RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

What makes a cornfield planted for human consumption any different than an alfalfa field planted for deer consumption? Aren't both fields a natural food source in the mind of a deer? And don't the deer react the same way in both cases or does an alfapha field make the deer lose their instinctive nocturnal behavior when it comes to open fields?

I'm being serious. I really don'tunderstand the difference betweenthe two other than the fact that one is anative food source and the other isn't. To me it seems the deer should still react the same way, but they'll get more nutritional value out of the alfapha or whatever it is the landowner choosesto plant.



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RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

OK here is the definitive question that answers the main issue, How many of you hunters go to a place where there is NO chance a deer will show up, no apple trees, no corn fields, no oak trees on watering hole no reason for a deer to be there at all?????
OK you setup you tree-stand or ground blind or walk around an area where the is "BAIT" something that draws deer to that area, food, water or shelter hoping the bait will be enough to bring in the deer. End of sentence.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Big John H:

How is that a "definitive answer?" The question asks what's the difference between baiting and planting a field full of deer food?

Many on here have tried to twist it by comparing to hunting near NATURAL FOOD SOURCES ... or even harvested agricultural fields. This is not what is at question.

The question is what is the difference between planting DEER FOOD & putting outa pile of DEER BAIT.

So far, the only legitimate answers trying to separate the two have been that a food plot (containing un-naturally occurring deer food) are larger, more expensive, they cover a larger area, and take more work to create than a single pile offood. ... Again, noone is arguing thatputting out any bait or food plot is a guarantee to fill a deer tag, turkey tag, or bear tag.

As far as I see it (& again, this is only my opinion) there is no difference. In bothinstances, you are using a deer's need for food to get the deer into a position where you can kill it. Granted, a food plot does not precisely position the animal like a pile of food does, but it does draw animals into the open for no other reason than the availability of food (hence, the reason my friend killed such a nice mature buck out in the open mid-day five days into the regular firearms season. He would have never seen that animal if he was standing next to a barren field of dirt that had no nutritional value to a post-rut animal that needs to put on weight fast before winter.)

I am not arguing that other animals do not get any added benefits from a food plot. I am simply saying that it is simply "selective idignation" to say that someone whom puts out a pile of corn/apples/salt is a despicable "bait hunter" while someone whom plants acres of deer food is a "conservationist." They are both taking advantage of a deer's need for food by MANIPULATING THE ENVIRONMENT THAT THE DEER LIVES IN AND FEEDS IN.

Hunting a stand of naturally occurring oak mast, beech mast, or other feeding area is not manipulating the animal's natural environment. It is simply taking advantage of the conditions in which the animal lives and feeds. Now, if someone were to walk around the woods, collect all the dropped acorns in the area, and put them in a single location, that would be the same as baiting, since they have manipulated the deer's environment and natural food availability. In PA, this would be regarded by game officials as unlawful baiting, yet when someone plants a field full of some non-native agricultural product for no other reason than to feed & kill deer -it is not illegal. Seems to be an incongrous situation if you ask me.

Also, for those of you questioning, how or where I hunt. My brother and Ionly ever hunt state game lands that are open to public hunting. There are no food plots in the areas we hunt, and we have never, ever used any bait to lure animals to our hunting locations. Yet, we have killed plenty of big bucks during the past few years by simply hunting hard and putting in lots of effort during the hunt. Please see my post for proof: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1349520

Others feel that by putting in a lot of effort by planting deer food on the front end, they should be able to leisurely sit in a stand near that food and collect animals as they come to eat the "MAN-PROVIDED" food. I see this simply as a loophole that sadly allows a specific type of baiting to belegal.

Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and all of this discussion is mute in states where baititng is allowed.

I was just curious as to what others feel about the situation.

- Gr8ful

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Ocording to the DEC baiting is " a prearanged pile of food /or a salt lick used to bait an animal for the purpose of hunting it"

A food plot is a planted not piled food that is being used for that purpose. Now acording to the DEC you could be charged with baiting if for instance there was a pile of corn in the middle of a field after a harvest do to the fact they could NOT prove you didn't put it there. Just got off the phone with the DEC because their on line site says it is illegal but did not define what bait was.
Hows that?

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

We already went through numerous points...guess it is easier if we start with one fact at a time. Please let us now why you feel each one of these points is not a valid difference between Baiting and constructing a food plot.

Point #1..Nutrition: When it comes to nutrition, very few farm crops can provide the quality of nutrition that food plot forages can. For example corn provides 6-8 percent protein and, at best, is only available for one or two months each year. Imperial Whitetail Clover, Alfa-Rack Plus and Extreme can easily provide 30-plus percent protein for nine months in the north and the whole year in the south. So, Imperial Clover trumps corn at every turn.

Once you have a chance to respond to this point I will post another...

