Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
03-05-2006, 06:44 AM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: West Winfield New York USA
Posts: 545
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
ORIGINAL: Phade
And, please don't turn this post into the last thread (50 billion pages). I am not posting this to be a discussion thread on the topic. Instead, it's about getting into contact with other NY hunters about a hunting subject.
And, please don't turn this post into the last thread (50 billion pages). I am not posting this to be a discussion thread on the topic. Instead, it's about getting into contact with other NY hunters about a hunting subject.
03-05-2006, 10:51 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caledonia, NY
Posts: 773
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
ORIGINAL: mlo3135127
How could you start this post and actuallythink it would turn out different?
ORIGINAL: Phade
And, please don't turn this post into the last thread (50 billion pages). I am not posting this to be a discussion thread on the topic. Instead, it's about getting into contact with other NY hunters about a hunting subject.
And, please don't turn this post into the last thread (50 billion pages). I am not posting this to be a discussion thread on the topic. Instead, it's about getting into contact with other NY hunters about a hunting subject.
03-05-2006, 02:19 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Livonia,new york
Posts: 564
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
i'm all for it.
honestly i like small deer. more of a meat guy. it would be nice to see bigger bucks around.
i got my first good size buck this past gun season.
9 pointer, probably weighed in at oooh i'll just guess 140 lbs.
they worst meat i have had yet. could be a multiple of things i know, but i honestly don't think i'll be hunting for big bucks first thing this year.
i have eaten less venison this year than the past 4 years and it's because the meat is a little rough for my taste.
nothing like the meat on a button buckor small doe.
but it would be nice to have a nice # of brutes in this state.
could maybe see myself getting into photography/videotaping if that happens.
honestly i like small deer. more of a meat guy. it would be nice to see bigger bucks around.
i got my first good size buck this past gun season.
9 pointer, probably weighed in at oooh i'll just guess 140 lbs.
they worst meat i have had yet. could be a multiple of things i know, but i honestly don't think i'll be hunting for big bucks first thing this year.
i have eaten less venison this year than the past 4 years and it's because the meat is a little rough for my taste.
nothing like the meat on a button buckor small doe.
but it would be nice to have a nice # of brutes in this state.
could maybe see myself getting into photography/videotaping if that happens.
03-06-2006, 08:52 AM
#16
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 613
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
Well, I didnt get involved in the last AR thread because it was too long, and I never got started in it early on. Second, I have no plans on getting involved in Phades article per se,so, in the spirit ofa discussion board, here goes! My take...Yes, AR works in theory. Yes, it has loopholes. Yes, we all practice it here locally, voluntarily. And no, it wont work as a mandatory rule, itll make more game violators than big bucks. Selective hunters will always lean things the right way, and then exceptions wont stand out so sorely...Phade, I KNOW you arent reading this, as you just posted the initial post to get PMs, so this discussion wont bother you one bit...lol. Boy that worked out nicely!
03-07-2006, 02:00 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
Yes, I know, I'm from PA.
Please don't shoot me yet, I have a little background to give you.
We are into the fourth or so season of AR in PA.
For the first time ever, my whole family tagged out in archery on nice bucks. I saw so many bucks this year it was amazing. I heard bucks fighting several times in the dark walking in. The rut was crazy, unlike any season I have ever seen so far. I'm liking it.
However......
There are those who do not want to spend alot of time in the woods, for whatever reason. Maybe they only get a few days off from work, family pressures, so on. It is these folks who will turn their attention to does instead. Now, QDM guys will lick their lips at this thought, but we are talking about public land that cannot be managed like private could be. These guys will over harvest (I hate that word) the antlerless deer in that area.....resulting in the much hated HR part that seems inseperable from AR in PA. Our big woods hunters have all but given up on hunting in many areas, they are devoid now, save for a few MASSIVE bucks. In suburban areas it has worked like a dream for me and my family. We do hunt up camp still, but there are very few deer up there now.
In the right areas and setting, AR is great, but there are a few pitfalls to watch for. I think limiting antlerless tags in big woods public areas is a must. And...see a coyote, shoot a coyote! With less deer, predation shows up more. Each fawn becomes even more valuable the less deer there are.
Like I said, in the right setting, AR can be your best friend. But it does not work everywhere.
