RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Blueturk, you and me and Phade hear this same silliness every year, dont we, locally? If folks would just stop once and think through the logistics of these rumors, theyd travel no further. I like how you said "they heard it from someone who heard it from someone"etc etc. Isnt that always how it is? LOL, how true. Oh well, its all interesting, anyways.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Yes, Bill is seems like one of those revolving doors here!

In Nebraska, there had been reports of lions being spotted in a particular area, and it was not known if they were true sightings. A short time later, one was hit by a car, and confirmed by their game staff.

You'd think since we had the hundreds, maybe thousands of sightings every year, one would actually surface itself like it did in Nebraska.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Ohhhhh well that changes everything!! My mind is now open. How terrifying of an experienc that must have been. That is some concrete proof right there dude.

HEY HEY HEY !!! let's keep things in perspective. bigfoot and mountain lions are 2 different issues. mountain lion sightings are far fetched, but I can attest to numerous bigfoot sightings and successful hunts I might add. Let's compare apples to apples here.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

For the people who don't believe that lions could or do or roam in the east are very ignorant. They have done so in the past till hunted to extinction. Why is it impossible for them to do so today? OH,cause you say so,OK. Or are you that ignorant of a wild animals survival skills to excist anywhere it wants to?

Just because you haven't seen any or signs of them or stories from your friends make you correct on them not being around. Lions are very elusive animals,even out west. Without dogs to hunt them very few would be harvested or even observed in the wild. There is estimated 41,000 lions in the western states.How elusive they are. And if there was even 5 to 10 in the eastern states,only by chance do people see them.

Very ignorant and disrespectful to animals,Are the people who underestimate the survival and migration of a wild animals.Especially for predators like yotes and lions.

It's the same as yotes in eastern state.If they can migrate down from Canada and make theire home here in NY and Pa. Why can't a lion from the west with an estimated population of 41,000 migrate here and take up resident here also? I forgot because some people say they can't. How ignorant you are.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

And these 5 to 10 account for the hundreds of 2nd and 3rd hand sightings, rumors, and shot attempts thet never connect. And in spite of these hundreds of reports, there are no photos, tracks, remains or even partial remains.

As far as migration: I believe animals like coyotes EXPANDED their range. Lions would probably do the same. I find it hard to believe 5 to 10 would decide to "migrate" 2000 miles from the west and just pass thru all the states in between just to end up in NY.

You are pretty new here - do a search on this topic. You may find reasons for the doubt you see on this thread - this is not the 1st time it has been around. Then try joining the discussion without the feeble attempts at insulting.

Just my ignorant opinion.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I have no doubts about them being here or in other states from east to west. What would yousay telling them they are lieing. Insulting also. Do a search on each state and I promise you everyone has lion sightings.

But yes you are ignorant for not believeing they could exsist here in the wild. You seen that video. That was a lion. Released or migrated it is still a lion. That is some proof that they do roam here in the east. What about officials in NY believe they are here also. Well bad source.BUSH had WMD in Iraq.

Like I said,It's disrespect to the ability of a wild animal to survive here. When you disrespect a animal especially a lion that has skills to be elusive and survive is ignorant. And for the carcass and tracks. I didn't say there was 41,000 in the eastern state. I said there could be 5 to 10 of them in the eastern states. Put a needle in a haystack and see if you can find it.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Do any of these sightings show any verifiable evidence - or just the same general claims as here?

I have never said anyone was lying. Just questioned why with hundreds of reports, nobody has shown us even one piece of verifiable evidence to support their claims. If doubting a highly questionable claim is insulting, then someone has pretty thin skin.

Post some real proof - this is your chance to demonstrate who is ignorant. A wise person calling everyone who disagrees with him ignorant must have something to back his claim? Show us your wisdom.

And I am not sure what Iraq has to do with alleged lion sightings in NY - must be my ignorance.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I could have a 1000 pictures of lions and hrs of video with a vets statement saying thisdeerwaskilled by a large cat. You or anyone else who don't believe they roam the eastern states will still deny it until an official has seen the cat for themselves and verified it.There was one killed by a hunter in 1969 in Pa. and the GPC reported it as a released pet. I am not goanna even try to convence anyone who doesn't believe that they are here. But people who understand nature and how things occur over time know it is very much possible that they do excist here.