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Gr8ful Deer, In your last post it seems that you know all of the answers, so why did you post the question in the first place? One of my answers waswith bait you canmake a deer go to an exact spot rather than anywhere random on a 60 acre planted field. Thats the difference and thats a big difference if you are hunting with a bow.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

So if you get a small bag of mossy oak`s seeds ,which you can buy at Walmart, And it only plants a 10 foot X 10 foot "PLOT" would this be baiting? Does size of the food plot matter to make it not baiting?just wondering since alot of posts have 60 acre plots. Is there a difference?

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

stretchhunts, Yes it does make a difference. For one thing I have herd from other hunters who have planted a 10 X 10 plot they never saw a deer in it. Read the posts, the question said a 60 acre field not a 10 x 10 plot. It is obvious if a deer comes to a 10 x 10 plot you will be pin pointing him to a smaller spot (like baiting) the only thing is if the deer hit a small plot like this, itwould be gone before hunting season starts. With baiting you can keep adding bait as needed. Size of a food plot does matter, a deer has a much better chance of living if it comes out on the far side of a 60 acre food plot rather than the far side of a 10 X 10 plot.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Quote:

---

ORIGINAL: Gr8ful Deer

Many on here have tried to twist it by comparing to hunting near NATURAL FOOD SOURCES ... or even harvested agricultural fields. This is not what is at question.

The question is what is the difference between planting DEER FOOD & putting outa pile of DEER BAIT.

---

I don't think I was twisting anything when I asked youwhat the difference between a cornfield planted for human consumption and an alfalfa field planted for deer consumption was. I simply believe there is a question within your question.

But here's my answer to your exact question as I understand it. Which is what do I think the difference is.

To begin,in my opinion BAITING means to trick or take advantage of a deer's natural instincts.

A field full of DEER FOOD is still an open field and the deer will treat it the same way they would treat an agricultural field. They're not going to drop their instinctiveself preservationhabits and walk out into the field because the DEER FOOD tastes better than corn. If they do I think there is an underlying reason for it that has nothing to do with the DEER FOOD. So I don't see where a person is taking advantage of any natural instincts. They are simply hoping that the DEER FOOD will bring deer into the area because it's a good food source. They're not trying to trick them into doing something they normally wouldn't.

DEER BAIT is generally placed in the woods. In this case you are banking on the fact that the deer will be more comfortable coming to it because they are in the woods where they spend most of their time and feel secure. So you are tricking the deer into thinking they are secure while eating the DEER BAIT. You're clearly taking advantage of their natural instincts. Not the instinct to feed, the instinct that tells them they are secure in the woods rather than in the open in the middle of the day.

DEER BAIT in the form of a feeder also takes advantage of a deer's natural instincts. After a while the deer will gain a sense of security at the feeding station because they haven't been bothered there all year long. So their instinctive self preservation habits tell them that it's safe to come to the feeder whether it's in the middle of a field or the middle of the woods. In this case you're taking advantage of the deer by tricking them into a false sense of security.

In human terms.....if I'm headed out to buy some hunting gear and there is a Wal-Mart down the road in a niceneighborhood (DEER BAIT) I'm going to visit that one instead of the one in the middle of gang territory (DEER FOOD). My instincts tell me I'm more likely to run into trouble in the middle of gang territory (AN OPEN FIELD) than I will in a nice neighborhood (THE WOODS). If my car was stolen from the parking lot in the nice neighborhood someone took advantage of my instinctive self preservation habits.

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RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

So why in NY you can plant a food plot ( doesn`t state a size on the DEC website) but can`t put a "Baitpile" out. I`ve also done the 10 x 10 plots where my wife hunts and it draws does in. She`s had does come within 5 feet of her next to this "PLOT". It just doesn`t make sence. We hunt on 58 acres so we can`t plant a 60 acre plot. This is why I went with alot of smaller plots. At first I thought I was making bigger RACKS on the bucks but then I started ?ing myself as far as baiting goes. So if it`s a small plot it`s baiting but if it`s a 60 acre or bigger more expensive plot it`s ok? I`m not trying to be an A@S here but just don`t see the difference in it.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

You answer your own question in this response Stretch. You specifically say you have MANY SMALL FOOD PLOTS. If you didn't have "many" plots the deer would destroy your plots very quickly making them useless.

Even if we assume the deer were heavily attracted to your plots they still have "many" choices as to which one to visit. This is very much the same as deer having many choices as to where to eat naturally occuring foods.

Unlike baiting that is done with high volumes of feed at very few sites, the situation you have described still requires a hunters skills to decide which one of the "many" plots you have planted will be most attractive to deer based on their natural tendencies. This is very simililar to the situations required to hunt naturally occuring foods such as acorns.

