What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
12-13-2006, 07:44 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,621
What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
I've read many threads about the AR and deer management here in PA. Some are for and some against.
This is what I sse in the future of PA;
More hunters will hang it up over the next few years. With a license increase and less deer this will happen. I know a few who quit last year and stuck to it. They didn't buy a license at sat this year out. My father being one of them.
Less youths taking up hunting. My daughter quit this year. I've talked to a couple youths this years and almost all of them said hunting is boring. I guess when schools push soccer, football, wrestling and other sports, that hunting just isn't as exciting, especially when a kid sits all day and doesn't see a deer.
In the future you will see more posted ground. As more hunters get discouraged, they realize they need to either buy land or lease land to ensure a good place to hunt. As property owners realize hunters are willing to pay money tolease and hunttheir land they will do exactly that. Especially if they know their land holds big bucks or many deer.
PA will become like Texas. Watch for it.
Look for the PGC to cut many of its programs as the number of hunters drop out of the sport due to increased license fees and lack of deer. They won't have the money. I see bigger financial problems on the horizon.
Look for more conflicts among hunters. As hunters start scouting to find better hunting spots, they will encroach on other hunters that already hunt those spots.
Some of the supporters of PA's deer management will find that out. While you may enjoy your honey holes today, it is just a matter of time till they are discovered.
There area few fortunate souls who own their own land, that will suddenly find, they will be dealing with trespassers. Some guys just don't care. They realize their is little a landowner can do to them. I seen this first hand this year.
The future of hunting does not look very bright in my eyes. And to think this was all brought on, in the quest for bigger antlers.
This is what I sse in the future of PA;
More hunters will hang it up over the next few years. With a license increase and less deer this will happen. I know a few who quit last year and stuck to it. They didn't buy a license at sat this year out. My father being one of them.
Less youths taking up hunting. My daughter quit this year. I've talked to a couple youths this years and almost all of them said hunting is boring. I guess when schools push soccer, football, wrestling and other sports, that hunting just isn't as exciting, especially when a kid sits all day and doesn't see a deer.
In the future you will see more posted ground. As more hunters get discouraged, they realize they need to either buy land or lease land to ensure a good place to hunt. As property owners realize hunters are willing to pay money tolease and hunttheir land they will do exactly that. Especially if they know their land holds big bucks or many deer.
PA will become like Texas. Watch for it.
Look for the PGC to cut many of its programs as the number of hunters drop out of the sport due to increased license fees and lack of deer. They won't have the money. I see bigger financial problems on the horizon.
Look for more conflicts among hunters. As hunters start scouting to find better hunting spots, they will encroach on other hunters that already hunt those spots.
Some of the supporters of PA's deer management will find that out. While you may enjoy your honey holes today, it is just a matter of time till they are discovered.
There area few fortunate souls who own their own land, that will suddenly find, they will be dealing with trespassers. Some guys just don't care. They realize their is little a landowner can do to them. I seen this first hand this year.
The future of hunting does not look very bright in my eyes. And to think this was all brought on, in the quest for bigger antlers.
12-13-2006, 08:59 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
I tend to agree with most of your statements. The future does not look good. They are already cutting a lot of expenses and will go even further down the road.
I'm one of those fortunate souls who hunts a large peice of managed property my family owns. However, the properties outside our borders have been hammered and we're seeing the results of over harvest on our property now.
I have no problems with the antler restrictions. Hell, I wish they'd go 4pt state wide and throw in the "wide as its ears" rule. But IMHO, the doe harvest is out of control in many areas. I'm glad to see a cut back in tags but the damage has been done and it will take some time for herds in some areas to come back to reasonable levels.
To tell ya the truth, I wish they'd go back to the traditional 3 day doe season. I miss the tradition of "buck season" we once had. And if you weren't successful on a buck, you had three days to take your frustration out on big ol' doe.
However, I"m worried what may happen if one day the PGC goes under and DCNR takes over. It might be worse yet.
I'm one of those fortunate souls who hunts a large peice of managed property my family owns. However, the properties outside our borders have been hammered and we're seeing the results of over harvest on our property now.
I have no problems with the antler restrictions. Hell, I wish they'd go 4pt state wide and throw in the "wide as its ears" rule. But IMHO, the doe harvest is out of control in many areas. I'm glad to see a cut back in tags but the damage has been done and it will take some time for herds in some areas to come back to reasonable levels.
To tell ya the truth, I wish they'd go back to the traditional 3 day doe season. I miss the tradition of "buck season" we once had. And if you weren't successful on a buck, you had three days to take your frustration out on big ol' doe.
However, I"m worried what may happen if one day the PGC goes under and DCNR takes over. It might be worse yet.
12-13-2006, 09:52 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western PA
Posts: 1,356
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
i agree with everything you said. The future here in PA looks real bleak and it's a shame. It used to be all about tradition and you had alot of fun. Now everyone is quitting and sure it's still funbut sitting there for weeks on end seeing no deer really makes you think if it's worth it. I'll still be out there no matter what, but I know alot of guys who wont.
