NY hunters question
 

for 3C & 3J:
howare the deer looking this year. I know it has only been one year but I havn'tseen anything yet about deer sightings.

Also a question for all NY hunters would you rather have a
1 buck/year
AR 3pts/side or
leave everything alone

RE: NY hunters question
 

I'r prefer ARs

RE: NY hunters question
 

Until someone can show me how it makes sense to target the 60% of the YOUNG 1 1/2 year old bucks having 3 per side, I will have to say leave alone or 1 buck where pop is lower.

Steve

RE: NY hunters question
 

I like the antler restrictions. I hunt a zone in NJ which has had them for years, and I see mature bucks that show true rutting characteristics. In 20 years of hunting NY, I have never seen that. Almost every buck is tiny in the south-eastern part of the state and if one survives 2 1/2years, you have the local "monster" on your hands! Its sad because there is a lot of good deer land in that region.

Rattling, grunting, and scents work great in the zone I hunt in Jersey because there are enough mature bucks to encite competition during the rut. In the 3 zones in NY, you are lucky to see one buck a year, on opening day, with 3" spikes. Usually you'll find some jackasses celebrating over that in the hotel parking lot.

RE: NY hunters question
 

They have their nerve shooting a legal animal that they enjoyed hunting and not helping making it easy forthe trophy hunter to bag his bragging rights.

AR equals trophy mangement - and each area is unique to its needs.

Steve

RE: NY hunters question
 

It's just a shame to watch, when all you have to do is pop over the border to NJ and go after an animal which is older and wiser, meaning harder to harvest, and much more of a prize when you do, both mentally and in physical appearance.

RE: NY hunters question
 

I've never really had a big stance on the whole AR thing. But, to me, I'd just assume leave things as is. We can weait and see how it works in the test areas. And like Steve says, I am not sure the 3 pt/side is the way to go either (maybe spread or more points on both sides). As far as I am concerned, I am just as happy with things as is. I have no problem shooting a spike, 5 pt, 8 pt, or a wallhanger. I just like to hunt, shoot, and eat deer.

As far as the one buck thing, that is another story. I think that idea is absolutely ridiculous. I buy my lisences to hunt deer. My tags entitle me to take 2 buck. Who is anybody to tell me that I can only take one? (more than likely they are hunters that only hunt with a rifle/shotgun)And in the big sceem of things, what does it really matter. Bucks have "nothing"to do with herd management. Doe are the key to controling deer numbers and buck/doe ratios. I hear a lot of people say they don't/won't shoot doe, but will take as many buck that come along (groups of hunters). Then they complain that they have small deer with small racks - because there are too many deer. Oh, and by the way, in 17 years of hunting, I have taken 2 buck all of2-3 times, but I am more than happy to buy thetags for the opportunity to take 2 buck(and 1 or more doe) if I am so lucky.

my 2 1/2 cents

RE: NY hunters question
 

If you think about it, it's not another story. It's the same principle, premise, etc.

Who is anybody to tell you that you can'tharvest that spike, fork, or 10 pointer? I valued the 5 point buck I shot last season with my bow just as much as the very first deer I ever bagged (my biggest buck to date).

A/R is a two-fold question on biology, and hunter ethics/sport tradition. I spent many, many hours researching AR. There's legit basis points on each side. Personally, I hit a roadblock at the ethics. Who am I to say to any other hunter that they can't or shouldn't harvest a nice forkhorn (or any other deer for that matter). All I know is that I'm not above anyone else to play GOD, and shame them for an experience they value.

RE: NY hunters question
 

I understand your personal opinion. There is no question to that.

However, there are just as many people who value EVERY deer they take regardless of size, age, status. Just because, an older/wiser buck is out in my woods, and I come across a smaller buck that presents an opportunity for me to be successful...does that mean I value that smaller buck less?

Simple answer: No.

You seem to bash NY a ton. Is NJ the next Texas? Why don't you stay in NJ and hunt then, if it is so good? (actual honest question).