What doesn't mmake sense?...Thousands ofdeer come within 5 feet of hunters in a stand every year, especially when the hunters are located near any food source.Whether it happens near a "plot" or any other food source it is not really very surprising.

It is really pretty simple...the deer never saw, smelled, or heard your wife (that is after all every hunters goal).The deer came to a food source, and it ate. That is what deer do 24/7/365.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Ummm so if I put out as many bait piles as I have food plots which is 5 that are 10X 10 would I be baiting? I`ve got 5 towers on the 58 acres I hunt with each having a 10X10 food plot in front of them. On thanksgiving I`ve had a hunter in each tower and have deer at all the plots. If you read labels of the seeds they all saw attractant. Bait piles and food plots atract deer. Where we hunt there are corn fields and apple trees so it doesn`t make sence that I can plant a plot of food that doesn`t grow in the area and it not be considered baiting. But god forbid if you move some apples into a pile or corn.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

The reason I couldn`t believe the deer where within 5 feet from my wife is b/c she was sitting in the tower which sites on a 12 foot wide X 150yard long trail. The deer come right out of Hemlocks(which they used to eat) to get to the food plots. The hemlocks are a natural food source and give them awesome consealment.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Are your 10 x 10 foodplots in the woods?

If that's the case then I don't think there is a difference between baiting and planting food plots in that manner. A large field, which is where we started I think,is far different than some 10 x 10 patches of food plots surrounded by woods.

Yes, even a field is surrounded by woods but a large field versus a 10 x 10 food plot is different IMO. So with that in mind I guess the size of the food plot mayplay a role in whether or not it's considered baiting.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Originally you stated you had "alot" of 10x10 plots on your 58 acres.

Now you are saying you have..5?

I would not consider 5, 10x10 plots on 58 acres "alot" of plots by any means.(100sq feet per 10 acres).

Then you say you have a "tower" over each one.

Yes...this is taking a food plot as close to baiting as it gets.

NO.....this situation has nothing to do with the standard concept of a "food plot" as it is commonly refered to in hunting literature, and more specifically in this post.

Fortunately, it is still better than standard baiting though...

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Of course they do, why would the deer browse on matter that has very little nutritous value(hemlocks), when they have the option of feeding from nutritionally superior matter only a few feet away?Deer are very capable of deciding which foodsprovide the most nutrition, and will always eat those first when avaiable.That is the reasonwhy most people plant small food plots in the manner you chose. As far as hunting over them that isobviously a different agenda.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

My point is that in NY state you can hunt "over" a food plot but can`t put out corn,apples or salt blocks. It doesn`t say you need the food plot to be a certain size. It just says food plots are legal. The 58 acresI hunt does have 5 food plots on it with 5 towers. IMO this is many since 58 acres doesn`t seem like alot of land to me. Sorry to miss speak.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

I agree strech, your points are all well made.

I really don't think there are too many people in your situation,(using the plots in that manner), nor do I think it is a big enough issue that the state should be worrying about it.

I think you are likely helping the herd, and that it is unlikely you are affecting anyone elses hunting.I believe that you should be allowed a certain amount of discretion assuming those two criteria are met and it is afterall your own land.(private property)

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

so bringing in a very nutritous source like Clover,alfalfa (that`s not natualy in your area) that deer are going to not go to thier normal feeding areas to go to the plots is not baiting? I say bait if you want but saying one isn`t baiting b/c one is larger/better nutriants/costs more$/takes more time/more animals feed off it is crap. Both bring deer in so we can shoot them. So the hunting divide continues. Last post on this topic. Good luck hunting with the 60 acre plots. I`ll stick with my po man 10X10 baiting food plots. :D;):)

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

There in lies the fault in your argument...you falsely assume that both are designed to...."bring deer in so we can shoot them."

As you well know most hunters create "bait" piles with thesole intention of hunter over top ofthem....

Noteveryone that plants 10x10 foot plots in the woods is doing so, so that they can siton top ofthem and shoot deer in them.The reality is, that very few people do that. The example you are describing is the exception, not the rule.

You must have missed the part where I said what I think of the specific situation you are describing...wherea tower Blind is built over top of the site for the specific purpose of shooting deer in the food plot......

In the end, this situation you are describingstill hasvery little in common with the original postthat startedthis thread,(not that this wasn't a worthwhile debate).

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Yes this was a worthwhile debate.;)Just don`t shoot that deer in that 60 acre food plot, oh wait go and shoot it b/c it`s better than baiting.:eek:

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

At least that is what the New York State Biologist believe...

But maybe your right..what do they know....

;)

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

about as much as the DEC........................................







Nothing :eek:

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

As I said stretch...I guess the biologist, and now that you metion it...the whole DEC dept, really don't know much about these whitetails.

To think that they would seesome difference between hunting over a 2,650,000 sq ft food plot, and hunting over a 100 sq ft bait pile really leaves me dumbfounded as to their stupidity....