About Iraq. Why would you take the words of officials for sightings and beliefs and find out there never was such a thing. WMD

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I have heard all of this and talked to some DEC guys who were in checking tags and ages at my brothers deer cutting operation. They kind of laughed at the young men who were blabbing to them about mountain lions. It's easy to tell if you see the tracks in the mud. A mountain lions tracks are bigger than a bobcats tracks, lets just say they are3-1/3 inches across or greater. A bobcats tracks will be between 2 to 2-1/2 inches across, if you see the tracks just pull out some string or whatever you have on youand lay it across the track and mark it and then go get a rule andmeasure it. I know there are bobcats here but I am very skeptical of there being any mountain lions around here. I won't say that it is impossible because we had a good sized alligator in the river here this year that someone had for a pet and let it go or it escaped. Maybe someone had a mountain lion for a pet and let it go or it escaped who knows. But that would be the only way in my opinion that one wouldbe here now.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I live in Deleware and to all who don't believe they are here in the east.

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/delaware_cougar_confirmations.htm

What other proof do you want other than to see them with your 2 eyes?
It is confirmed that they are here roaming the eastern states.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

So BB has no proof to share.

Krockus - I read your link. The DNREC stated their believe but did not post or share one bit of their "evidence". Still waiting for the definitive proof.

Also Delaware isseveral hundred miles from western NY. Do BB's 5 to 10 migrated animals make the trip back and forth regularly?

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

It is neither "ignorant" nor "closed minded" to expect verifiable evidence for the existence of mountain lions in P.A., N.Y. or whatever state you want to talk about. Verifiable evidence is what intelligent non-ignorant people use as a standard. It is truly ignorant to be completely convinced of their existence here based solely on testimonials. BTW, I don't believe any of the "non-believers" said it is "impossible" but rather find it highly unlikelyand until there is far more substantial evidence than there is, we're just not buying it. You know, there is just as much verifiable physical evidence for the existence ofpolar bears andcaribou inN.Y. and P.A as there is for mountain lions.Zero.

When it is reported by some "reputable" source that they exist here, I'll buy in but not until. BTW, if its so clear they are here, why is it that not 1 university, DEC, or fish and game comission on either a state or federal level will confirm their existence here? Oh yea, the conspiracy... I fogot.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

any pictures?

Actually just one will do. Have any??

Come one dude............. they even have footage and pictures of Bigfoot for crying out loud.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

From the NYS DEC webpage.

The Eastern Cougar, or Mountain Lion, is listed as an endangered species in New York. This animal was historically present in the state but has been absent since the late 1800s, except for a few that are kept in captivity under a special permit. Officially, cougars are considered extirpated from the state. However, sightings of animals believed to be cougars are commonly reported to the regional wildlife office.
Black panthers are color variations of the jaguar from South America or the leopard from Asia, but sightings of such animals are also reported in New York occasionally. The fisher, a resident New York furbearer, is often mistaken for and reported as a black panther.
Evidence Needed
To date, no hard evidence has been produced that would prove the existence of cougars living in the wild in New York . . . no tracks, scat, dead cougars, photos, videos, or audio tapes. If you believe that you have seen a cougar, please check for tracks or other signs that have been left by the animal. If possible, photograph the animal. A sighting report form is available from DEC's Region 8 Wildlife Unit to record your sighting, or one can be printed off our website with Acrobat Reader (Cougar Sighting Form).
Wildlife staff will only investigate reports where some evidence exists, other than a visual sighting, or when a captive animal has been reported to have escaped.
Email Rumors
Staff has been responding to forwarded email's regarding unfounded rumors about cougars.
Examples of these email's are as follows:
[ul][*]a photo of a cougar stalking a mule deer (NYS has only white-tailed deer)[*]three photos of a cougar-one peering into a glass door, two with snowflakes falling around them[*]two photos of a man posing with a HUGE cougar (actually from the state of Washington) [/ul]
All are claiming to have originated in some town in New York State, but they don't. Please don't forward them.
A popular tale, but not true . . .
Rumors have been circulating for the past few years that the DEC has released cougars to control deer populations. Some of these rumors claim that Officer 'Jones' participated in the release, or that people have actually seen cougars with ear tags or neck collars, so they must have been released by the State. This is not true. The DEC has never released cougars, despite what you may hear to the contrary.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Great post NYBowhunter!