NY has plenty of great hunting. In fact, several areas are well-known to be some of the best whitetail destinations in the entire country for P&Y and B&C monsters. Why you make it seem like NY is a wasteland in regards to deer hunting is a mystery to me.

Quaker Boy, Whitetail Institute, Mossy Oak Biologic, North Country Whitetails, QDMA, Charles Alsheimer's famed deer enclosure....what do they have in common?

Answer: Deer hunting....and NY.

RE: NY hunters question
 

3C and 3J suffered the expected big decline in antlered deer harvests last season. The DEC expects a slight recovery this year, but it is not likely they will return to numbers prior to the AR implementation. After this season, the DEC is hopeful harvest numbers will be similar to pre-AR.

Essentially, this version of AR is on a 3-year track.

RE: NY hunters question
 

I could agree with AR but if my wife or sons want to take thier first deer and it`s a spike or fork I wouldn`t be able to tell them no don`t shoot.

RE: NY hunters question
 

And you seem to go out of your way to bash me a lot. I always expect you to chime in whenever I post my opinion here.

How am I bashing NY? I live in NY, have done the vast majority of my hunting in NY, owned hunting land in NY, am sworn to protect NY, the list goes on. Pointing out the obvious lack of effective deer managment, at least until recently, is not bashing NY. While the Western tier of NY seems to be popular with hunters, and Long Island is a consistent producer, the adirondacks are mostly dried up, and the south-east is WAY over hunted. Being someone who mostly hunts public land, shoot me if I gravitate to a state where public land hunting is much more productive than NY's. Not to mention that there are people who see NJ as "the next texas" sort of state to be honest.

YEARS of extensive quality management have produced a healthy deer herd with a proper age structure. Ny has not done that at all.Year after year I see mostly spikes being taken from the zones I hunt in NY, and last year I hunted 6 seperate zones on multiple occasions. While of coruse that does not mean that people aren't taking trophy bucks there, but it is a lot of time spent out to not see even one. Not to mention too much time spent on boards like this without seeing one post about a large NY buck anytime recently.

I personally feel that NY needs some sort of improvement, and I would love to see it so that I can enjoy my hunting here more. I see bigger bucks on Staten Island than in the Catskills, and that's the truth! Right now, I feel that A/R is the way to go. Could I be wrong? Of course, but I see this workign in other places, so why not here? Until someone shows me the benefits of cleaning the woods out of its 1 1/2 year old bucks every year, I will keep the same opinion.

RE: NY hunters question
 

That is EXACTLY what 3pt AR would do to most of NY!!
Studies by CNY Whitetails( the group in CNY that wanted ridiculus restrictions in 7j, 7h and 7m(?), showed that better then 60% of the NY 1 1/2 old bucks are 6 point or better!

Again I ask: Howcould targeting the best of the year 1/2 class while protectingthe spike and forks be good for anything other than trophy hunters in search of that elusive 6 point? All true hunters know that a 1 1/2 6 point or greater is a FAR greater trophy then a spike or fork of the same age or size.;)

Want to hunt MATURE bucks - simple - let the YOUNG ones walk. Teach and educate others of the benefits of TRUE QDM - and forget the half baked attempts at mandatory TROPHY management.

Phade - good to see you back - good luck this weekend!

Steve

RE: NY hunters question
 

If you mean judging bucks'ages based on their necks,faces,and backs, you have a pipe dream going. VERY FEW hunters put in the time or effort to learn enough about whitetails to be able to do that with any sort of accuracy. On private land, that works great: cull the older bucks with inferior genetics and occasionally take a real trophy, while letting the younger ones with potential grow. We all know that most hunters are casual "sportsmen" who go out once, MAYBE twice a year with their budies and drink much more than spend time in the woods. At least an antler restriction would cause some sort of easily recognizeable destinction over what can be shot and what can't.