Anyone can plainly see how the two situations are nearly identical!

What differencecould there be inshooting over one food plot that is 3 yds long, or another one that is 580 yds long?

Heck 580 yds is a chip shot with my bow and a real piece of cake with my shotguns/muzzleloaders. I must admit though, I did miss once with my rifle at that distance....but hey...rifles aren't even legal where I hunt so that is no big deal, I'll just stick to those chip shots with the bow..



All in good fun....JC

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

I don't find baiting any diffrent than useing scents other than it would be easier to take a deer over a scent mark than food.Would it be illegal to use apple scent to mask your odor or a natural apple cut in 4s and placed in your pocket a couple days before the hunt season?I don't see how it could be any diffrent.In reality your odds wouldn't go up that much on public land.The deer won't move the same when people come into their enviroment.I don't see why 1 would use bait on private property.The deer are allways going to be there withouth the pressure of hunters on opening day and maybe a few extra deer that you haven't seen before that was pushed off public hunting land.Planting deer food is not baiting.It is to increase the antler growth and health of deer.Now to hunt apublic dump for bear would that be considered baiting or natural resource?As far as I know there is not a law on useing stinky old fish for fertilizer for your 10 by 10garden or it was illegal to put apples in your composs bin on your property.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Idecided to started another post with the my response to this issue, this thread is already far enough away from the original discussion

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

You been taking bow leasons from NY Bowhunter? Don`t worry JC I`m looking for more land so i can plant 60 acres or more So I won`t be considered a baiter. Plus when I fish this spring no dam worms on my hook just some clover, I heard it`s better for the fish. :DI really don`t think this thread will ever be settled. If 'Baiting" is legal in your area then do what you like. If "baiting" is illegal then plant food plots. I really don`t care how anyone does it as long as you get out there and hunt. Feel free and enjoy the outdoors.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Only if believing in this qualifies...

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

LMFAO I believe it`s beer thirty.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

FLORIDA
Baiting or Luring: Taking game on lands or waters upon which corn, wheat, grain, food or other substances have been deposited by means other than normal agricultural harvesting or planting is prohibited, except as noted below. In addition to normal agricultural harvesting or planting, mourning and whitewinged doves may be hunted over agricultural crops that have been harvested or manipulated and over natural vegetation that has been manipulated.

• Resident game, other than turkeys, may be hunted in proximity of year round game-feeding stations, provided that feeding stations were established at least six months prior to taking resident game.
• Turkeys may not be taken by baiting or over baited areas; or when the hunter is within 100 yards of a game-feeding station.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Well Rebel Hog that`s interesting since alot of guys on here think "baiters" just put the corn/apples out the day they want to shoot a deer. I could agree with Florida`s laws. Year around feeding. I also don`t see nothing wrong w/ feeding deer during the off season(mostly winter time).

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Stretch are you trying to say that deer won't simply come to the smell of apples if you put them out when you go hunting?

:(

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

I really don`t know how long it would take for the deer to come into the smell of apples.If apple smell is rare to the area I would think it would take them some time to come in, but if apples are in the area anyway they might come right in.When I had the apple scents out I had a doe come right up to the tower I was hunting in and was smelling all over it. I just sat there and watched her. I have no problem just watching deer when I`m huning so no I didn`t use the scent to shoot a deer.:)

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Yeah, all the Wally-World's down here sell the Apple Sent blocks, but it is againist the law to use them!:D:D:D

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

I would question the chicken or the egg on this one...

Meaning, do you think the deer came to the smell to check it out, or was the deer coming to the foodplot then randomly smelled the scent and decided to investigate?

I would certainly think the latter....the knowledge of the bait siteis the reasonit came to the area, then thescent just drew it closer...

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Very good point. I would have to have the apple scent out somewhere there is no plot. Maybe I`ll try next bow season just to see the results.

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

BassPro in Auburn had all kinds of illegal stuff when it opened up. They evan sold bags of corn but since CWD "has been found":eek:I noticed basspro shop pulled all thier attractents. Things that make you go hummmm

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

put a par of panties on a laurel allways draws them in

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Seemsour old boy chicken...ran out of gas...!

(Chicken..if or when, you get a new name let us know its you...):D

RE: Baiting vs. Planting Deer Feed - what's The Difference?
 

Well guys, i have used baiting as a late season way to get more does at time when when needed. But tonight I killed my biggest buck of the year!!. I put some corn out tuesday went back tonight, thursday. I had to coax them across a narrow field to a small woodlot. there are no trees to climb in a huge bedding area. Saw 20 deer. at least 7 bucks. I love that stand but its hard to get em into bow range.. thanks MD for allowing baiting! Nice 8 point! 3 yr old. This was my first hunt in a month!