12-14-2006, 01:07 AM
#5
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 42
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
ORIGINAL: Windwalker7
I've read many threads about the AR and deer management here in PA. Some are for and some against.
This is what I sse in the future of PA;
More hunters will hang it up over the next few years. With a license increase and less deer this will happen. I know a few who quit last year and stuck to it. They didn't buy a license at sat this year out. My father being one of them.
Less youths taking up hunting. My daughter quit this year. I've talked to a couple youths this years and almost all of them said hunting is boring. I guess when schools push soccer, football, wrestling and other sports, that hunting just isn't as exciting, especially when a kid sits all day and doesn't see a deer.
In the future you will see more posted ground. As more hunters get discouraged, they realize they need to either buy land or lease land to ensure a good place to hunt. As property owners realize hunters are willing to pay money tolease and hunttheir land they will do exactly that. Especially if they know their land holds big bucks or many deer.
PA will become like Texas. Watch for it.
Look for the PGC to cut many of its programs as the number of hunters drop out of the sport due to increased license fees and lack of deer. They won't have the money. I see bigger financial problems on the horizon.
Look for more conflicts among hunters. As hunters start scouting to find better hunting spots, they will encroach on other hunters that already hunt those spots.
Some of the supporters of PA's deer management will find that out. While you may enjoy your honey holes today, it is just a matter of time till they are discovered.
There area few fortunate souls who own their own land, that will suddenly find, they will be dealing with trespassers. Some guys just don't care. They realize their is little a landowner can do to them. I seen this first hand this year.
The future of hunting does not look very bright in my eyes. And to think this was all brought on, in the quest for bigger antlers.
I've read many threads about the AR and deer management here in PA. Some are for and some against.
This is what I sse in the future of PA;
More hunters will hang it up over the next few years. With a license increase and less deer this will happen. I know a few who quit last year and stuck to it. They didn't buy a license at sat this year out. My father being one of them.
Less youths taking up hunting. My daughter quit this year. I've talked to a couple youths this years and almost all of them said hunting is boring. I guess when schools push soccer, football, wrestling and other sports, that hunting just isn't as exciting, especially when a kid sits all day and doesn't see a deer.
In the future you will see more posted ground. As more hunters get discouraged, they realize they need to either buy land or lease land to ensure a good place to hunt. As property owners realize hunters are willing to pay money tolease and hunttheir land they will do exactly that. Especially if they know their land holds big bucks or many deer.
PA will become like Texas. Watch for it.
Look for the PGC to cut many of its programs as the number of hunters drop out of the sport due to increased license fees and lack of deer. They won't have the money. I see bigger financial problems on the horizon.
Look for more conflicts among hunters. As hunters start scouting to find better hunting spots, they will encroach on other hunters that already hunt those spots.
Some of the supporters of PA's deer management will find that out. While you may enjoy your honey holes today, it is just a matter of time till they are discovered.
There area few fortunate souls who own their own land, that will suddenly find, they will be dealing with trespassers. Some guys just don't care. They realize their is little a landowner can do to them. I seen this first hand this year.
The future of hunting does not look very bright in my eyes. And to think this was all brought on, in the quest for bigger antlers.
12-14-2006, 06:21 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
More hunters will hang it up over the next few years. With a license increase and less deer this will happen. I know a few who quit last year and stuck to it. They didn't buy a license at sat this year out. My father being one of them.
In the future you will see more posted ground. As more hunters get discouraged, they realize they need to either buy land or lease land to ensure a good place to hunt. As property owners realize hunters are willing to pay money tolease and hunttheir land they will do exactly that. Especially if they know their land holds big bucks or many deer.
PA will become like Texas. Watch for it.
PA will become like Texas. Watch for it.
Look for the PGC to cut many of its programs as the number of hunters drop out of the sport due to increased license fees and lack of deer. They won't have the money. I see bigger financial problems on the horizon.
Look for more conflicts among hunters. As hunters start scouting to find better hunting spots, they will encroach on other hunters that already hunt those spots.
Some of the supporters of PA's deer management will find that out. While you may enjoy your honey holes today, it is just a matter of time till they are discovered.
Some of the supporters of PA's deer management will find that out. While you may enjoy your honey holes today, it is just a matter of time till they are discovered.
There area few fortunate souls who own their own land, that will suddenly find, they will be dealing with trespassers. Some guys just don't care. They realize their is little a landowner can do to them. I seen this first hand this year.
The future of hunting does not look very bright in my eyes. And to think this was all brought on, in the quest for bigger antlers.
12-14-2006, 06:32 AM
#7
Host of Hosts
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,780
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
Windwalker7, I can honestly say you have nailed it in most everthing you said. Great post you put alot of thought into it.
Hardwoods...your saying that nothing Windwalker said made any sense? You usually have a little more to add to these type of topics than your last post.
I have a real bad feeling that this is by design. I think to overall goal is to eliminate the PGC altogether and put the DCNR in charge of everything. Don't know why I feel this way it's just a gut feeling I guess. I don't trust Rendell. He's a very good poilitician and very sneaky. He knows how to disguise things very well. Maybe the sky is falling. I don't know. But I do know we have alot to be concerned about and Windwalker has given us just a few examples.
