Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
08-23-2002, 02:43 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
The Archery Deer season is quickly approaching in NJ. Sept 7th for some zones. Time do our scouting and plan our hunting spots.
For those of you who hunt public Wildlife Management Areas (WMA) and plan on using permanent deer stands (IE: Ladders, hanging, tripods, stands built with wood, etc), I have just one suggestion, don't do it.
WMA's are there for all of us to enjoy on a 1st come 1st served basis. I have found over the years, that people who put up stands described above, feel that they become 'owners' of the area in which the stand is placed. Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit.
Now I am a member of the hunting public and I HATE permanent stands. I have petitioned Fish and Game the last two years to make permanent stands illegal on WMAs. I've been thanked for my opinion and dismissed.
Last year, 1 week before the season, someone put up 2 big wooden elevated box stands up on an area I've ground hunted from for years. I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't move though, the spot was hot and it was public land. Opening day, i was the 1st one there. I didn't get up in the stands because I felt that wasn't right. I stuck to where i wanted to hunt from on the ground. This happened to be right in between the two stands. About a 1/2 hour after was set up, here come 2 flashlights down the road. I flicked my flashlight on and off so the knew I was there. They made a bee line for me. When they arrived, they told me about the two stands they put up and asked me if I'd seen them. I said 'Yes, but I wouldn't sit there, I like this spot'. They said they were going to hunt the stands and I would have to leave. I said "This is public land and I'm not moving I was here first". They STRONGLY suggested I leave (if you know what I mean, they didn't look happy). There were two of them and they were bigger than me. I left.
The battle lines have been drawn.
Invest in a climbing stand or get one of those new pop up ground blinds you can carry in and take out. Or just find good cover and hunt from the ground. The public lands are for everyone. Don't try and monopolize an area or be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all.
By the way, this goes for duck blinds on WMAs as well.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
For those of you who hunt public Wildlife Management Areas (WMA) and plan on using permanent deer stands (IE: Ladders, hanging, tripods, stands built with wood, etc), I have just one suggestion, don't do it.
WMA's are there for all of us to enjoy on a 1st come 1st served basis. I have found over the years, that people who put up stands described above, feel that they become 'owners' of the area in which the stand is placed. Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit.
Now I am a member of the hunting public and I HATE permanent stands. I have petitioned Fish and Game the last two years to make permanent stands illegal on WMAs. I've been thanked for my opinion and dismissed.
Last year, 1 week before the season, someone put up 2 big wooden elevated box stands up on an area I've ground hunted from for years. I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't move though, the spot was hot and it was public land. Opening day, i was the 1st one there. I didn't get up in the stands because I felt that wasn't right. I stuck to where i wanted to hunt from on the ground. This happened to be right in between the two stands. About a 1/2 hour after was set up, here come 2 flashlights down the road. I flicked my flashlight on and off so the knew I was there. They made a bee line for me. When they arrived, they told me about the two stands they put up and asked me if I'd seen them. I said 'Yes, but I wouldn't sit there, I like this spot'. They said they were going to hunt the stands and I would have to leave. I said "This is public land and I'm not moving I was here first". They STRONGLY suggested I leave (if you know what I mean, they didn't look happy). There were two of them and they were bigger than me. I left.
The battle lines have been drawn.
Invest in a climbing stand or get one of those new pop up ground blinds you can carry in and take out. Or just find good cover and hunt from the ground. The public lands are for everyone. Don't try and monopolize an area or be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all.
By the way, this goes for duck blinds on WMAs as well.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
08-24-2002, 05:21 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Duck, permanent stands (nailed to a tree) are illegal on WMA's. However, putting up a hang-on stand is okay, and I have to disagree with you about what you did. Yes, those permanent wooden stand were not supposed to be there, but they were. So why would you put yourself in the position to be involved in a confrontation on opening day? In my opinion, you went into that area opening morning looking for trouble, found it, and then got upset about it. I hunt public land almost exclusively. When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere. If someone is hunting there, respect that, show some consideration and find another place to hunt. Besides, you don't know how often they hunt the spot (they could be overhunting it), they may not be very careful about reducing their scent in the area and they may be ruining the spot, or have already ruined it.
