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Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

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Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

Old 01-16-2006, 10:26 AM
  #11  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: West Winfield New York USA
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

I agree that coyotes do take some deer. More than taking healthy deer they clean up hunter wounded and unrecovered deer. They pickat these deer throughout the winter. It's funny how we shoot the crap of our deer and in the last few years killed many more does than in the past and we still try to blame it on coyotes. I am not saying that coyotes are not or will not become a problem, Im saying we may be the biggest problem. It always seems the deer that hunters kill don't count when it comes to a smaller deer population, but when a coyote kills a deer it is the end of the world.
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Old 01-16-2006, 12:18 PM
  #12  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

That study is interesting but inconclusive after just one year.Hunting pressure could have dropped way down in that area.Another couple years of IR studies should give a more detailed explanation of what's going on.It is entirely possible that the habitat can be controlling the herd in an area like that though.I hunt some pretty remote areas that get's very limited hunting pressure and i've been seeing way less deer the last couple of years.No way did hunters kill that many deer in these instances.We had two brutal back to back winters with almost no mast crop.That will have a huge effect onwinter mortality and lower recruitment rates when there's no browse.As far as the predators go,take a look back at the fawn mortality study.Predation is apretty big factor when the habitat is stressed.The less deer you have,the morenoticeable that effect is.Also,when the does aren't malnurished,they generally give birth to much healthier fawns.If the doe is malnurished,the fawns are easier prey forthe predators.We have to fix the habitat or we'll keep going through these cycles.
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Old 01-16-2006, 12:24 PM
  #13  
jf5
 
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

I havn't hunted PA in 9 years, but hunt an area in MA that has very low hunter pressure. The deer density is low to start b/c of habitat. But there are so many coyotes, it must have some impact. Especially during hard winters. Scat is tough to call, because the Yote may have eaten a deer, but not necessarily killed it. But when you see more yote sign than deer, it makes you wonder.

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Old 01-16-2006, 12:36 PM
  #14  
 
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Location: West Winfield New York USA
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

We had two brutal back to back winters with almost no mast crop.That will have a huge effect onwinter mortality and lower recruitment rates when there's no browse.As far as the predators go,take a look back at the fawn mortality study.Predation is apretty big factor when the habitat is stressed.The less deer you have,the morenoticeable that effect is.Also,when the does aren't malnurished,they generally give birth to much healthier fawns.If the doe is malnurished,the fawns are easier prey forthe predators.We have to fix the habitat or we'll keep going through these cycles.
DougE, you made some very good points here. It just bothers me thatalot hunters don't understand all of this and they point their fingers at the coyote.
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Old 01-16-2006, 01:12 PM
  #15  
 
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

Check out Page 18 of the January 2006 issue of American Hunter. It shows that in a whole bunch of studies conducted around the U.S. that between 80 and 86% of deer killed is from coyotes. Also, How about this; According to State Farm Insurance, it is estimated that 1.5 million vehicles collide with deer, resulting in 150 motoist deaths and $1.1 Billion in vehicle damages.
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Old 01-16-2006, 02:57 PM
  #16  
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

I believe the decline in the deer population has to do with a combination of things, hunters, Bad winters and coyotes.I think coyotes are taking a bigger bite out of the deer population than people give them credit for. they got to eat something. There isn't much in the way of small game in PA for them to eat. I have relatives that lease a farm in Maryland. They see coyotes there all the time and have been noticing a serious decline in the amount of deer. Just thi past year, my brother- in -law was watching a doe work her way down the trail toward him. Out of nowhere came a coyote after the doe, spoiling his chances for a shot. My other brother-in-law saw 7 yotes running together. They always hear them howling and have lots of sightings.

Yes, I think they put a serious dent in they deer population. They should have something to get guys interested in coyote hunting. Bounties or something.
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Old 01-16-2006, 03:55 PM
  #17  
Giant Nontypical
 
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

you are not making any points with hunters that kill doe when there are only few left.here in 2g of state of pa.you are right on. the fawns are taking beaten from yotes but hunters are shooting fawns also. some say they taste better. i hope to god those hunters wake up and see that they are destroying what is left of great tradition here in pa. when there was lots of deer here in 2g , i had no problem killing doe, never a fawn.but with only 2 or 3 deer a mile in 2g or none,it is foolish to kill a doe.take care.
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Old 01-16-2006, 04:06 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

I really would like to know where those missing does are from the study. I dont beleive that poachers got em all but where did the radio collars go?
Did they have a bunch of battery failures? Did the coyotes find the transmitters tasty? Were the does abducted by aliens?
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Old 01-16-2006, 04:30 PM
  #19  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

I think the coyotes ate the collars.If they're like my dog they'll eat anything.

I highly doubt poachers could have killed them all BT but a few wouldn't surprise me.Poaching is terrible in those parts.
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Old 01-16-2006, 04:53 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: Could it be that overhunting is not the problem in PA?

I think coyotes take a fair number of fawns in this part and I think they also do a number on the deer when the snow is deep,especially if there's a crust on top.It's also worth noting that the habitat is terrible around here.

If you're finding scat withdeer hair in it this time of year,there's a fair chance the coyote killed the deer.I see dead deer all the time in the winter,especially after hunting season and I've never seenthem eat a frozen carcuss.I've seen tracks go right up to them but they never took a bite.Also,they mainly go for the internal organs.A gutpile doesn't last two days around here in archery season.
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