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-   -   NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/northeast/118612-ny-do-u-think-we-should-have-antler-restrictions.html)

BOWTECH2765 10-27-2005 08:01 PM

NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions??

Phade 10-27-2005 09:43 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
No.

But it will certainly be a fight in the near future, with Ulster County getting the test study.

Rwalter63 10-27-2005 11:32 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
No, No and more NO's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MACHINIST 10-28-2005 06:29 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I would like to see it happen.I think it would do good things.I like the idea of the pilot program and wished it happened here.I know that everyone isnt after the horns but it is one of the reasons I like to hunt.Just my 2 cents dont beat me up to bad.

SteveBNy 10-28-2005 07:01 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

livbucks 10-28-2005 07:25 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Oh boy! It will be a painful process getting the "Dyed in the wool" folks to accept it. Within a few short years though, you guys will be experiencing buck hunting like you never dreamed. Well worth the wait. All you will be giving up is a spike or forkie per every 5 hunters or so for the first two years. A very good bargain! The "herd reduction" part will ruffle some feathers so, don't go too far with that part of it.

jpm8920 10-28-2005 07:37 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I would love to see it implemented, but where I hunt in the Catskills, I don't think that the locals would adhere to it. They would keep shooting the smaller bucks as we pass year after year. If the DEC could beef up the # of game wardens, then I would say definitely yes.

Rick James 10-28-2005 08:24 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I would love to see it. I don't necessarily want to see herd reduction though like what has happened in many parts of PA, I would rather see the effort put into habitat improvement than HR. I would focus more of my time on hunting NY if these things wereimplemented.

nybowhunter 10-28-2005 08:40 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I'm ok with it during gun but not during archery.

SteveBNy 10-28-2005 09:12 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Some reasons for no in the area I hunt and my opinion:

1 - a large % of 3 per side you see are 1 1/2 yo - antler res would still allow these.

2 - See a lotof the spikes and forkies taken here that are older than above - these would be protected.

3 - Deer do not reach their true potential until at least 4 1/2 yo. That 2 1/2 yo 8 pt scoring 95 is still a YOUNG deer. Under antler res it is a "trophy". A young deer is a young deer. How is it right for someone who gets outs 3 times a year to have to pass up a 4 pt 1 1/2 yo so someone else can shoot it next year as that 8 pt scoring 95?

4 - A large number (I think) of those still buying hunting licenses are more casual hunters - they enjoy getting out with their friends and families a few times, like to see some deer, and have a reasonable chance to take one. And now there are many WMU with few or no doe permits. Hunter numbers are dropping every year - a trend AR may serve to accelerate among these hunters I described. Most hunters I talk to around her like to hunt DEER - sure seeing a big rack is nice, BUT NOT the motivating factor for them to hunt!

The recent trend to qualify a "good" deer by the number of points and to have that become the reason for hunting is disturbing at best. I was in a shop recently where a "trohy" hunter was coming down hard on a guy who had taken a spike. Thing is, this "trophy" hunter is the one who had taken that monster 8pt scoring 95 a few days earlier! His reason - " it was a better deer and would probably have got shot during gun"!

"Better" is a subjective term and differs for everyone! To make a law to benefit the "trophy" hunter happy with the 2 1/2 yo 8 point scoring 95 or even less, is wrong in my opinion

We keep losing numbers and we lessen our voice!

Education and personal responsibility is the way to allow mature deer to evolve. Keep pushing for hunters to learn to allow young deer to walk. And if you truly believe in the goal to have more big bucks, resolve to only shoot MATURE bucks, Not the 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 nice 10 points with potential. It stats with YOU.

Steve





SPIKEHORN11 10-28-2005 09:51 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I have mixed feelings but would lean towards NO. I think we would loose alot of hunters that are just fet up with taking a deer now. Alot of us have had those years where you don't take anything and just wanna sell your gear cause your just sick of it. My grandfather hasn't taken a deer in I don't know how many years but I would hate to see the restriction in place when he finally has a shot at a deer and can't cause it is a spike.

pjarrows 10-28-2005 10:02 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
YES, YES, YES, and YES

Phade 10-28-2005 10:25 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: SteveBNy

Some reasons for no in the area I hunt and my opinion:

1 - a large % of 3 per side you see are 1 1/2 yo - antler res would still allow these.

