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Fines way too low

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Fines way too low

Old 12-09-2006, 06:35 PM
  #11  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Fines way too low

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out they killed deer illegally. They broke laws.
Well that couldn't be more obvious! The article says that much and as plane as day. We all know that but we also know there is nothing illegal about killing a deer as long as it's done in a manner consistent with law so there was something these guys did or maybe didn't do that made their kills illegal. What was it? We don't know. What were the specific violations? We don't know. Did they have a license? Were they taken out of season? Did they use an illegal weapon? Did they have the right tags? Were they shot after hours? Are they guilty of one of these? All of these? We don't know, we don't know, we don't know. All we know is that they took the deer illegally. We don't know why it was illegal and without that information I couldn't pass reasonable judgement as to how appropriate the fine was. Like I said, the specifics matter!
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:10 PM
  #12  
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Default RE: Fines way too low

I understand what your saying Sylvan, but in any of your questions above is 500.00 per deer reasonable to you? Maybe I'm just carrying on about this because you can get a 500.00 fine for throwing a cookie wrapper on the ground, and illegally killing whitetails is a little more important a subject to me. Not that I think littering is OK. Far from.
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:28 AM
  #13  
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Default RE: Fines way too low

ORIGINAL: TRYKONOISSEUR

I understand what your saying Sylvan, but in any of your questions above is 500.00 per deer reasonable to you? Maybe I'm just carrying on about this because you can get a 500.00 fine for throwing a cookie wrapper on the ground, and illegally killing whitetails is a little more important a subject to me. Not that I think littering is OK. Far from.
I would still want more details even if I knew what the specific violation was (which we don't). But because you asked and it's just specultaion, let's take one. Shooting the deer after legal hours. O.K. was it just a minute or two aftersunset or before sunrise, something that's done ALL the time, orwas thehuntersystematically hunting in the wee hours by moonlight in blatant disregard of the law. IMO, in the former 500 is way too much and the latter, way too little.

How about another. Not having the right tag. Was it a violation because the hunter shot a doe and didn't even possess a doe tag (again a blatant disregard for the law) or was it because he thought the spikes were 3" long making it a legal buck but it turns out the longest was only 2 7/8" which technically would require a doe tag. Again imo it matters. In one example the 500 is too little, the other too much.

I'm sure anybody with a little imagination can think of many examples where the circumstances arounda violation would make a big diferrence in the severity ofa reasonablepunishment. But the article gives us no circumstances, no details, it just tells us that they broke the law. What should the fine be for breaking the law?
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:28 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: Fines way too low

Pulllllllleeeeeeaase! 15 Counts !!! What do you have to know? These guys are mutts. I can't say about monetary damage these $cum should pay , the ability to pay has to enter into it at some point.
These are not someone that has a family that is having a hard time to make ends meet and need to put food on the table! These a $cumbags plain and simple. IMHO poachers like these should have had thier firearms and vehicles confiscated and thier right to bear arms revoked. Hunting privledges revoked for the entire U.S. also. These guys are CRIMINALS ,lets stop trying to make excuses and rationalize thier behavior. They should be treated like any other thug that steals. They are stealing from all other law abiding people and even worst asting all other hunters in a bad light.
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:43 AM
  #15  
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Default RE: Fines way too low

I can't say about monetary damage...
Well that was the question and the whole point of the thread. I responded to it, you didn't. You're just ranting.

They should be treated like any other thug that steals.
I agree and the way we treat a thief is to considerall the evidence associated with what they did and punish them accordingly. We don't and shouldn'tpunish a shop lifter the same as we do an armed bank robber.We don't say these2 people stole so they are both going to jail for 20 years. The way they commited the act ofstealing matters to a reasonable person. A reasonable person would want to know all the facts and then determine a punishment accordingly.

Look, I agree these guys are low lifes. The question is, how low are they? Without more information, Icouldn't put a $ value on it.
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Old 12-10-2006, 08:31 AM
  #16  
 
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Default RE: Fines way too low

ORIGINAL:I would still want more details even if I knew what the specific violation was (which we don't). But because you asked and it's just specultaion, let's take one. Shooting the deer after legal hours. O.K. was it just a minute or two aftersunset or before sunrise, something that's done ALL the time, orwas thehuntersystematically hunting in the wee hours by moonlight in blatant disregard of the law. IMO, in the former 500 is way too much and the latter, way too little.

