Changing Deer Season Months
 

In another post some of us got into a discussion over the Pa doe kill. I know it has been beaten to death, but I had to address this one statement.

One doe tag would be OK with me...BUT I think DMAP tags are still needed in some agricultural areas. Besides it also helps to open up some farms that normaly would be posted. I have a concern about moving the Doe season to October because the button buck fawns will not be dispersed by the mother if she is harvested too early and would lead to inbreeding. The mature does need time to chase off the young bucks first. I could agree to going back to a separate doe season but make it in December as it was and make it 3 to 5 days instaed of 2 weeks. Anyone else have any thoughts?

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

Maps are definately necessary, some areas more than others need doe reductions, others need to be closed for doe but hunters as whole would whine, whine, whine. AR's are still important or the orange army would pull the trigger on the first deer they see, brown it's down would be in full force. An early Oct season would be okay but I hate adding anything more to the archery season intrusion on archery season. Inbreeding wouldn't happen, nature usually regulates that.

What I feel would stop button buck slaughters is forcing hunters to use their buck tag if they shoot a button buck. Treat the gender as it is, a buck or a doe, you get one tag for each, period.

I cannot fathom mistakingly killing a button buck as a doe, it's just too easy to tell them apart and if you intentionally shoot a button, tag with your buck tag and be happy about it. ....

I could live with that rule, how about you?

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from what i am hearing, most got their doe and fawns in early muzzleloader season..this should be stopped..i saw many small deer shot this year in oct..its all about meat..

doe permits need to be stopped in wmu 2g..

go back to 2 week of buck with AR..

3 day of doe after that..

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What I feel would stop the doe slaughter is forcing hunters to use there buck tag on a BB. How many doe do you think would be harvested the first day of the concurrent season under those conditions?Saving BB and shooting adult doe only delays the decrease in the buck harvest by 1 year. HR is responsible for the decrease in 1.5 buck and shooting BB is always going to be a part of HR.

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I think PGC should greatly reduce the number of doe tags sold. If there are "problem" areas with high densities of doe, I think they should be handled as "green tag" areas, where within certain boundries you can apply for a extra doe tag, or possibly use your buck tag on a doe (areas would need to be clearly marked).
I also think they need to reduce the season length. I think they should have doe season run monday or wednesdayto saturday of the last week of buck season.
As I see it there are two main options for the PGC. Either leave things as they are and watch the numbers of liscense sales decrease year after year, and along with it much of thier funding. Or they could cut back on the doe harvest for afewyears (and listen to all the "Hunters" whine, whine, *itch and complain). Or they could impose some major changes, such as virtually stop doe season for a couple years, or change the liscense to come with a buck tag, that changes to a deer (buck or doe) tag for the last 3 days of the regularseason and late achery and muzzeloader. But again this would make many people scream, cry, and throw a real tantrum.
There is no fix that will make everyone happy. But going at the current rate and direction in just a few years no-one will be happy, with virtually no deer to hunt, and virtually no liscense salesfor funding. I personally will have a hard time justifying $160.00 on a hunting liscense to see no deer. I already hunt NY, and I think if PA does not change what it is doing I'll go to Ohio instead.
Hunting is a great heritage that we as a group need to pass on. But it will be very difficult to keep a kid interested if whe take one hunting you don't see any game. But thats just my thoguhts..

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ive said this a couple times before... why not make doe season the last week of deer season.. there will still be alot killed, but wayy less than if it was instituted during the first week of deer season. that is when the majority of them are shot.

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I def agree on that BB should be tagged with buck tags. This would force people to take a good hard look at a deer before shooting it. People will learn quickly that if they have to use their buck tag. I don't know how, but down here in VA, we are allowed to take 3 buck and 3 doe on one license or 6 doe!!??? There are no AR restrictions down here and there are plenty of deer.....I guess not as many people hunt??? This year for rifle season, I gave up hunting up north because of lack of deer/quality deer. My dad sat in my stand and had a barely legal 6 come by in the morning and he passed. In the evening, he had a nice 8 point with a 20.5 inch spread come by and he dropped it. He said it was with 2 does. Still, 4 deer for a days worth of sitting isn't worth it to me....

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It is the hunters in Pa. My friend did drives all day the first friday in washington co. he found 7 dead bucks that did not have the required 4 pts. on one side and we want these people to look for buttons.How do you change people that are that blood hungry,I just don't know.The hunters around here will kill the last doe in the woods to say they got one ,then complain about the lack of deer.