2 - See a lotof the spikes and forkies taken here that are older than above - these would be protected.

3 - Deer do not reach their true potential until at least 4 1/2 yo. That 2 1/2 yo 8 pt scoring 95 is still a YOUNG deer. Under antler res it is a "trophy". A young deer is a young deer. How is it right for someone who gets outs 3 times a year to have to pass up a 4 pt 1 1/2 yo so someone else can shoot it next year as that 8 pt scoring 95?

4 - A large number (I think) of those still buying hunting licenses are more casual hunters - they enjoy getting out with their friends and families a few times, like to see some deer, and have a reasonable chance to take one. And now there are many WMU with few or no doe permits. Hunter numbers are dropping every year - a trend AR may serve to accelerate among these hunters I described. Most hunters I talk to around her like to hunt DEER - sure seeing a big rack is nice, BUT NOT the motivating factor for them to hunt!

The recent trend to qualify a "good" deer by the number of points and to have that become the reason for hunting is disturbing at best. I was in a shop recently where a "trohy" hunter was coming down hard on a guy who had taken a spike. Thing is, this "trophy" hunter is the one who had taken that monster 8pt scoring 95 a few days earlier! His reason - " it was a better deer and would probably have got shot during gun"!

"Better" is a subjective term and differs for everyone! To make a law to benefit the "trophy" hunter happy with the 2 1/2 yo 8 point scoring 95 or even less, is wrong in my opinion

We keep losing numbers and we lessen our voice!

Education and personal responsibility is the way to allow mature deer to evolve. Keep pushing for hunters to learn to allow young deer to walk. And if you truly believe in the goal to have more big bucks, resolve to only shoot MATURE bucks, Not the 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 nice 10 points with potential. It stats with YOU.

Steve




I about just dropped dead there. The thought of me agreeing with Steve...oh.my.gosh.:D

I think AR is not to be done on a gov't level. It's a personal choice.



tj_cubin 10-28-2005 10:31 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
nope
it swould be the same scenario as me passing on a 4 pt now. it will walk onto the next guys property and get taken anyway. people around me wont adhere to those laws, and i dont want to get busted by a deer standing broadside because i cant see if it has a brow tine or not. Antlers are antlers to me, and if i dont shoot a buck, it will get shot the enxt day anyway. If everyone that hunt would agree to it, i would consider, but its too unreasonable

EatsLead 10-28-2005 12:47 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I like the idea of bigger bucks but I am not a huge fan of antler restrictions. Ohio has lots of good bucks and I don't think they have antler restrictions. I know the have a 1 buck/year limit. What else are they doing right?

jf5 10-28-2005 01:03 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: SPIKEHORN11

I have mixed feelings but would lean towards NO. I think we would loose alot of hunters that are just fet up with taking a deer now. Alot of us have had those years where you don't take anything and just wanna sell your gear cause your just sick of it. My grandfather hasn't taken a deer in I don't know how many years but I would hate to see the restriction in place when he finally has a shot at a deer and can't cause it is a spike.
I hear allot of guys complain of too many hunters in the woods in NY as it is. Maybe this will make them happy. (I'd love to hunt NY, AR or not..just looking for the right areas)

Off course you need to keep the numbers of hunters up to keep support for the sport.

The thing is, if AR is implemented, there are plenty of does for the "can't eat the horns" group to take. If they just want meat and don't care about horns, dosn't thisstill allow them a great opportunity to fill the freezer?? All the while protecting young bucks for the horn hunters??

Deleted User 10-28-2005 03:52 PM

[Deleted]
 
[Deleted by Admins]

SteveBNy 10-28-2005 04:38 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

I about just dropped dead there. The thought of me agreeing with Steve...oh.my.gosh.:D
Actually wrote this to support you on the buck you shot:D
Got one like him last year.
Steve

jcchartboy 10-28-2005 04:52 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

NYBowhunter said:

I'm ok with it during gun but not during archery.
huh?....

That sounds like a biologically sound management decision...:eek:

Phade 10-28-2005 06:07 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: SteveBNy


I about just dropped dead there. The thought of me agreeing with Steve...oh.my.gosh.:D
Actually wrote this to support you on the buck you shot:D
Got one like him last year.
Steve
That buck was actually a 2.5 yr old believe it or not. Hetipped the scale at 165lbs. fielddressed.The farmers have kept track of him since summer. I'm glad I got him out of the gene pool. 2.5's are 8's here, anything less, and I bag it. Last year, he was a three point, with one long spike on his left, and a fork on the right.