I base my opinions on public land hunting, wheremost people I see in the woods have no idea about true huntingand could careless about any sort of managment.Dream bucks to them will always be dream bucks!

And it's not like this is some radical movement... A/R has worked in NJ for sure, and there are many who feeel it has worked in PA.

RE: NY hunters question
 

PS.. you proved my point: the elusive 6 point? Where is a 6 pointer even close to a trophy? They are certainly elusive in NY, but definately not a trophy.

RE: NY hunters question
 

Easy to make a broad bush generalization based on myths and half truths. Let me try one. "And we know all cops sit in the donut shop all day." :D Pretty silly isn't it?

And even if most hunters are casual, what gives the "true" sportsman such as yourself the right to dictate their hunt


Thought sarcasm could be understood.
Elusive? Hardly - see my post on CNY - OVER 60% OF THE1 1/2 OLD BUCKSCNY are 6 POINT OR BETTER!!!!!

And if you put in 3 point AR they become a trophy!!! The goal of mandatory AR.

Still waiting to hear how targeting and killing all the 60% plus of the 1 1/2 old bucks with3 point or better will be good.

No good bucks in NY? Where do all the photos come from every 2 weeks in NY Outdoor News? Some outstanding photos and many from that darned public land. http://www.nyoutdoornews.com/

Guess that would depend on who you talk to and what your definition of "works" is. I talk to hunters every week in Pa who are disgusted with their management plan and their liscence sales took another drop this year.

Steve

RE: NY hunters question
 

I'm not trying to dictate anyone's hunt. They can do what they want. I personally would like to see A/R implemented though. Andapparently, other than on this board, it is not just me since we already have it in some zones, which magically are the ones that are most over-hunted and the ones I am talking about where all I see taken are spikes.

Sorry that I missed your sarcasm, but I also never heard that 60% of buck's at 1 1/2 years are 6 pointers. That is definately not true where I hunt, so sorry for basing my opinion on my experience. I cannot quote numbers here, but I will quit hunting in NY if someone can show me that zone 3's numbers are similiar to that! I bet it is not even close.

As for PA, just from reading this forum I see that PA is a messed up state as far as hunting foes. They are always fighting about something. I know what my uncle says though, and where he hunts, he loves the A/R rule and has seen less deer, but bigger bucks, which is exactly what A/R would do ideally. I don't follow PA hunting enough tospeak any deeper than that on the subject.

RE: NY hunters question
 

Just to let you know I'm not bashing you. It was an attempt at an honest question or two.

Steve is quoting biological evidence that is supported by the DEC, and many biologists in NY. The 3 pt. per side rule IS NOT the way to go for state-wide management. That is a fact stated by the state's central deer biologist.

There's a good read in the August issue of NY Game and Fish on antler restrictions. Someone actually took the time and effort to look at it with a "middle of the road approach" that gives both sides. Like I said, it compiles good points for both, but it still remains that hunters are split on this issue. It's not a win-win situation as you promote it to be.

I'm curious about the bold statement.Can you point me to the evidenceyousourced(outside of personal observations, as that is more opinion-based, and not factual) showing that those zones are the ones most over-hunted? The reason the DEC implemented AR there is not because of overhunting...instead it is a biological attempt to get 80% of 1.5 yr. old bucks into the 2.5 yr. old age class. While you may think that is because it is overhunted, that is not the case. Those zoneswere on the level with the rest of the state as far as % harvests pre-AR. If they were overhunted....the DEC would reduce hunting opportunities (ie tags, season dates,DMPs, etc.).

Your underlined statement: What Steve mentioned is regarding statewide numbers. The relevance to Region 3 is that the3pt per side rule works at protecting roughly 80% of the 1.5 yr. old bucks. The problem with that is it doesn't work for several other parts of the state, including the parts of the Adirondacks, the southern tier, and WNY. In those areas, the 3 pt per side would do nothing by wipe out a large majority of 1.5 yr. olds that meet the requirement, creating more biological issues than benefits. The average 1.5 yr old in those areas carries 4-7 points, which may seem shocking, but is true.