Please don't shoot me yet, I have a little background to give you.
We are into the fourth or so season of AR in PA.
For the first time ever, my whole family tagged out in archery on nice bucks. I saw so many bucks this year it was amazing. I heard bucks fighting several times in the dark walking in. The rut was crazy, unlike any season I have ever seen so far. I'm liking it.
However......
There are those who do not want to spend alot of time in the woods, for whatever reason. Maybe they only get a few days off from work, family pressures, so on. It is these folks who will turn their attention to does instead. Now, QDM guys will lick their lips at this thought, but we are talking about public land that cannot be managed like private could be. These guys will over harvest (I hate that word) the antlerless deer in that area.....resulting in the much hated HR part that seems inseperable from AR in PA. Our big woods hunters have all but given up on hunting in many areas, they are devoid now, save for a few MASSIVE bucks. In suburban areas it has worked like a dream for me and my family. We do hunt up camp still, but there are very few deer up there now.
In the right areas and setting, AR is great, but there are a few pitfalls to watch for. I think limiting antlerless tags in big woods public areas is a must. And...see a coyote, shoot a coyote! With less deer, predation shows up more. Each fawn becomes even more valuable the less deer there are.
Like I said, in the right setting, AR can be your best friend. But it does not work everywhere.
03-07-2006, 03:38 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
I live in Pa and have also lived through AR for four years.While I see no need for it biologically,I like it for two reasons.First,it puts a higher percentage of older bucks into a higher age class.Like Livbucks stated,this definately intensifies the rut.I'm seeing alot less deer for a variety of reasons but the bucks are very responsive to calls.Second,AR forces people to slow down and be sure of their target.I used to hate it when people saw a little bit of bone and took irresponsible shots.Ar hasn't totally solved that problem but it helped.Do we need it?no but I still like it and I don't consider myself a trophy hunter.
03-22-2006, 01:45 PM
#19
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 361
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
I agree with it wholeheartedely. I am tired of seeing deer than are younger than some of my discarded turds on the back of cars when I drive home from hunting. New York has become a spike state...every damn buck is a spike! Plus, it will serve 2 purposes in my eyes:
1. Obviosuly allow bucks to grow older
2. Encourage people to shoot more does, which is actually the principal of QDM.
I think it should be phased in:
Year 1: Keep doe permits to a decreased level to increase herd size. Implement 4 point rule.
Year 2:Begin increasingdoe permits gradually
Year 3: Implement 3 points onone side rule during gun season
Year 4: Use doe permits to manage herd size
Implement and maintain 3 points on one side rule for all seasons
I'm no expert, but I thought about that scenario a lot and think it makes sense. Diving into it head on would just create confusion and horrible seasons for a few years.
1. Obviosuly allow bucks to grow older
2. Encourage people to shoot more does, which is actually the principal of QDM.
I think it should be phased in:
Year 1: Keep doe permits to a decreased level to increase herd size. Implement 4 point rule.
Year 2:Begin increasingdoe permits gradually
Year 3: Implement 3 points onone side rule during gun season
Year 4: Use doe permits to manage herd size
Implement and maintain 3 points on one side rule for all seasons
I'm no expert, but I thought about that scenario a lot and think it makes sense. Diving into it head on would just create confusion and horrible seasons for a few years.
03-22-2006, 02:07 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: Hunters against A/R in NY. Read.
The game managers would have some reservations about using your plan.
If you decrease the antlerless permits and institute AR in the same year, you will have a huge increase in the OW(overwintering) herd that year. To implement AR without stressing the OW herd, you must kill more (ALOT) more antlerless that year. The problem in PA is that they raised the antlerless tag allocationand kept it there for several seasons, instead of decreasing it incrementally after that first season, for whatever reason. Some areasdid benefit from the reduction in the herd, while some big woods tracts have suffered, conversely.
If you decrease the antlerless permits and institute AR in the same year, you will have a huge increase in the OW(overwintering) herd that year. To implement AR without stressing the OW herd, you must kill more (ALOT) more antlerless that year. The problem in PA is that they raised the antlerless tag allocationand kept it there for several seasons, instead of decreasing it incrementally after that first season, for whatever reason. Some areasdid benefit from the reduction in the herd, while some big woods tracts have suffered, conversely.