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Fines way too low

Old 12-08-2006, 06:28 PM
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Default Fines way too low

Check out this article from the PGC website. I think the fines they hand down for these poachers is way too low for the crimes. I say triple the fines and give half of it back to the PGC for some of their shortfalls.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?Q=170726&A=11

Pennsylvania Game Commission - State Wildlife Management Agency




2006 Press Releases
SearchPennsylvania Game Commission - State Wildlife Management Agency HomePrintable VersioneMail
Release #160-06


FIVE NONRESIDENT POACHERS APPREHENDED IN CRAWFORD COUNTY

FRANKLIN - On Nov. 30, an anonymous tip from a concerned citizen led Pennsylvania Game Commission Wildlife Conservation Officer Mario Piccirilli to a farm along Turkey Track Road in Conneautville, Crawford County. The information WCO Piccirilli received indicated that five non-resident hunters were illegally shooting deer.

A search of the area resulted in nine illegal deer being confiscated and five individuals being charged with 15 counts of Game and Wildlife Code violations. Their fines totaled $7,500, plus court costs. The individuals were taken into custody and arraigned before District Justice Lincoln Zilhaver and, after failing to post bond, were committed to the Crawford County Jail.

On Dec. 1, the defendants posted bond and pled guilty to all charges at District Justice Rita Marwoods' office in Linesville.

"This was a case of individuals shooting whatever they pleased without regard to seasons or proper license and tagging requirements," WCO Piccirilli stated. "I hope citizens realize how important timely information is to officers investigating and prosecuting these violators. One phone call set this case in motion. Without a concerned citizen these violations would most likely have gone undetected."

WCO Piccirilli was assisted by Deputy WCOs Larry Hergenroeder and John Ittel, Erie County WCO Michael Wojtecki, Crawford County Land Management Group Supervisor Jerry Bish and Northwest Region Director Keith Harbaugh.

The defendants and their penalties are:

Bryan Scott Patterson, age 34, of Madisonville, Tennessee, pled guilty to two counts of unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife and one charge of Unlawful killing or taking of big game, and fined $1,500 plus court costs;

Steven Raymond Belk, age 42, of Athens, Tennessee, pled guilty to two counts of unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife and one charge of unlawful killing or taking of big game, and fined $1,500 plus court costs;

Jeffrey Pernel Millsaps, age 30, of Madisonville, Tennessee, pled guilty to two counts of unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife and one charge of unlawful killing or taking of big game, and fined fine $1,500 plus court costs;

Clifford Lee Williams Jr., age 34, of Madisonville, Tennessee, pled guilty to three counts of unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife and one count of unlawful killing or taking of big game, and fined $2,000 plus court costs; and

Kevin Michael Rushing, age 27, of Oskaloosa, Iowa, pled guilty to one count of unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife and one charge of unlawful killing or taking of big game, and fined $1,000 plus court costs.

Created in 1895 as an independent state agency, the Game Commission is responsible for conserving and managing all wild birds and mammals in the Commonwealth, establishing hunting seasons and bag limits, enforcing hunting and trapping laws, and managing habitat on the 1.4 million acres of State Game Lands it has purchased over the years with hunting and furtaking license dollars to safeguard wildlife habitat. The agency also conducts numerous wildlife conservation programs for schools, civic organizations and sportsmen's clubs.

The Game Commission does not receive any general state taxpayer dollars for its annual operating budget. The agency is funded by license sales revenues; the state's share of the federal Pittman-Robertson program, which is an excise tax collected through the sale of sporting arms and ammunition; and monies from the sale of oil, gas, coal, timber and minerals derived from State Game Lands.