Oh my god the sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
ThePGc is in finacial trouble and the best thing we can do to help fix that is to SCREAM at our legislators, especially the Democrats who banded together and flat out said no to an increase, and tellthem to pass a fair increase. We also need to hold the PGc's feet to the fire when it comes to the continued practice of not harvesting the allowable 1% of their timber each year. I still can't figure out why they sit on money (the trees) every year while they can't pay the bills.
12-14-2006, 07:05 AM
#8
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NW. PA
Posts: 135
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
Windwalker,
I also agree with almost everything you said. With an exception of it all being done to grow larger bucks.
The PCG has piggy backed the herd reduction with the ARs to try and maintain hunter support. However, if the deer herd is over harvested ARs cannot even come close to obtainining its potential. Because it reduces the number of little bucks being born, that over time grow into the larger bucks.
Before ARs were introduced We still had a few big / mature deer. This shows that it is not a lack of food that reduced our mature deer population. The biggest hold back was the fact that we shot most of the bucks at 1 1/2 years old. Before they ever had a chance to mature.
I aggree that if the PGC is going to introduce ARs we should also reduce the numbers of doe slightly to accomodate for the increased number of bucks(thus closely maintaining the total deer population). However, in my opinion this 'slight' reduction has been way over done.
Its my thoughts also that if we were to keep the AR's and go back to a traditional 3 day doe season, and properly manage the allocated number of doe permits, we would see a great increase in number of deer we see, and many of these deer would be more mature bucks.
I also agree with almost everything you said. With an exception of it all being done to grow larger bucks.
The PCG has piggy backed the herd reduction with the ARs to try and maintain hunter support. However, if the deer herd is over harvested ARs cannot even come close to obtainining its potential. Because it reduces the number of little bucks being born, that over time grow into the larger bucks.
Before ARs were introduced We still had a few big / mature deer. This shows that it is not a lack of food that reduced our mature deer population. The biggest hold back was the fact that we shot most of the bucks at 1 1/2 years old. Before they ever had a chance to mature.
I aggree that if the PGC is going to introduce ARs we should also reduce the numbers of doe slightly to accomodate for the increased number of bucks(thus closely maintaining the total deer population). However, in my opinion this 'slight' reduction has been way over done.
Its my thoughts also that if we were to keep the AR's and go back to a traditional 3 day doe season, and properly manage the allocated number of doe permits, we would see a great increase in number of deer we see, and many of these deer would be more mature bucks.
12-14-2006, 07:06 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
It's a competition any more. Who can get the biggest buck. My daughter hunted harder than any man could to show she was tough enough for the challenge. She is 13 and God bless her soul. She was out there every morning with me to try and get a deer. 2 weeks of rifle season she was out there 6 days for she been up60 hrs at the least thinking about deer. One deer she seen full body while it was running. Only shot she had at a deer. She will not give up. What touched me was when she said dad, I hunted for 2 weeks and only seen one deer to shoot at. Now that touches anyone. The deer was running when she shot at her. Atleast she seen the full body of the deer. She kept warm from the hot hands in her hand muffs and the ones in her boots. She sat in an old wooden treestand and fed the field mice trail mix as they rustled in a pile of twigs below from the browse cutting years before. The season has ended without her harvesting a deer. But the memory we have ofour first hunt together will last a life time. Next year it's time to kill and enjoymore memories to remember. Amen
Today, people seem to think that a deer tag means they paid for a deer and expect one no matter what. Some equate deer hunting to going grocery shopping. Something for nothing is what deer hunting seems to be about these days.
12-14-2006, 07:23 AM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Howard PA USA
Posts: 2,221
RE: What I see in my crystal ball, concerning PA.
ORIGINAL: TRYKONOISSEUR
Windwalker7, I can honestly say you have nailed it in most everthing you said. Great post you put alot of thought into it.
Hardwoods...your saying that nothing Windwalker said made any sense? You usually have a little more to add to these type of topics than your last post.
I have a real bad feeling that this is by design. I think to overall goal is to eliminate the PGC altogether and put the DCNR in charge of everything. Don't know why I feel this way it's just a gut feeling I guess. I don't trust Rendell. He's a very good poilitician and very sneaky. He knows how to disguise things very well. Maybe the sky is falling. I don't know. But I do know we have alot to be concerned about and Windwalker has given us just a few examples.
Windwalker7, I can honestly say you have nailed it in most everthing you said. Great post you put alot of thought into it.
Oh my god the sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
ThePGc is in finacial trouble and the best thing we can do to help fix that is to SCREAM at our legislators, especially the Democrats who banded together and flat out said no to an increase, and tellthem to pass a fair increase. We also need to hold the PGc's feet to the fire when it comes to the continued practice of not harvesting the allowable 1% of their timber each year. I still can't figure out why they sit on money (the trees) every year while they can't pay the bills.