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NY Conservation Officers

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NY Conservation Officers

Old 12-08-2005, 07:24 AM
  #1  
Boone & Crockett
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Default NY Conservation Officers

Do you think we should have more conservation officers roaming around? I find it odd that I've hunted a ton of different pieces of property in all different regions and have NEVER seen 1 single officer around. Not once driving up and down the roads, not once been checked, not once at the boat launch, etc.....
I know it would cost the taxpayers more money, but come on!! What's the sense of even having any then. I talked to one the other day about a poaching problem I'm having. He pretty much admitted it would be like an act of congress to have anything done. You pretty much need some real hard evidence (video, pictures) for anything to even be implemented. He said they are so thinly spread that it's tough to cover everything. He covers 300 square miles of territory!! How can you monitor anything with one officer covering that much ground?
It just irritates me that I know for a 100% fact of a few poachers around my area. One guy has shot 9 bucks between bow and gun (last I knew a week ago). I could hand this guy on a silver platter to the DEC but there's nothing they can do because they evidently dont' have the manpower.
So what's to stop it from happening? It's pretty easy for someone to shoot as many deer as they want to and just keep hauling them out of the woods and to their garages to butcher. Why even buy a license? If I were a poacher I'd be in heaven. Heck save the $70 and go slay 10 deer a season without any worries.
Maybe it's a regional thing and I'm my hunting area is a little different. But, 17 years in the woods 60-70 days a season between bow and gun without coming across ONE single officer is a little strange.
This isn't another DEC slam because they are doing what they can do with what is given to them. It just bothers me.
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

I think you make an excellent point. To talk to any CO, theyll reluctantly tell you that the dept is so mismanaged right now. Its a combination of things, really. We have an acting commissioner, public sentiment (why, I dont have a clue!) and many other factors. I sure wouldnt know how many they WOULD need though, as theres enough going on out there to warrant an officer literally for every neighborhood.

The COs are reluctant to persue certain complaints until they have, basically, a smoking gun. They have learned through experience that unless they have ALL evidence, and nearly an airtight case, the system wont back them up to the extent it takes to keep someone from beating the charge. Recall the guys arrestedshooting atthe deer decoys, that basically said its NOT illegal to shoot a stuffed deer! Nowadays, the officers make sure the offender is shooting across the road, on private property that the landowner will prosecute, etc. Then theres that word intent...

I try to keep in good standing with the COs I know, as theyre the guys who are at the front, and take all the flack for the dept. I guess I wonder, what IS the solution? Is there even a valid answer?
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:59 AM
  #3  
Fork Horn
 
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

I can remember in high school I interviewed a CO officer for a school project and at that point she was the only one for a whole county. I would like to see either more CO officers or get the state or local PD to help. I would say that the price it would cost vs. the total fines would be less of a difference than most people think.

I also have been hunting for 17 years and have never been checked, I can count on one hand how many times I have see a CO drive right by me.
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:03 PM
  #4  
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

I have only ever been stopped once for liscense check, that was fishing on the pier at sylvan beach, however, every april i see 2-3 vehicles a day, checking Fish Creek for Walleye down the road...
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:47 PM
  #5  
 
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers


Good point NYbowehunter. I believe your right. We need more DEC officers. That got me thinking. I am a firefighter, and some of the local fire departments have one fire investigator in there departments, and they work with the state police in fire investigations. It’s a county wide team but they team up and do the job. Now what if the local PDs and sheriffs and state PDs take a couple conservation courses and team up with the DEC in helping them crack down on poaching or licenses ext ext. Our tax’s our paying them anyway. There either at a motor vehicle crash or, a 911 hang up or, splitting up Medusa and Billy bob form a fight. Why not keep an eye out now and then?

This summer I was stopped on Lamoka Lake for an unregistered john boat. I thought you didn’t need one with an electric trolling motor.

BTBowhunter made a good point in a few other posts. “We need smaller WMU's and we needmore intensive micro management of some areas”. He went on about cold and warm areas. With this team, I think we could see more ground work for the DEC and maybe better judgments about deer herds than some numbers on paper.

I know it sounds too good to be true.