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I agree with Sproulman, no does in 2G at least for a couple of years...

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only diffference from what i see here in clinton county is, most will take that 4 point home,never leave it in woods..i agree on blood hunters, i am seeing disgusting people in woods now..read my post on a example..

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There in lies the problem, it's slob hunters. It's education, not legislation. The orange army doesn't police itself, how will it ever get better and yet Alt was the problem.

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To many damn seaons all so. I don't agree with use buck tags for bbs.How ya figure that will help?last couple days no buck,got doe tags,brown it's down.BB down,Tag with buck tag and shoot a doe with your doe tag.Instead of useing your single doe tag on that bb.Two deer down with one buck tag and one doe tag. The one being a BB.

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

So what's the difference if you shoot 2 button bucks with your 2 doe tags and then kill a buck. Making a hunter use his buck tag for a button buck would make the hunter a little more educated and to be able to recognize a BB from a doe. It would be like a minor punishment for a mistake kill by having to forfeit your buck tag. I'd like the whole thing to be reworked. Only one deer of either sex per hunter would work for me. Or make the general license tag a buck or doe tag instead of buck only and cut the management unit tags in half.

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You can't tell a BB at 100yrds unless they are spawling with other deer.I was on the assumption that there would only be 1 doe tag and no bonus.You get the meat hunters out there,They drop a BB thinking it was a doe,Buck tag on and they still got there doe tag to fill.
Now for your genral tag.Now every single hunter has a doe tag.How many millions of lisense been sold each year?Everyone has a tag to kill a doe,Plus you still want to cut the WMU tags in half.Thats still 425k+ in doe tags.Thank you,you just managed to put the deer on the endangered species list in Pennsylvania in one season.You should work for the PGC to help them accomplish their goal of eliminating deer.

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

You sure can! A mature doe has a long nose. Fawns six to seven months old have a shorter muzzle and less muscle definition. Alot of times the bumps or buttons are visable if you don't shoot first look later.

Not 100% sure how many were sold, but I heard a news reporter say around 900,000 hunters took to the woods first day. So no it isn't millions. I know a few years back the numbers were about 1.1 million in Pa but still not millions. Also not EVERY hunter would kill more than 1 deer a year. Whether they shoot them for loved ones or not.



I think you are doing that quicker than me. Remember you kill whatever walks by. You killed 2 does oH no thats 2 button bucks thisyear. And yet you complain there's nodeer.

I think your managing just fine Thank You! Why do you blame the PGC? OH thats right you Can't be responsible just because they hand out so many tags. Ever hear of self control?

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Rob this is something I learned from a prominent deer man. Charles Alsheimer mentioned that the does need to chase the small bucks from the area before the breeding season come full swing. The does are natures way of eliminating the inbreeding. But he could be wrong I guess

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No,if you remember correctly I said that, I don't shoot what ever I want.If I did,I would of took a mature doe,Instead, I took twoBBs that had no affect on the deer(doe)population.Them two mature does are still around up where I hunt.I kicked them out for my daughter along with a few other deer but they didn't give her an oppurtunity to take a shot.Maybe tomorro thoughthey will get a chance.The 125 acre I hunt might have 5 to 7deer left on it.I would like to get it down to 3 deer.Guess what though.Next year it's goanna have a couple decent bucks on it.Can you figure out how this would be possible?

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

And your complaing about the PGC managment abilities?


Hmmm... Maybe they will come in from another neighbors property. Or the 3 does you leave alive could have bunch of decent button bucks.

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

Everyone who gets a license should be able to take either? This would hurt the population of deer really fast. If they had the season before the mating came in would help some. The deer then wouldn't be stressed by hunters.This would be right on the edge of them shedding the velvet though. Another method that was tried and true,Is go back to 3 days of doe after buck season. I would have only 1 week of rifle season for buckand 2 weeks of archery and muzzle loader the same time though.This would increase the deer herd along with produce more bucks and larger bucks. I think the archers would throw a hissy fit about this though. Even allow to hunt on sundays for this idea.

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you've got to be kidding me right? I can tell a fawn with my naked eye at 100 yards, with todays optics, especially scopes, it's a lock.

I wouldn't shoot the fawn so......

There is a huge difference between a doe and a fawn. Do you need links to see the difference?