How about another. Not having the right tag. Was it a violation because the hunter shot a doe and didn't even possess a doe tag (again a blatant disregard for the law) or was it because he thought the spikes were 3" long making it a legal buck but it turns out the longest was only 2 7/8" which technically would require a doe tag. Again imo it matters. In one example the 500 is too little, the other too much.

I'm sure anybody with a little imagination can think of many examples where the circumstances arounda violation would make a big diferrence in the severity ofa reasonablepunishment. But the article gives us no circumstances, no details, it just tells us that they broke the law. What should the fine be for breaking the law?
Good point Sylvan in your explaination, your right we need more info. However, with the info we do have, to receive "only" a $1500.00 fine per an hunter as you explain, may be because all 5 "non-resident" hunters shot the 9 deers 1 minute after shooting hours, "out of season" and that they could not determine the size of the antlers on these deers (well because it was after hours by a minute and too dark for them to identify, in which any good upstanding hunter would not have fired, JIMO)and forgot to properly tag them also seems a strech as well.

For a hunter, not to mention 5 hunters,to violate all these laws in one outing should be fined alot more in my opinion and have any hunting licenses revoked for life. Not to mention that their rifles, gear, vehicles should have been confiscated as well, if they didn't, just like they do with indivuduals that have possession of illegal narcotics.

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Old 12-10-2006, 08:31 AM
  #17  
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Default RE: Fines way too low

Shooting the deer after legal hours. O.K. was it just a minute or two aftersunset or before sunrise, something that's done ALL the time, orwas thehuntersystematically hunting in the wee hours by moonlight in blatant disregard of the law. IMO, in the former 500 is way too much and the latter, way too little.
Your splitting hairs! You don't honestly beleive that all 5 of these guys shot 2 deer each a little after shooting hours. Come on Sylvan your alot smarter than that.


How about another. Not having the right tag. Was it a violation because the hunter shot a doe and didn't even possess a doe tag (again a blatant disregard for the law) or was it because he thought the spikes were 3" long making it a legal buck but it turns out the longest was only 2 7/8" which technically would require a doe tag. Again imo it matters. In one example the 500 is too little, the other too much.
Not having the right tag is a serious violation asfar asI'm concerned. 500.00 too little. And the 3 inch rule in Pa has been dead since 2000 or 2001 Must have 3 points to on side or in some other areas 4 points to a side.

What should the fine be for breaking the law?
Enough to ensure people never do it again or never try it in the first place.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:25 AM
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Default RE: Fines way too low

ORIGINAL: Ruddyduck

IMHO poachers like these should have had thier firearms and vehicles confiscated and thier right to bear arms revoked. Hunting privledges revoked for the entire U.S. also. These guys are CRIMINALS ,lets stop trying to make excuses and rationalize thier behavior.
You sound like peta. These are animals. Not people. Next thing you know people will be put in jail for this. This is what hits a nerve on me. People treating animals as though they have more rights than humans. Pathetic at the least. Let me look for a membership sight forpeta and you can sign up with them. Just ridiculous. Taking away the second ammend for an animal violation. Are you sure your an American? Talk about rational. Your pathetic and anyone else who thinks their arms should be confiscated for killing animals. Pathetic excuse for an American at the least. Taking their arms. I am sure they couldn't get another one. What a joke.
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:08 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: Fines way too low

Your splitting hairs! You don't honestly beleive that all 5 of these guys shot 2 deer each a little after shooting hours. Come on Sylvan your alot smarter than that.
I gavesome examples of how the same violation can warrant different penalties. Of course I don't believe all 5 of these guys did this.I have no clue as to what exactly they did. Neither does anybody else. That's the point. Comon TRYKONOISSEUR you're smarter than that!
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:19 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: Fines way too low

Not having the right tag is a serious violation asfar asI'm concerned. 500.00 too little. And the 3 inch rule in Pa has been dead since 2000 or 2001 Must have 3 points to on side or in some other areas 4 points to a side.
3" or3 or 4 points on a side is irrelevant. My example was to compare the guy who knowingly shoots a doe without a doe tag which is a blatant violation vs. the guy who thinks he shot a legal buck but it turns out it wasn't quite legal. Both are cases of killing a deer without the proper tag but I can't believe any reasonble person would say the fine should be the same for both.

Do you really think somebody should be fined $500 for shooting a 5 point?What ifit had 6 but the 6th point was only 7/8" making it legally a 5 point. Again $500. For heavens sake man why not just execute him? I'd say $50 tops!

What the heck would you do with the guy who shoots a single doe without a tag. Torture him to death?
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