You stated earlier that Region 3 is good deer land. While it may not be BAD land, it certainly is not great in overall condition. That's why the 3 pt per side rule is in effect versus a width criterion. What I'm trying to get at is, even WITHOUT hunting, the average 1.5 year old in the 3 WMU's under AR would still be below 5 points in antler size. The DEC did their research on this.

Nobody is saying you are full of crap, or anything of the like. Many people share your belief. However, there are just as many people who have the opposite view.

Why is it fair for you and your group to force what you want on those who don't want it?

RE: NY hunters question
 

Same to you. Looks like this weekend is going to a good practice holding on in the trees! 17-22 mph winds!

RE: NY hunters question
 

That right there is MY major point (although I disagree with the buddies/drinking stereotype, continuing to propagate that is bad).

Most hunters are recreational and only get out a handful of days with friends and family. Why limit their ability to harvest a deer that they would consider a trophyby implementingAR? That's not right, nor fair to them. You say you see guys high fiving each other over bagging a spike buck. I can't see how that is bad. The hunters are extremely happy with that experience.

My old man gets out once every year for one weekend of hunting NY from VA. He was in the Navy for 25 years. He's the definition ofa casual hunter. Who are you to tell my father that the forkhorn he busted in 2005while enjoying a stand during a deer drive with his son, his brother, two of his best old high school pals, and HIS dad that he shouldn't and can't do that? If he didn't harvest that buck, he'd be going on three years without filling a tag. He was absolutelty ELATED he had the opportunity to harvest a deer. It was the only one he had a chance to harvest all weekend, doe or buck.

If you had your way, my father would have been skunked. Don't ruin hunting by enforcing aspects of hunting that should be a private choice. You want to go fill out a trophy tag, that's fine. Go for it. Do some work, scout, get off the road, and hunt. They are out there. But don't go and make it seem like everyone has your same mindset. I'm not doing that to you, as I've stated many times before others share your view. But there are just as many who want to enjoy hunting in their own way.

AR, QDM, Trophy management, etc. should be a personal, and private property choice.

RE: NY hunters question
 

I live in Hurley near the Ashokan resovior and I have not seen 1 deer with horns this season. I drive to work at 5am through back woods roads on my way to the NYS thruway and all I ever see is does with fawns. I hiked my property and did not find a single rub for the second year in a row. I am beginning to wonder if there are even deer with the 3 point rule around this area?!?!?!

RE: NY hunters question
 

Salty..

There are deer there. It makes you feel bad and almost crazied to think that you will be hunting and hoping for a monster or anything to walk out for that matter and nothing will appear. But you must remember the deer that you would like to kill will not always be in a field or even crossing a road. It will be when your still hunting and the bow shoot is just to far away or gun season and there is heavy brush and you can't get the shoot. Never think there not there, for there is BIG BUCKS everywhere that we just don't see. Good luck this season.. and always remember you never KNOW !!

RE: NY hunters question
 

Interesting point, I've had less rub activity last year than normal, as well as very little to date this season.

RE: NY hunters question
 

Interesting disussion here. I am in total agreement with Phade here. Who should dictate to a hunter what sized buck they should be allowed to shoot? Besides, the job of the Department of Conservation and any state game agency is to manage the deer herd, which does NOT mean that they have to manage it for the trophy hunter. Hunters are given licenses to control the population of deer, and concern to how many points a buck has on his head should be of little importance. I have been surprised that anti-hunting groups haven't picked up on this and publicized the fact that a state like PA is currently managing their herd for trophy hunting. Now most non-hunters can accept hunters killing deer for the table, but MIGHTY few will accept killing deer for the sole purpose of acquiring a trophy. If and when they do bring this to the general publics attention, I assure you that state game agencies AND hunters will be on the losing end here!