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

You can tell the difference between two fawns one being a doe and the other a button at 100yrds just by looking at them? Who said anything about comparing them to an adult doe?I didn't. Who the hell hunts deer in Pa.with a larger than a 2.5 to 10 scope or lugs around heavy glass?Or how many people spend 1000$for these things.Maybe 5% of the hunters.You can't tell just by looking at them.I will call anyone a liar on that if they use reg normequipment.

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Could you explain this a little more?

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i agree with you..same with cub bears..OH I THOUGHT IT WEIGHTED 500 PDS,OH IT WAS ONLY 39..

hunters that shoot small deer are disgusting to me..i even saw a editor of outdoor newspaper with his picture in paper with a 6 month old fawn..

it comes down to this, i asked most i saw why they shoot a FAWN.. here was their answer..

it was only deer i saw and i want my meat formoney for my license..

they taste better..

it looked BIGGER RUNNING through woods,yes RUNNING..

too many deer, we need to kill them..

i am not horn hunter ,i am MEAT hunter..

i could go on..

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I carry 10X50 Bruntons, I use binos, I don't scope things I'm unsure of, and YES I CAN TELL THE difference between a button head and a doe fawn at 100 yards, sometimes further, first rule of shooting, identify your target.

Like I said I wouldn't shoot a fawn anyway but don't begrudge those that do, just identify your target first.

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i will begrudge them,anyone that shoots fawn is disgusting..

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Opinions are a dime a dozen.
The young tenderloins taiste good anyway.What's the difference between a fawn and a mature deer,Other than the mature deer can have off springs and the fawns most likely cant and taiste better? I might be disgusting to some,But I am eating some good venisonfor sure.It's a freakin animal.I think alot of people should join peta on here.Whats next,Protest veal?Hunters against killing animals of certain age when it is legal.To freakin funny.

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Yes it is, and yet you complain the PGC isn't hanlding their responsibilities correctly. But your eating tasty little fawns. I guess you have no reson to complain about deer numbers then do you! Your freezer is full. I think the name "Brown It's Down" is available if you'd like to change yours. NOW that's freakin funny:D

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i was able to get to the clubtoday..stories i heard are terrible..

hunters i knew all my life and thought they were great sportsmen,disappointed me..

they shot fawns, most were button bucks..

they seemed to be proud about it..can you believe day has come now that you go to club for beer and friends and they talk about DECKING A BIG FAWN BUTTON BUCK..

what the hell world are we turning into?

it seems that most have to get that meat to pay for that license,no matter if its fawn ..

like i said, i never thought i would see day that hunters would shoot a fawn or mother and whole family of doe and fawns..

i know there are hunters that hate what they see too and pass on doe/fawn..i know a hunter that passed on a 400 pd mother bear and her cubs..

i had gang say to me, they are my friends, they said,SPROUL, WE DROVE ALL OF THE DRY RUN AREA AND ONLY SAW AND GOT 1 DOE..there is no deer out there..

there you have it, what kind of hunters would go into their hunting area and kill off the LAST doe that was in there..

they did..then they wonder why no deer..they said,WELL, IF I DONT KILL THE DEER,SOMEONE ELSE WILL..

no words from me can explain that comment better..



there you have

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

The real reason we shoot animals,Sit down there sproulman,We enjoy the kill.It's in a hunters blood to kill animals.It is fun to do.If anyone here disagrees with me,Your a lier.It's about the kill.And we find enjoyment from it.If we didn't,We wouldn't be hunting in the first place and we would be buying dear mounts off ebay.It's greed as you said.Your friend is correct,If he didn't shoot it,Someone else would of.If I seen only one deer on a deer drive.I am shooting it cause it is legal and fun to kill animals.Many on here understand what I am saying about it being fun.It's the rush of pulling the trigger and watching that animal hit the ground.Adrenilin junkies is what you can call us.It is the ultimate ride that is a blast every time you kill an animal.Now you can face the truth or deny it.It is fun to do.I would say everyone gets even a tad bit of a rush shooting at a squirrel all so.I am sure next time anyone shoots a squirrel,Think about it before you squeeze the trigger.The rush will be there. We sugar coat it to look different than what it really is.Now,If you feel sorry for a cub or a fawn,I will ask you what the he!! are you hunting for?You sure don't feel sorry for the mature ones now do you?These will grow up to be the same animals that you are killing when they get older.Now can you and anyone else on here handle the truth I just showed you.