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Old 12-08-2006, 07:09 PM
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Not enough info to say if the fine was appropriate or not.If they didn't leave them go to waiste and had them skinned to eat.I say the fine was to high.If they shot them and let them lay.Then I think it was appropriate.If they was shooting trophy size bucks and selling them,Then yes.the fine should of been trippled even multiplied by 10.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:07 PM
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Not enough info to say if the fine was appropriate or not.If they didn't leave them go to waiste and had them skinned to eat.I say the fine was to high.If they shot them and let them lay.Then I think it was appropriate.If they was shooting trophy size bucks and selling them,Then yes.the fine should of been trippled even multiplied by 10.
What the heck does it matter if they killed them and skinned them or left them lay ILLEGAL KILLING is ILLEGAL KILLING. So if they were gonna eat their ILLEGALLY taken deer the fine should be lower than if they weren't going to eat them. I just don't get your logic. If it is a trophy they should pay 10 times the amount, but if it wasn't a trophy( maybe a button buck)and the were gonna eat it the fine is too high? How much should they pay? Or is the price of their tags enough?
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:20 PM
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ORIGINAL: TRYKONOISSEUR

Not enough info to say if the fine was appropriate or not.If they didn't leave them go to waiste and had them skinned to eat.I say the fine was to high.If they shot them and let them lay.Then I think it was appropriate.If they was shooting trophy size bucks and selling them,Then yes.the fine should of been trippled even multiplied by 10.
What the heck does it matter if they killed them and skinned them or left them lay ILLEGAL KILLING is ILLEGAL KILLING. So if they wer gonna eat their ILLEGALLY taken deer the fine should be lower than if they weren't going to eat them. I just don't get your logic. If it is a trophy they should pay 10 times the amount, but if it wasn't a trophy( maybe a button buck)and the were gonna eat it the fine is too high? How much should they pay? Or is the price of their tags enough?
If they was trophy and selling them. You think all fines should be the same?Ok,sounds good.I will go out kill a trophy deer,Sell it for 25 to 30k and pay a 3 times amount you say,About 3k in a fine.No big deal.I still made a profit 22 to 27k off that deer.You want the same price for different situations.There is a big difference between the 3 mentioned.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:46 PM
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Default RE: Fines way too low

[quote][If they was trophy and selling them. You think all fines should be the same?Ok,sounds good.I will go out kill a trophy deer,Sell it for 25 to 30k and pay a 3 times amount you say,About 3k in a fine.No big deal.I still made a profit 22 to 27k off that deer.You want the same price for different situations.There is a big difference between the 3 mentioned/quote]

First of all you have quite the imagination. 25 to 30,000.00 for a Pennsylvania Whitetail ?You could hunt anywhere in the country for that kind of money probably10 years in a row and kill alot of trophies.You can buya mounton ebay alot cheaper. That's funny! I never said all fines should be the same I said the fines for their crimes were too low, you added the different scenarios with your first post.Listen I'm honored that you find the need to follow me around hunting netand respond to my posts, but please try to bring a little more to the discussion. And spell check would help to.

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Old 12-08-2006, 09:08 PM
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[quote]ORIGINAL: TRYKONOISSEUR

[If they was trophy and selling them. You think all fines should be the same?Ok,sounds good.I will go out kill a trophy deer,Sell it for 25 to 30k and pay a 3 times amount you say,About 3k in a fine.No big deal.I still made a profit 22 to 27k off that deer.You want the same price for different situations.There is a big difference between the 3 mentioned/quote]

First of all you have quite the imagination. 25 to 30,000.00 for a Pennsylvania Whitetail ?You could hunt anywhere in the country for that kind of money probably10 years in a row and kill alot of trophies.You can buya mounton ebay alot cheaper. That's funny! I never said all fines should be the same I said the fines for their crimes were too low, you added the different scenarios with your first post.Listen I'm honored that you find the need to follow me around hunting netand respond to my posts, but please try to bring a little more to the discussion. And spell check would help to.
Out of state hunters pay 500$ just for a mangy looking buck to take home to show their wifes that they been hunting.We are not talking about a mounted deer head,We are talking about a full body dead dear.And yes they will pay it for a trophy size deer.Everyone that hunts or pretends to huntare not poor.You all so don't think that some make huge bits with friends back home on hunting?You are wrong if you think that all so.