It seems like some hunters hunt for stands instead of deer. Often, when someone moves in on me and I relocate, they find my stand and set up on top of me again. I have had this same thing happen on private land that others had permission to hunt, as well as public lands. I'm not saying you did this, but many people do.
Hunting crowded public lands requires some common consideration. If you don't practice this, and move too close to someone elses stand just because your miffed that they took "your" spot, then you will find trouble. I hunt for deer, not trouble. What are you hunting for
out there?
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 07:24:56
It seems like some hunters hunt for stands instead of deer. Often, when someone moves in on me and I relocate, they find my stand and set up on top of me again. I have had this same thing happen on private land that others had permission to hunt, as well as public lands. I'm not saying you did this, but many people do.
Hunting crowded public lands requires some common consideration. If you don't practice this, and move too close to someone elses stand just because your miffed that they took "your" spot, then you will find trouble. I hunt for deer, not trouble. What are you hunting for
out there?
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 07:24:56
08-24-2002, 05:38 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Don't try and monopolize an area or be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all.
Duckmastor2
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I just read your post again. You need to clarify this statement I've quoted above. If you are one of those guy's that steals stands because you're pissed off that someone put it there, on public land, then you don't belong in the woods, and are a thief, not a hunter. I hope that you didn't mean what this seems to imply, but if you did mean it this way, you are looking for serious trouble, and injury each fall, not deer. Please do all of us in NJ a favor and stay in Delaware.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 06:40:47
Don't try and monopolize an area or be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all.
Duckmastor2
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I just read your post again. You need to clarify this statement I've quoted above. If you are one of those guy's that steals stands because you're pissed off that someone put it there, on public land, then you don't belong in the woods, and are a thief, not a hunter. I hope that you didn't mean what this seems to imply, but if you did mean it this way, you are looking for serious trouble, and injury each fall, not deer. Please do all of us in NJ a favor and stay in Delaware.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 06:40:47
08-24-2002, 05:51 AM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: OKC Ok. USA
Posts: 501
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Sounds like sour grapes to me. Although you have just as much right to hunt a area as much as anyone especially being there first ,but it sounds as if you're more jealous than anything else.
I've built permanent waterfowl blinds on WMA and never had a problem. I used to hunt only on the weekdays and beating me to them was next to impossible as I'd be in one and set up 2 hours before shooting time. I didn't hunt on the weekend or holidays so I'm sure that they were enjoyed by other hunters. On public land it's first come first serve, as long as a person that builds one understands that there shouldn't ever be a problem.
I've built permanent waterfowl blinds on WMA and never had a problem. I used to hunt only on the weekdays and beating me to them was next to impossible as I'd be in one and set up 2 hours before shooting time. I didn't hunt on the weekend or holidays so I'm sure that they were enjoyed by other hunters. On public land it's first come first serve, as long as a person that builds one understands that there shouldn't ever be a problem.
08-24-2002, 06:46 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Actually NJ, Im not a thief. Funny you said that. This post is a "tamed down version". I eliminated a whole paragraph explaining possible actions to be taken to rectify the permanent stand problem since Fish and Game has decided to do nothing. "Im not thief" was the 1st sentence of that paragraph. I dont take things that arent mine.
I appreciate your opinions. I dont agree with them, but I appreciate hearing other peoples take to the situation. From what you said, it is perfectly exceptable for people to place stands and claim public land for themselves only. They have effectively done this in your case since you stated "When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere" In theory, if i put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land, i could effective keep all people with your feelings off the property. This is not exceptable and it blows my mind that people feel it is.
Ruddy, jealous? I think not. I own a hang on, ladder and climbing stand. Im just not ignorant enough put them up on public property. I put them out on my friends land and some land I sub lease. Thats where they belong. Since you dont waterfowl hunt on the weekends, I can see why you have little if no problems. Give it a go on a Saturday morning sometime and let me know how it works out.
I will continue to do what I can (legally NJ) to get these stands and blinds out. Im not shutting up or going away. And you can bet i'll be out there in the fall. Maybe we'll run into each other and we can talk about it further. I'll be the guy with the portable hunting stool or climber.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 08/24/2002 09:34:28
Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 08/24/2002 09:38:02
I appreciate your opinions. I dont agree with them, but I appreciate hearing other peoples take to the situation. From what you said, it is perfectly exceptable for people to place stands and claim public land for themselves only. They have effectively done this in your case since you stated "When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere" In theory, if i put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land, i could effective keep all people with your feelings off the property. This is not exceptable and it blows my mind that people feel it is.