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

I think what is getting lost in this debate is the impact on hunters. When I was younger I hated the three day doe season because I could never get out of school or get off from work. My first “real” job, I had two weeks of vacation, by the time deer season rolled along I was lucky if I had 3 days left. Today, I work for myself so it doesn’t affect me as much but I think it really punishes young hunters. I like the two week season but I also think the doe allocations need to be re-visited and adjusted accordingly. I’m all for proper deer management but there have to be some considerations made for the hunters as well.

RE: Changing Deer Season Months
 

lead poisoner aka Brown its Down.

Your last post is the most pathetic response I've ever read from a so-called hunter. Listen if you hunting abilities are limited to only be able to kill baby deer then just say so. Posts the the last one you wrote is part of the reason hunters have a hard time with PETA and other anti hunting groups. Because so-called hunters will post crap like that. Kill...Kill...Kill your a sick individual.

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You trying to please peta?I am not in the least.This is unsugar coated .You can substitute kill with harvest if you want.Same meaning.Go ahead and cater to peta.Bow down before them and sugar coat it all you want.I will do no such thing that was inherited to me.If you or peta don't like it,You all can just.Well you know how to fill in the blanks.It's the same as showing pictures of dead animals.In reality what happen to them.They was killed.I will keep on killing them and butchering them as needed with the proper tags.And you can keep on sugar coating to apease the minority against hunters.Everyone wants everything thatthey think they are doingwrong to be sugar coated so they don't look bad to others.Do you think they care how you coat it?They are still against you an allways will be.I think some people are afraid of what they are actually doing and trying to hide it by useing different words.In reallity it's still the same.Deal with what we really do and enjoy the most when we hunt.You know the word,Don't be afraid of it now.

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Nice Spin! I'm not trying to please anyone. I owe you or anyone else zip zilch nada. I'm just trying to understand why someone would want to kill baby deer over mature ones. Like I said maybe the adults out smart you.
And before you accuse me of killing Does with fawns in their bellies like the same old song and dance you use in your other posts to explain away your ignorance. Remember you killed how many deer this year? I elected to let them walk. I can't in good conscience post about low deer numbers while out shooting everything that moves. Maybe I'm lucky enough to have killed some good sized deer in my life and I'm content to let some walk now. And as far as your saying people kill deer only because its fun is assinine. I thank God everytime I kill a deer and it is about the memories with friends and family for more hunters, NOT THE FUN OF THE KILL as you put it.Far from, for some it is a spiritual type of thing.

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You just said about what peta thought about you and other hunters on your post on here.You have to waite till deer season to make memories of friends and family.Then why do you hunt?You wanna kill something don't ya?Come on you can tell the truth.You know you can save money and just go sit in the woods during deer season and hunt with a camera if you don'twant towhack an animal forfun.So your saying it's not fun to kill an animal?What are you saying there?Why do you kill animals if it's not fun?It's not for the food.You got grocery stores everywhere and prob a friend who would give you venison if you want some.What is your reason to kill an animal if it isn't the rush you get from it?Rush =enjoyment =fun.

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Ok let me type real slow for you..... In my post that included the word PETA I was also telling you that these types of posts is what gives them the energy and resolve to continue to push for anti hunting laws. There was that spelled out enough for ya? I know your a bit slow but geeze.

Memories created in the field yes . Doing something that we enjoy in nature. Are you that thick? Or just so bent on killing something you've lost sight of things. I feel sorry for your kids being taught your lessons on the outdoors.

Personnally I think your a waste of time and I'll no longer respond to your idiotic posts. I think that's what your getting the most kick out of. Anyway your sentences and spelling are way to difficult to keep up with. I have to read everything 2 or 3 times to even try to make heads or tails of what you're ranting about. So Mr. Button Buck Master. Have a Wonderful Merry Christmas and a Great New Year.

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PETA, I still stand corrected... You are afraid of what they think of you and hunters to be this concerned about comments...

You still haven't answered my quesion about why you kill deer..

And I believe you put that clausein thereto not answer my question,Cause you can't think of no other reason than it is fun to do.


I stand corrected again.

For my kids,At least they can face reallity for what it is without sugar coating everything that some people think are bad in this world. It's fun to kill a deer and to share memories of that hunt.There is nothing wrong with that.And they understand it.They all so understand,That it is not fun to kill in a time of war or for protection against others when in harms way.But it has to be done sometimes.They understand the difference between these types.But we still do the whole hunt for enjoyment.That includes the pull of the trigger.