work, nor mine, I reproduced it in its entirety.
01-08-2007, 12:38 PM
#45
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Possible Mt lion track
ORIGINAL: BaileyHill
I own one of the best cold track strike hounds in the US. All the papers are on file, his blood is so blue he looks like a Nittany Lion when he bleeds. He has over 100 cats to his credit at 7 years old. you can bet I'll put him on any tracks I findthat are less than 2 weeks old. If there's a cougar at the end of those tracks I will shoot him dead!
Then let the GC try to tell me I don't know what I've seen or killed. Or that it was a tame cat released into the wild illegal. I would also be surprized if the GC didn't try to tell everyone that the picture was taken out of state,etc. THAT is the type or org they have turned into.
ATLEAST I won't need to be worried about a citation 'cause the PGC then would need to admit that there are some cats here in Pa.
I own one of the best cold track strike hounds in the US. All the papers are on file, his blood is so blue he looks like a Nittany Lion when he bleeds. He has over 100 cats to his credit at 7 years old. you can bet I'll put him on any tracks I findthat are less than 2 weeks old. If there's a cougar at the end of those tracks I will shoot him dead!
Then let the GC try to tell me I don't know what I've seen or killed. Or that it was a tame cat released into the wild illegal. I would also be surprized if the GC didn't try to tell everyone that the picture was taken out of state,etc. THAT is the type or org they have turned into.
ATLEAST I won't need to be worried about a citation 'cause the PGC then would need to admit that there are some cats here in Pa.
01-09-2007, 03:02 PM
#46
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 339
RE: Possible Mt lion track
What do you all think the % is of people who actually think they have seen a mt lion to people who just make things up to have something to talk about. I think it is probable about 3%
This is why many people blow off legitimte claims as B.S even though they may be acurate - I wonder how many uninvestigated claims may have actually turned up at least some evidence if they were checked on instead of being blown off - but on the other end how many wasted man hours would have been blown on made up claims.
This is why many people blow off legitimte claims as B.S even though they may be acurate - I wonder how many uninvestigated claims may have actually turned up at least some evidence if they were checked on instead of being blown off - but on the other end how many wasted man hours would have been blown on made up claims.
01-09-2007, 04:55 PM
#47
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 12,564
RE: Possible Mt lion track
that track is not bobcat..its a dog or mountain lion, i feel..LABS will make 1 big set of tracks..
The size of this bobcat's front ankle is the size of an average man's wrist. Granted not all bobcats are this big but as you can see some are. Also I am not trying to discredit anyone here it is just that without that track being clear who would possibly know what kind of animal made that track.
01-10-2007, 06:34 AM
#48
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 339
RE: Possible Mt lion track
Nice looking cat - I have only ever seen one Bobcat in NY and it was less than half that size and one in PA that was about half the size of that one.
I agree it could be a big bobcat but I have seen 1 more of them than I have seen Mt lion so either way I would like to know what it was that made it - I would be as excited over a bobcat taking up residence and possibly making a come back in my area as I would be to find out a Mt lion was hanging around the area - I think it's great when animals reestablish them selves in areas that they were driven out of - it just shows that they have learned to adapt despite humans parasitic affect on the environment - not that all people are like that but look at the big picture we take more from the planet than we give back and eventually it will catch up to us and we'll all be in for a rude awakening when it does.
I agree it could be a big bobcat but I have seen 1 more of them than I have seen Mt lion so either way I would like to know what it was that made it - I would be as excited over a bobcat taking up residence and possibly making a come back in my area as I would be to find out a Mt lion was hanging around the area - I think it's great when animals reestablish them selves in areas that they were driven out of - it just shows that they have learned to adapt despite humans parasitic affect on the environment - not that all people are like that but look at the big picture we take more from the planet than we give back and eventually it will catch up to us and we'll all be in for a rude awakening when it does.
01-10-2007, 08:15 AM
#49
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 82
RE: Possible Mt lion track
Here in Eastern NY there are lots of bobcats and they can be big. I got trail cam pictures last winter of one every bit as big as the one from Maine. the thing with Bobbies is they usually only have a max print size of 2 3/4" and three is tops. Now Lynx have huge feet for their size and from what I have read the only way to tell them from cougar is by the length of the stride. So one track doesn't tell much. People do keep Bobcats and Lynx as pets and they cross breed them so you never know what you might find
01-10-2007, 05:02 PM
#50
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 12,564
RE: Possible Mt lion track
There is no doubt about it, that they can be as big there too. But when you look at the feet the 2 3/4" is the standard of the average size bobcats ( 20 -- 27 pounds). These big ones have big feet on them and no they are not hi-breds either. I was sent another pic of a 34lb bobcat and a 27 lbcoyote the same guy had caught a few days ago. If you look at the front paw and the back of the guys hand you will see they are almost the same size. But, I am no way saying that the track may or may not be a mt. lion I am only giving another idea that may not be realized.