RE: NY hunters question
 

Huntin Samsonville/Olive and the last two years have been real bad. Over here its a direct result of the gypsy moths. This year they were bad but last year they destroyed everything. Trees produced almost no acorns.
Last year only saw 5 does during rifle season, compared to twenty and thirty in a single day in previous seasons. Last year when hunting it was completely silent, to the point of being eerie. No turkeys, no squirrels, no chipmunks, simply silence. Basically no deer or wildlife to speak of and we usually have one ofeverything that lives in NY somewhere on theproperty(large tract bordering public lands).
Good news is that this year the moths were bad but they seem to be on the wane. Turkeys have been frequent visitors and even have a few squirells again. Grouse have been abundant and I have even seen two bucks in the daytime earlier in the year on the ATV's, a 3 or 4 pt and a 6pt while still in velvet. Normally only see them at night or while hunting. Been seeing lots of does and fawns so as far as I am concerned its alreadymuch better than last year. Hope it will be for the rest of you too.Going to start doing some QDM in the future to see if it helps hold the animals and provide better insurance in the future in case of another poor mast crop. Good luck.

RE: NY hunters question
 

Antler restriction should definately be decided by zone, and what is appropriate for that area. That is how the NJ system works, and its works great. I am not positive, but is PA statewide? If so, that would not work in NY. I guess I do generalize a little, because I mostly speak for one area, in wmu's in Zone 3.That is where I spend the majority of my time, although last year I huntedin zones 7 and 4. This year will be my first in Suffolk County. There must be something to A/R in Zone 3, because hunting groups there initiated this, and the DEC approved it.

As for "dictating" to other hunters. First off, as parts of PA are seeing, the downsides would only last a few years.After that,ideally, there would be bucks out there to shoot within the rules. Then EVERYONE would get shots at potential trophies. Coupled with increased doe permits, as proper QDM should be, there would be even more oppurtunitiesfor shots on deer. Also, in NJ, there are places where young and senior hunters do not have to follow the A/R rules. Is this the same in PA? We could have a similiar system here.

While I cannot go quoting "sources" for my over hunted claim, I know what I see. Hunting in the Adirondacks, and in the western tier, I never see as many hutners as in the Catskills. Every hotel is packed, there is traffic going out to the land, and there are trucks lined up once you get there. Bow season is not as bad, which leads me to believe that most hunters are opening weekend guys.

Anytime a new rule is passed, there will always be guys like your father Phade who get restricted unfortunately because of it. That applies to anything in life. It is a bi-product of majority rule. I am sure there are people in NJ who get pissed off with all their rules... multiple zones, with a myraid of regulations. NY historically has been a simple state to hunt in. A few extra rules might do us some good and improve the herd. If you research other states hunting rules, I believe you may agree with me. Our 4 week firearm season, without any off-days, is one of the longest in the country. There is no time for the deer to regroup, such as in Colorado's breaks between the 4 elk seasons. I base my opinions on extensive research into almost all 50 states hunting regulations and how they compare to NY's, and compared to most, ourshas basically been "buy a license, load a gun, and have fun".

I am pleased to see that they are changing that.

RE: NY hunters question
 

PS... one mroe thing. At least we don't have to deal with lotteries. Some people out west, in awesome hunting states, have to wiat 2-3 years to hutn where they want to and pay money to go out of state while they wait. We get to hunt, gauranteed, in EVERY OPEN SEASON, every year. Most states don't even have this.

RE: NY hunters question
 

" I never see as many hutners as in the Catskills. Every hotel is packed, there is traffic going out to the land, and there are trucks lined up once you get there."