I believe we are on here at the same time and we have been posting on the same topics here.If you think I am following you around,You really need to think a little smarter to realize this.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: Fines way too low

Out of state hunters pay 500$ just for a mangy looking buck to take home to show their wifes that they been hunting.We are not talking about a mounted deer head,We are talking about a full body dead dear.And yes they will pay it for a trophy size deer.Everyone that hunts or pretends to huntare not poor.You all so don't think that some make huge bits with friends back home on hunting?You are wrong if you think that all so.

I believe we are on here at the same time and we have been posting on the same topics here.If you think I am following you around,You really need to think a little smarter to realize this.
All I can say to this is WOW! I'm at a loss for words.
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:15 AM
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Default RE: Fines way too low

Not enough info to say if the fine was appropriate or not.
I agree. Unless I missed something, all it says is "15 counts of Game and Wildlife Code violations" and for each individual "unlawful killing or taking of big game". Without more specifics we can only speculate as to what exactly they did wrong.
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:13 AM
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Default RE: Fines way too low

ORIGINAL: Sylvan

Not enough info to say if the fine was appropriate or not.
I agree. Unless I missed something, all it says is "15 counts of Game and Wildlife Code violations" and for each individual "unlawful killing or taking of big game". Without more specifics we can only speculate as to what exactly they did wrong.
I agree also.There should be different fines for situation each of its own. There's just not enough information to say if it was or wasn'tenough.I have alsoread that people do pay over 100,000 for trophy animals. I read an article about illegal poachers in all states selling game animals (especially deer) for an average of 50,000.
Many of them was during big game season so they could take the animal home and brag to their friends. These type of people that brag alot usually have the big bucks to buy an animal to back their stories up.

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Old 12-09-2006, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: Fines way too low

I agree. Unless I missed something, all it says is "15 counts of Game and Wildlife Code violations" and for each individual "unlawful killing or taking of big game". Without more specifics we can only speculate as to what exactly they did wrong
Of course you do! I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out they killed deer illegally. They broke laws. Ok lets just base it on what we do know.....

From the article:
A search of the area resulted in nine illegal deer being confiscated and five individuals being charged with 15 counts of Game and Wildlife Code violations. Their fines totaled $7,500, plus court costs. The individuals were taken into custody and arraigned before District Justice Lincoln Zilhaver and, after failing to post bond, were committed to the Crawford County Jail.
It looks to me that each confiscated deer amounted to a 500.00 charge. Why do so many hunters defend the actions of others who knowingly break game laws? To me a 500.00 fine for poaching a deer is too low. Not enough of a deterent.

"This was a case of individuals shooting whatever they pleased without regard to seasons or proper license and tagging requirements," WCO Piccirilli stated.
I have alsoread that people do pay over 100,000 for trophy animals. I read an article about illegal poachers in all states selling game animals (especially deer) for an average of 50,000.
Many of them was during big game season so they could take the animal home and brag to their friends. These type of people that brag alot usually have the big bucks to buy an animal to back their stories up.
I'd like to read that article.
Although I'm not buying the fact that these people would choose PA tohunt (poach)for TROPHY ANIMALS. lets look at what your saying. Do you expect me to believe that some guy is sitting around Crawford County Pa. waiting for his poacher to call with the goods? Come on you guys are reaching on this and going to try to defend law breakers? I can hear the conversation now. " Hey Joe! ...Yeah! It's me poacher Jim!...What do you got for me?... Hey I bagged a nice 10 point with a 20 inch spread... Awesome! How Much?... I'll have to have 50,000 dollars for it...Ok no problem...OH yeah Joe!.... Yes?... That will be cash only... OK no problem I have it in my glove compartent.... OK see ya tonight...


Sorry guys I just don't see much of that going on with "PA TROPHIES"

Regardless in my opinion 500.00 for illegally killing a deer isn't enough.
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