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Old 12-08-2005, 02:00 PM
  #6  
 
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

In the past 10 or so years I have seen a number of them, this past trout opener I saw 6 sitting at a boat launch handing out tickets like candy to anyone with no inspections on their trailers, unlicensed trailers / boats and they had one guy sitting back like the cops do when they have a road side check point in case you turn around. But I have never seen a DEC officer while I was hunting.
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:02 PM
  #7  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

I grew up near a family that was well respected in the community. It was also a well known fact that the father and son would take as many bucks as they would see fit every year.

On one occasion the son showed me the heads and racks of the bucks they had taken just that one year. I counted 24 bucks not including any spikes.

The reason I mention this is the fact that the father was high level New York State Trooper.

You see...where I grew up most people don't take any issue with harvesting more animals than a hunter is licensed for. In fact this family always tagged all their deer, they may not have been their own tags, but you would be surprised how many family and friends tags they had.
The reason no one frowned upon this activity was that this family only hunted in season, and in an otherwise very ethical manner. In fact the only meat theyregularly served at their home was venison.

My point in all of this is simple. There is line that has been drawn in the public view as to what is criminal activity. In the minds ofmany people thisfamilies activities were not criminal. They were simply hunting for their food.

Where the line is drawn between hunting and criminal activity is really the heart of this topic.

If the public really felt that hunters were involved in truelly criminal activities they would demand more CO's. In my opinion the public believes that the government has much better things to do with our tax money then chase hunters for activities that are relatively low level violations and at most have a questionable effect on our overall deer herd.


.........
I want to make it clear I am not condoning illegal hunting here, I am only trying to shed some light on the likely reason our society has not felt the need for more CO's, and why the numbers are unlikely to increase any time in the near future.
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:39 PM
  #8  
 
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

I totally agree. The lack of ECO's in the field is frustrating at the least. Two years ago I caught a poacher red handed dragging a doe out of the woods during theNorthern Zone rifle season. This was the second incident in which I witnessed this guy do this and I tried unsuccessfullyfor 3 days to contact my local ECO to report the incident. When I finally bumped into the ECO at a local conveniant store and told him the details he informedme that he was aware of the individual and had previously ticketed the guy for having a loaded rifle in his truck. I guess that wasn't much of a deterrent was it?

The bottom line and any ECO will admit to it is that they are way under manned which results in a huge area of responsibility. I spent close to 50 days in the field this season and never saw one ECO. It's a crying shame. It's not going to get any better anytime soon either with the mindset in Albany.

Think about it. Over the last decade and probably longer they've seen their ranks thinned, work load increased, not to mention less than fair contracts from the State of New York. Not the kind of treatment that will instill good morale among the ranks is it. Can you blame these guys for not going the extra mile. I'm sure this will rankle some feathers, but I'm sure if you talked to an ECO about this they'd back that statement up.

Mr. .45-70
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Old 12-09-2005, 06:27 AM
  #9  
Boone & Crockett
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

The reason no one frowned upon this activity was that this family only hunted in season, and in an otherwise very ethical manner.
ethical manner??

In the minds ofmany people thisfamilies activities were not criminal. They were simply hunting for their food.
simply hunting for food?? I wonder how much money State Troopers make where they have to hunt to eat.

On one occasion the son showed me the heads and racks of the bucks they had taken just that one year. I counted 24 bucks not including any spikes.
Simply hunting for food? Must be that doe meat is different than buck meat.

Where the line is drawn between hunting and criminal activity is really the heart of this topic.
Where the line is drawn? The line is pretty black and white. Buck tags are non transferable. You only get so many doe tags. You can only take game during legal shooting hours. etc.......... What "line" are you talking about ?

Stories like this make me sick[:'(]
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:10 AM
  #10  
Fork Horn
 
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Default RE: NY Conservation Officers

NY Bowhunter,

You are 100% correct I can't help but wonder if everyone was ok with this because of his job choice. Neither this person or his son are hunters they are poachers. They should have been turned in (like that would have done any good). I feel sorry for the guy down the road that would shoot his one buck/year and have to hear this kind of hunting in his area. In my eyes these people are low lifes, liars, and crooks. These are the kind of so-called hunters that NY has to crack down on. But again just my $0.02
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