Look guys, you either have to accept what the DEC and many other reputable sources have to say or you have to believe in a huge conspiracy by universites, wildlife agences, newspapers etc. to hide the truth. And some of you have the nerve to say I'm closed minded? Give me a break. If you want to be associated with the nut cases andconspiracy theorists be my guest. At least you're entertaining!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

tell that to the , like, 3,000 plus joggers, hikers and small children that are eaten out there EVERY MONTH by state-sponsored cougars!!!!!!!!!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Like I said,if there are mountain lions out there some dummy that had one for a pet let it get out. The "officials" in Delaware even state that in the post that was put up. Like I said it is simple, if you see a cougar they leave tracks. Go measure the tracks, call the DEC they WANT you too. I can just say this you better have your "facts" straight when you do call them or they just may get a little upset. Where I work we have about 800 employess. Someone at one end of the factorycould cut their finger and put a bandaid on it and tell someone about it. By the time the story got all the way to the other end of the shop through word of mouth from person to person the 800th guy would get this story. " Did you hear that Joe got his arm caught in a machine and it pulled it in and ripped it off at the shoulder. They got the blood to stop and he is going to live but his arm is gone". Rumors are nothing but BS and the people who listen to them are the "ignorant ones". :):D

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

http://www.ngpc.state.ne.us/wildlife/mountainlion.asp



The images above show front tracks. Mountain lion front tracks are 3" to 4 1/4" long and 3 1/4" to 4 3/4" wide. Claws usually do not register because they are retracted. Claw marks are usually (but not always) visible in coyote and dog tracks. The heal pad in cat tracks has two lobes in the front and three lobes in the back, while dog and coyote tracks show only one lobe in the front and two lobes in the back. The tracks from a small mountain lion and a large bobcat can be difficult to distinguish.

It amazes me that with 600,000 deer hunters and who knows how many trail cams in this state no one can produce a "real" picture of one. We really must be the close minded and ignorant ones. A large male has to make a kill about every ten days but not one kill sitre. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM???????????????????

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

It's funny Sylvan has the ability to post range maps found on the internet ........is from about 1910 but aint got the ability to look that up.

Sylvan, notice on your map that the entire state of arkasas is part of the range ...... but yet only in past year or two did arkansas state they now have a possible small population......

Why do you guys always show links and maps that are like 80 years old. This aint 80 years ago this is now.

As far as cougars coming from the north..... a bit more recent map for ya from past ten years ....not 80 years ago.

http://www.ontariopuma.ca/sightings.htm


Some also wanted a map of sightings with reputable scientist/proffessors backing it(notice no range in louisiana or arkansas like in Sylvans outdated 1910 map)

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/bigpicture.html


and if you follow that one notice all the dots up around nova scotia .... all those have been added in last 6 monthes. And if you guys can't take the time to read it ..... blue dots are confirmed by DNA, actual photos, actual proof, red dots are highly probably secondary proof, scat, tracks.

Notice the new blue dot at the Vt,NH, Mass intersection....... every month they add more dots. I know you non believers need to see the proof and not take the word of long lived DNR officials, police,and scientists.

Some asked about DNA proof. How about

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/MIconfirm2-05.htm

I suppose they are lieing cuz they didn't post the results sheet of the actual test. Most be some the DNR official are working on that conspiracy stuff.

Someone also brought up the point that some these locations are 100 miles apart.

http://www.keloland.com/News/NewsDetail4514.cfm?ID=22,36765

that's what only about 450+ miles.


and if it's not one roaming ..... only one other reason .... it aint just one.


I know ...... that eastern cougar net website and all the scientists, wildlife officials, college professors that make up that organization and website are all lieing and just spreading stories. We all know that these retired DNR officials and college proffessors and conspiracy artists.

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/FieldReportIowa10-03.htm

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/News-Leader_com%20%20True%20Ozarks%20%20Cougars%20are%2 0here,%20but%20difficult%20to%20find,%20track.htm

interesting about using the river ways as travel corridors ...... um susquehana..... as well as all the other big rivers we have throughout the state.

All this info says they are spreading, they are moving. if you take the time to do some digging for recent news and events it's there.

Wisconson and michigain DNR's have both recently admitted that they most likely have a small breading populations. Don't take my word for it .... they have computers and emails where you "could" email officials of any state you want ..... if you want to know for yourselves.

But we know you truely do not want to and that is too much burden for you to take upon yourselves to do.

They all can't be released pets, and they are there.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

nice little video for you guys .... it's from montana.

http://www.huntingfootage.com/showphoto.php?photo=1111&sort=1&cat=520&am p;page=5

click on the picture and the video will download.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

NY an Pa DEC/DNR have only recently(past 6 monthes or so) changed their tones towards these reported cougar sightings in our area.

They have gotten enough from credible people where they are actually starting to investigate the possibility of cougars in our area a bit more.

If you happen to see a cougar in NY or PA I urge you to stay aware, mark the locations, take time to look, watch, listen and then physically try to find any tracks. If you feel daring ..... follow it. Use caution.