Ruddy, jealous? I think not. I own a hang on, ladder and climbing stand. Im just not ignorant enough put them up on public property. I put them out on my friends land and some land I sub lease. Thats where they belong. Since you dont waterfowl hunt on the weekends, I can see why you have little if no problems. Give it a go on a Saturday morning sometime and let me know how it works out.
I will continue to do what I can (legally NJ) to get these stands and blinds out. Im not shutting up or going away. And you can bet i'll be out there in the fall. Maybe we'll run into each other and we can talk about it further. I'll be the guy with the portable hunting stool or climber.
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 08/24/2002 09:34:28
Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 08/24/2002 09:38:02
08-24-2002, 07:55 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
From what you said, it is perfectly exceptable for people to place stands and claim public land for themselves only. They have effectively done this in your case since you stated "When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere" In theory, if i put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land, i could effective keep all people with your feelings off the property. This is not exceptable and it blows my mind that people feel it is.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Here is what I said: when hunting public land you need to be more considerate of other hunters. That means moving away from an area that someone else is hunting, just like when hunting private land where others also hunt. It's just called being considerate of another hunter's set-up and giving him/her some breathing room. If you do not want to do this, and want to claim that it's just as much your spot as it is the guy who put the stand up, well, go ahead, you have that right. However, you will spend a good portion of your hunting season in confrontations. If you really want to hunt that spot so badly, be prepared to accept the ramifications, which will be the type of experience you described earlier. In my opinion, the better course of action is to find a place elsewhere. Unless the public land you are hunting is less than 100 acres, it's unlikely that every spot is taken by a guy who "put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land,".
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Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit.
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I don't understand how you can actually subscribe to this line of thinking. When you park your car in the public parking area, on public hunting land, does it become public property for the public to do with as they wish? Do you think we should expect other hunters to use our car to go to breakfast, or sit in to keep warm or dry, just because it is now on public land and they can do with our car as they wish? How about the comment about realizing the stand could be missing because it was left on public land. Do you think we should accept the fact that just because we park our cars in a public parking space, they are fair game to be stolen, or "now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit" <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 09:04:12
From what you said, it is perfectly exceptable for people to place stands and claim public land for themselves only. They have effectively done this in your case since you stated "When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere" In theory, if i put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land, i could effective keep all people with your feelings off the property. This is not exceptable and it blows my mind that people feel it is.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Here is what I said: when hunting public land you need to be more considerate of other hunters. That means moving away from an area that someone else is hunting, just like when hunting private land where others also hunt. It's just called being considerate of another hunter's set-up and giving him/her some breathing room. If you do not want to do this, and want to claim that it's just as much your spot as it is the guy who put the stand up, well, go ahead, you have that right. However, you will spend a good portion of your hunting season in confrontations. If you really want to hunt that spot so badly, be prepared to accept the ramifications, which will be the type of experience you described earlier. In my opinion, the better course of action is to find a place elsewhere. Unless the public land you are hunting is less than 100 acres, it's unlikely that every spot is taken by a guy who "put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land,".
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I don't understand how you can actually subscribe to this line of thinking. When you park your car in the public parking area, on public hunting land, does it become public property for the public to do with as they wish? Do you think we should expect other hunters to use our car to go to breakfast, or sit in to keep warm or dry, just because it is now on public land and they can do with our car as they wish? How about the comment about realizing the stand could be missing because it was left on public land. Do you think we should accept the fact that just because we park our cars in a public parking space, they are fair game to be stolen, or "now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit" <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 09:04:12
08-24-2002, 09:45 AM
#7
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ocean County NJ USA
Posts: 100
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
I put up ladder and chain on stands in WMAs so do most other hunters in NJ If I am hunting a particular area I would like to think that other people are like me and just LEAVE when they encounter another hunter not pull the crap that it's WMA and I'll go were I want. Now I'm not greedy I only have 1 stand up at a time. I respect other hunters space as they should mine.