Got to disagree with that. Things have been seriously changing. We don't get half the hunters we had 10 years ago during gun season. alot of the hardcore hunters switched to bow hunting, alot simply died of old age, and alot just don't go. Its a catch 22, with less hunters in the woods, the deer don't get pushed and merely circle back on the offending visitor. Without the fleeing deer alot of casual hunters will never see anything as they are not really hunting so much as picking a spot with a view and waiting tointercept pushed deer. After a while of not seeing anything they leave some of them giving up entirely. Don't know where you see the huge numbers of hunters but most hotels herehavelots of vacancies in season nowadays. Its because of this poor turnout they they switched the season from a monday start to a saturday starthoping the weekend will increase hunter turnout.
Regardless, don't see the point of this trophy stuff. If everybody can get a trophy then it aint a trophy anymore. So if everybody is shooting 6pointers that is somehow better than a spike? We all hunt the area and know the conditions we face and our understanding is reflected in what we consider a trophy animal. So what if it ain't P & Y or B&C, it was still just as satisfying.You get a nice heavy set 6-8 pointer or one of our spindly 10 pointers and you should be very proud of yourself. good luck to all.

RE: NY hunters question
 

leave everything alone.
way i look at it the average age of hunters is what in the mid to late 40's.
deer herd is large and healthy.
only problem is land is being hard to come by as far as hunting.
i don't see a lot of big deer where i hunt so a button buck or a 4 pointer is down as far as i'm concerned.
i'm a meat hunter.
i like the meat, especially on the young ones.

RE: NY hunters question
 

You can take doe for tasty meat, that's the way I look at it.

RE: NY hunters question
 

I believe there are several different ways to look at AR restrictons. I myself have not decided if its something I'm for or against. For 1 yes it'll bring out the trophy addicts if it works, and then you'll have even more problems with available hunting land. I've heard horror stories in Illinois over land rights, and trepassing. Its all Big $. I hate the whole Big $ trophy crap. It makes me sick how its become an huge industry, and I don't like the direction it taking our sport. I don't like some big name hunters who simply pay big bucks to harvest big deer to make a bigger name for themselves. Trophies is not what huntings all about.
On the other hand if managed properly it can be a added benefit to our herds health. Obviously more mature deer is a good thing. Its really kinda sad that most deer harvested in NYS only reach 1.5yrs old.
A better balanced mature deer herd can also make the hunting more interesting. The typical signs, and ways we hunt that are suppose to work can work better when things are balanced out.
I think DEC is approaching this in a good manner. They're not jumping on the band wagon, and doing test pilot areas first. I like that. See if it works for NYS, and what adjustments need to be made.

RE: NY hunters question
 

There are 4 units in the Catskills that now have antler restrictions. I know that in at least one of these units it was not very easy to draw a doe permit. So since many of the hunters in this unit can only take a buck 3 point to a side and larger and don't have a doe permit, exactly what are the odds that they will bring home a deer? Not very good if you ask me.

I also don't know where you are seeing all these hunters in the Catskills, but hunter numbers are WAY down in the last few years. I started hunting in the late 70's and there were scores of hunters out there. Today you barely see anyone. Many of the small sporting goods stores in the area have gone out of business because there are no hunters to keep them in business. Give it another few years and the state might as well give out licenses for free because nobody will be buying any!!

RE: NY hunters question
 

I would like AR's and a one buck limit.

RE: NY hunters question
 

Paragraph one:

Agree in that zone AR is best of any AR implementation, but that consitutes problems from it that divides sportsmen. We don't need that.

Paragraph two:

There were bucks out to shoot before AR in PA. There was no twist of fate where they disappeared for 225 years, and only reappeared magically in hunters sights post-AR. EVERYONE gets a shot at potential trophies now, and pre AR. You mean to tell me that AR makes deer a trophy?

What is YOUR definition of a trophy?

Again, you first claimed that AR had biological benefits, and increased the quality of hunting. Now, you come out and make it seem like AR is trophy management. Why are you so concerned withwhat you call"trophies"? Why is so important that everyone else has the chance to shoot what YOU call potentialtrophies?

My definition of a trophy has not a single indication of size, or quality, or sex. Here is mine: A trophy, in deer hunting terms, isa deerharvested/killed within the confines of hunting that the successful hunter values, both the animal itself and the experience of harvest. It is worth noting that the particulars of what each hunter values varies greatly amonst one another.

