RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

sadly the 40% number is fact as published by the PGC. They put a bandaid on things by checking deer at processors and determining a reporting rate based on those deer checked by WCO's vs the cards that come in.

As I see it there are a few reasons for the low reporting rate:

1 Hunter Apathy. This is by far the biggest part of the problem

2 lack of ability by the PGC to accurately police those who don't bother to report

3 due in part to their to the lack of ability to be accurate, the PGC doesnt pursue those who dont report

4 If you are busted for not reporting, the fine is not meaningful

5 Misguided protests. Some huntesr who arent happy with one thing or another refuse to report their deer. In some cases it's a direct result of 2,3 and 4

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

Welp,some don't wanna agree with this but hunters are a big part of the problem in PA.Some can't let a deer walk.Some say they only saw one doe in two weeks of hunting so they whacked it.Ok that's fine,it's legal but then don't complain about the lack of deer.Our area got hammered by HR but we started passing on does two years ago and are seeing the results.Obviously in very heavily hunted lands without the cooperation of fellow hunters this won't work.Heck I see guys complain about the lack of deer yet put on drives willing to shoot anything that moves.They're like locusts.
Then there's the harvest cards.:eek:
Now having said that the PGC needs to set policy knowing that most PA hunters are going to whack as many deer as are allowed.And they will shoot the button bucks so don't set policy thinking they won't.
But on the other hand a feller is better off shooting a BB if he {needs the meat}as they say then shooting a mature doe.For future populations anyway.And most likely they're killing somebody elses future buck anyway.I'm exempt,don't shoot does or bb's.:D
Then there's the DCNR.Maine with by far poorer habitat then ours not to mention the more severe winters has goals on average of 20 DPSM yet our DCNR has plenty of areas below 15 yet still hand out demap tags.There's a no win situation as far as deer hunting goes on the state forest lands.
So yes while in my opinion deer management policy needs retooling the hunters themselves has to take responsibility also.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

I'm sure there's some truth to all this.However most of it it smells to high heaven of a One Sided Biased opinion written by an unknown who has stated he's hunted WMU 2G for 40 years.The writer states it should be closed as the tremendous number of yotes,bears,bobcats and ML's would keep deer in check.Great management theory.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

The dismal 40% reporting rate has been reported by PGC officials on numerous occasions, so it's certainly not a secret. Neither are the actual "regular" and DMAP report cards. I have seen them at several public forums over the years, for anyone to look at, including this past September at the PGC open house.

C'mon, John. You can do much better than that. Such reports have been available to anyone that wanted to look at them,for as long as I can remember. On several occasions they've had them...or
(the data base of same on computers), available at the PGC booth during the Eastern Sports and Outdoors show in Harrisburg.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

OK - BTB your point is well taken. As a hunter who is always lookin at neighboring states deer management it is a breath of fresh air to hear something positive come out of PA.Your 2 posts clearly show something positive.

Other than this MB I talk to a fair number of guys on the street who hunt PA.All - Everyone has stated there are fewer deer to see but "better" deer overall and older more mature bucks to be had.

Many say you can't eat horns.I agree with that up to to a point.Then we have or should have as hunters a game management plan when we go afield.As sportsman we owe it to a certain degree to "Let Em Grow".

Any avid ethical fisherman will tell you the exact same management theory holds true.Only differance you can only let a deer "Walk" you can't practice catch and release.

BTW - There is no excuse from either side of fence for not sending in a report.How do you manage when only 40% of users/customers send in a report card?? The fines might be to little but if they were 2x or 3x how would they enforce it? Fines are not the answer.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

You cannot blame hunters for shooting does, fawns, and button bucks. It's not the hunter who sets the policy that allows this kind of slaughter. The people responsible are our Board of commissioners who approve such heavy allocations of antlerless licenses. If they were to hunt public land you can be sure the quota for antlerless licenses would be much smaller,and that's a fact.
And before Dennis foolishly asks what does a Ciommissioner hunting public land have to do with anything, allow me to say that our PGC Executive Director Carl Roe is a U.S. Army retired full bird colonel. He above all should know that a good officer and leader experiences everything that his soldiers are expected to endurein the field. He eats what they eat, he sleeps where they sleep, he wears what they wear. (Unless he's a REMF)That being the case, his Commissioners should be hunting Game lands. If they did hunt Game Lands the Game Lands would be one hell of a sight better than they are.

If you give permission for a hunter to kill adoe, fawn or button buckthe hunter will do just that. That is exactly what our irresponsible Commissioners have done. The blame rests on their shoulders.

The one good thing about the impending DCNR takeover is that Mr. D will probably dismiss a few of the PGC's Commissioners.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

I just read on the PGC web site that the 2005 harvest results had anywhere from 30-70% of hunters send in report cards depending on the management unit. The PGC takes "Field observations" into account when they calculate the total harvet for each unit. The total kill was estimated at 354,000. With anywhere form 30-70% these numbers are absolutely useless. I think a lot of hunters don't bother sending in their cards becasue they know it's a waste of time. I'm thinking about sending mine in and telling them I filled every tag so it will be one step closer to reducing doe tags in my area.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

I also believe this to be true.

I don't think that human subsistance is a valid concern in deer management. If you want meat beyond a deer a year, go to the supermarket. Hunting is formost a recreational activity, not a human relief effort. Where deer densities and habitat can support hunter/gatherer activities it's OK, but expansive mature forests cannot be expected to produce that volume of meat per hunter. If you want free meat for the whole year, go to a region where unlimited bonus tags are offered. Some think of deer hunting as a welfare program.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

Seems like all I hear and read about is how there are to many doe tags being sold.Well even if there were 3 million doesnt mean we have to buy them all up,we are the ones buying and killing the does, so if u bought one and killed one you really should just keep your mouth closed.

RE: Interesting Pa Deer Article
 

We absolutely need accurate numbers for the deer harvest every year!! I mean how hard is it to fill out a report card and put the prepaid postage card in the mail?? It's rediculous that the Game Commission is forced to estimate the harvest because hunters won't do the responsible thing and send in their report card!! Wake up!!