08-24-2002, 09:09 PM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: OKC Ok. USA
Posts: 501
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Duckmastor try taking some vacation time during hunting season. You have the same basic complaints about waterfowling too. Believe it or not there are still places one can hunt ducks on the weekend without it being elbow to elbow ,but it takes some time to research and find them.
Still sounds like sour grapes to me IMHO.
Still sounds like sour grapes to me IMHO.
08-25-2002, 06:42 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington Delaware USA
Posts: 699
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Like I said, I appreciate all you opinions. We can continue to create scenarios and sitiutaions that will support our views until the cows come home, but know ones going to change their mind.
There are 3 people in this forum who disagree with me and think marking a spot for yourself is exceptable. I posted this on the Bowhunting forum and last time I checked, there were 2 people that agreed with me. Add myself to those 2 and its 50/50. When I talked to people in the field, thats generally what I find as well. It right down the middle.
Well guys, put up your permanent stands, lock them up and keep your fingers crossed. NJ will continue to be considerate and leave areas when he see stands go up no matter how long he may have scouted/hunted the area. Ruddy doesnt mind people squating in his blind when he's not around so he should be ok. Big wants people to leave his area when they see his stand. And then there's me, who will be out and about, doing what I can to keep areas open for ALL the hunting public to enjoy.
Happy Hunting
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
There are 3 people in this forum who disagree with me and think marking a spot for yourself is exceptable. I posted this on the Bowhunting forum and last time I checked, there were 2 people that agreed with me. Add myself to those 2 and its 50/50. When I talked to people in the field, thats generally what I find as well. It right down the middle.
Well guys, put up your permanent stands, lock them up and keep your fingers crossed. NJ will continue to be considerate and leave areas when he see stands go up no matter how long he may have scouted/hunted the area. Ruddy doesnt mind people squating in his blind when he's not around so he should be ok. Big wants people to leave his area when they see his stand. And then there's me, who will be out and about, doing what I can to keep areas open for ALL the hunting public to enjoy.
Happy Hunting
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,,
Duckmastor2
08-25-2002, 08:47 AM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
And then there's me, who will be out and about, doing what I can to keep areas open for ALL the hunting public to enjoy.
Happy Hunting
Duckmastor2
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Do you wear Superman underoos under your camo coveralls? I disagree with you that 50 percent of hunters think it's okay to set up on top of another hunters stand. However, assuming that you are right, your little "crusade" here is not for ALL the hunting public as you boast, because, by your own admission, half of the hunters out there don't agree with you. So basically, your 'cause' is pursued for the other 50 percent that think it is okay to disrespect all other hunters in the woods and set up wherever you like.
Duck, wouldn't hunting season be more relaxing and enjoyable if you were hunting deer instead of hunting for confrontations? You are causing yourself alot of stress, and doing it for a purpose that isn't even an ethical one. Yes, I get upset when someone moves in a screws up the area I was set-up in. But continuing to hunt there is only going to be more frustrating, and possibly cause problems like the one you began this thread with.
There are plenty of places out there that do not have stands in them, and offer good to great deer hunting. Put your energy into finding them, instead of fighting with other hunters who beat you to a spot.
Just a good piece of advice, do with it what you want.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/25/2002 09:53:21
And then there's me, who will be out and about, doing what I can to keep areas open for ALL the hunting public to enjoy.
Happy Hunting
Duckmastor2
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Do you wear Superman underoos under your camo coveralls? I disagree with you that 50 percent of hunters think it's okay to set up on top of another hunters stand. However, assuming that you are right, your little "crusade" here is not for ALL the hunting public as you boast, because, by your own admission, half of the hunters out there don't agree with you. So basically, your 'cause' is pursued for the other 50 percent that think it is okay to disrespect all other hunters in the woods and set up wherever you like.
Duck, wouldn't hunting season be more relaxing and enjoyable if you were hunting deer instead of hunting for confrontations? You are causing yourself alot of stress, and doing it for a purpose that isn't even an ethical one. Yes, I get upset when someone moves in a screws up the area I was set-up in. But continuing to hunt there is only going to be more frustrating, and possibly cause problems like the one you began this thread with.
There are plenty of places out there that do not have stands in them, and offer good to great deer hunting. Put your energy into finding them, instead of fighting with other hunters who beat you to a spot.
Just a good piece of advice, do with it what you want.
Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/25/2002 09:53:21