My old man shot that forkhorn. He valued it a trophy. We all did. I wouldn't take, or want to take a fellow hunter's ability to harvest what they consider a trophy.

Now, realizing that some hunters value trophy bucks as monster b/c and p/y classes. Well that's fine. But you cannot honestly say that they are not available without AR. AR is NOT needed to produce b/c and p/y class bucks. Look at the NE big buck club. There are plenty of entries from NY.

To those people, I say hunt harder, or look for ways to improve your chances without affecting others on a law/reg level. And, largely thats what most people do...buy land, manage it for QDM, etc.

Also, you need to realize that AR is NOT QDM. AR does not include increasing doe permits. That's a completely different ball game.Thats one of the largest issues in PA right now, if I am not mistaken...the PGC didn;t work all thatconsistently with doe permits and AR.

Paragraph Three:

You should look at NY hunter statistics. WNY carries THE highest number of hunters every year. The Catskills are the second largest region in NY, behind the 'dacks, with the southern tier athird in size. Yet, WNY still has more hunters. So, while you may see a bunch of hunters where you hunt, that could be somewhat of a localized issue, because there simply are not as many hunters as there are in WNY hunting smaller land size.

Paragraph four:

4 week firearm season? No. It's not four weeks in the southern zone, and I believe it is roughly similar to the Northern in length. It's 23 days...three weeks, and two days. Adding five days as you quote would meaning increasing the season 23% over what we have now. Don't forget most of the regular firearms season is AFTER all of the pre-rut, and most of the rut phase...something many other state's have in their regular firearm season.

MZ season isn't regular firearms, so that wouldn't be included in that.

And why is it important for deer to regroup? Is this a battle? A footballgame? Pressure is a part of hunting, and both hunters, and deer have to deal with it. What biological evidenceis there to show thattaking a blue-law type stance here in NY as we once had is better biologically? Read up on how people are attempting to get blue laws removed in NC, VA, etc.There's no biology behind that.

Now, afull scale break. I'm not sosure.There may or may not be benefits. But, at that point we're splitting atoms.

New York does have a myriad of rules.If you want rules,go to VA and NC.Everresearch them? In one city, you can only use a rifle 8 feet off the ground at shoulder height. Another, 10 feet. Another, 8 feet to the platform.There's twentyDIFFERENT season dates. A hunter can hunt from October tothe first weekend inJanuary with a modern firearm in VA! That's not accounting bow season! Then some areas only allow shotguns, others have dog hunting, while some don't...

In AL, home to absolutely great hunting, you can shoot over 100 deer a season legally. There, the gun season ranges from Nov. 13-18 start date to JANUARY 15 (tad more than 23 days...:D)! They've got plenty of deer, but so does NY. Were in the top ten in total population of deer.

My point is...be careful of wanting too many rules, and that NY has a fair balance on its management practicescompared to many states.

Also, seriously...How can "buy a license, load a gun, and have fun" be bad? Isn't thatEXACTLY what hunting is about?

RE: NY hunters question
 

Brilliant!

RE: NY hunters question
 

Hmm.... if we're using the 3 points per side as the guidelines, then I've seen 2 eligible bucks in 22 years of hunting. :eek:

RE: NY hunters question
 

I live in Hurley near the Ashokan and I have yet to even see a rub let alone a deer with horns even standing on the road in the morning. I live ontop of a mountain and see about 4-6 does and fawns every morning on the way to work. I have seen 0 bucks this season thus far. My daily commute consists of driving from Hurley to Fishkill which is 55 miles 1 way. I cannot believe this

RE: NY hunters question
 

CAS, that is exactly my argument FOR A/R! Obviosuly it is not just me who rarely sees nice bucks. A/R would definately cause at least one thing to happen: more bucks surviving to a more mature age. We might have to endure a year or two of catch-up, but after that, I don't see how it would be so hard to find legal bucks if they are being allowed to survive long enough to become legal.