Cast the tracks or picture them with something in photo for size.

The states are now asking for reports

For NY

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/reg8/wild/cougar.html

Click the link part way down and file it.

Not totally sure in Pa but here is a start contact for you in Pa at the bottom of the article.

http://www.tiogapublishing.com/articles/2005/07/28/outdoors/outdoors02.txt

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Don't make me laugh NY Outdoors. Just look at the source you used. Easterncourgarnet for heavens sake. Do you really think they are unbiased? Get real. Like I said, until there are REPUTABLE sources verifying the existence of cougars here no thinking person is going to buy it. Why doesn't the DEC or SUNY or the PGC or the FWC or ANY reputable source back you up? Please call any one of these and ask them if there are wild cougars in NY or PA. If they don't laugh at you I'm sure you will get a polite answer telling you that there simply is NO EVIDENCE for them. Didn't you read what NY Bowhunter posted from the DEC? Why do they say that there isn't any evidence? Oh yea I keep forgetting the conspiracy...

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Sylvan, I spoke to those people from the silly cougar project awhile back. A very "interesting" chat indeed. To talk to them, you might think you overheard Elvis talking to Bigfoot in the background. NOTHING is true, its all phoney. Youd think they thought XFiles was a real show. They were nice, no doubt, but bordering on...well, you get what Im saying.

You know, back when I didnt know anyone, or have doors opened to me, it was so nice to be naive and to assume things. Nowadays, I read all the silly hunting rags and papers from NY state, etc, anyone with a laptop and an extra half hour at lunch (expert) and its such BS. People will print anything they can get their hands on, no substantiating, no nothing. It was the same with the CWD issue over the summer. I have lost all respect and interest in most of the printed crap because of it, too. Example, will finding a paw print from a lion, or a "reliable" sighting make that lion wild, native, and prospering? It will still be questionable, as we have already beat to death the escaped captive issue already.

Sylvan, Im with you. I wish they WERE here, naturally and wild, but I doubt it.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Bill Yox, sadly not everyone is like you and bothers to question or take the time to check what they read or hear. They're quick to believe something espcecially if they WANT to believe it. I'm like you in that I would love for there to be wild mountain lions here. I'm also like you in that if I'm honest with myself I just can't buy it.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

This is one of my favorite posts to check on. About two months ago a friend of mine told me, that someone told him, that someone he knows (seems like it is always third party) got a camtrakker picture of a mountain lion. This guy said that he saw the picture and it was a mountain lion for sure. I askedmy friendto find out who has the picture because I have to see it. Two months go by and I ask my friend about the picture and Of course it turns out it was a picture of a bobcat.Doesn't that figure.

my site: WWW.PBASE.COM/MLO3135127 and WWW.WILDTURKEY.SMUGMUG.COM

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

The Cougar Network??

Good God dude!!!!! I knew there were people that were slightly delusional with the mountain lion sighting in NY, but WOW this takes the cake. Good luck in your quest. Be sure to post pics when you get one on your trail cam.
Can you answer me something please? Do you find it the least bit odd that there are hundreds of thousands of hunters in the woods. Who knows how many trail cameras. Thousands of people fishing rivers and streams. Not ONE single picture or video of a mountain lion in NY. Does that ever cross your mind as being a bit odd if there were mountain lions in NY??

Charlie P......
I can't thank you enough for that link. I'll feel so much safer walking into the woods tommorow. Now I know what to do in case of an attack. Of course shooting it would be the first thing to come to my mind. I'd better not take a shot at one though, Elvis may be in the background and I'd hate to kill him too.
.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I as a Pa. resident have heard many stories about lion sightings also. I never seen any or heard stories from close friends who have encountered any. One of my best friend is to my beliefs is one of the best trappers in Pa. We talked about it once and he spends more time in the outdoors than anyone I know.He has never came across any tracks at all of lions.Believe me he is always looking for signs of critters to trap. I am not saying they are nothere or they are here I am just opened minded to the subject.
But I would have to say if there was any here or in NY the trappers would know of this. I for one if was a trapper and seen signs of one.I would try to catch it in a trap to prove it. I believe this would be the only way to confirm it.I don't think one would get in trouble if accidently caught one in a foot trap. But I don't see it happening in the near future. LOL I usually say that and it does happen though. LOL

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Wasn't the guy from the cougar network afraid to let his kids play outside and ride his horses?

NYbowhunter no problem, I'll be in the middle of about 21,000 acres on Saturday,but luckily I still have my communicator so I can call for another "scotty beam me up" if I see a Cougar.

You me politely asking the lion to stop isn't an option?