But, I take just as much pride in that buck than I do any buck, including a B&C or P&Y.

Man...this is a first. I guess you were right, we do have some ideas in common.:)

SteveBNy 10-28-2005 06:59 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Probably more in common than not. Didn't post on the other thread but nice deer. Now get the big one!
Perfect example of one of the faults of trying to tie QDM with AR. A buck like that would have a free pass to keep passing on those genetics while the basket 8 pt 90 class gets wacked. Not sure why more cannot understand whats wrong with that picture.
Good hunting
Steve

gassygordo 10-28-2005 07:15 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Yep, Git-R-Done! I'm for it! Been doin it for years anyway!

thesource 10-28-2005 07:16 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: jf5
The thing is, if AR is implemented, there are plenty of does for the "can't eat the horns" group to take. If they just want meat and don't care about horns, dosn't thisstill allow them a great opportunity to fill the freezer?? All the while protecting young bucks for the horn hunters??
Actually, there are NOT plenty of does. NY is rebuilding and doe permits have been cut by a lot, especially in the southern tier.

I usually see at least one bruiser a year during bow season, if I'm patient and wait for it. I don't often get of course, but I see it.:)

My opinion? Pass on the small ones to get a big one, but don't prevent those who think a forkie is a big one from getting their trophy.

Phade 10-28-2005 07:32 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: thesource

Pass on the small ones to get a big one, but don't prevent those who think a forkie is a big one from getting their trophy.
Ok, there it is. Perfect wording. Let this thread die.

maytom 10-29-2005 04:27 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Yes I do!!! It would allow the smaller bucks to get larger!! Keep shooting all the spikesand crotch horn bucks, then don't complain about not seeing any bucks with some good size racks.

SteveBNy 10-29-2005 05:50 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Maytom - so that 90 class basket 8 pt that is a YOUNG 2 1/2 yo is a shooter to you?
How about some of the many 6, 7 and 8 pt baskets I saw last I saw last year? Shooters? Not spikes or crotch horn so must be.
How about the 2.5 crotch Phade took? AR would have protected him.
Counting points alone is NOT the way to MATURE deer!



Steve

livbucks 10-29-2005 10:19 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Well, let me tell you...
I was at a deer processor today and GEEEESH!
There were HUGE bucks there (From PA)
There was two bucks in particular that had racks with base mass that was incredible. Two huge 8 points and several huge 10 points.
We are in our third year of AR here.
I NEVER saw this caliber of buck at a butcher and now consider it common.

BTBowhunter 10-30-2005 04:29 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Livbucks is right. The difference in our bucks has been dramatic.

If NY is indded headed toward AR it has the opportunity to learn from PA's mistakes. The big key is to use smaller management units and tobetter regulatethe accompanying herd reduction (and yes, AR needs some HR to work).

Pa's bucks are better but at a great cost to some of our hunters who still hunt the north central traditional deer woods. Suport AR and you wont be sorry but do your best to make sure they avoid a one size fits all approach to HR.



mlo3135127 10-30-2005 06:34 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
100% FOR IT. www.pbase.com/mlo3135127

Sylvan 10-30-2005 09:06 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
NO!

SteveBNy 10-30-2005 09:12 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Ok - you all have convinced me. Lets go to a 3pt min per side. This will protect the deer like the 2.5 yo fork Phade took.

Then we all can get a crack at the basket 1.5 and 2.5 6 and 8 pt's - 90 class or lower - doesn't matter - I got me a "better" buck look, its an 8 pt. Never mind these young deer had the most potential to become outstanding bucks.

This will allow all those spikes and fork's to maybe mature. Then in only 3 years, the only racks coming in for mounts will be huge.

OR

We could try to educate hunters along the line of QDM principles.
Things like balancing the B/D ratio's and taking MATURE bucks. Hint - a mature buck is NOT a 2.5 basket 8 pt! Take the genetically inferior OLDER spikes and forks out. In a few years we would start to see a REAL difference.

Steve




Chasam60 10-30-2005 03:14 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: nybowhunter

I'm ok with it during gun but not during archery.
Why? With a 40+ day season and prime time(during rut) do bow hunters need anymore advantage over gun hunters?

Charlie

jf5 11-01-2005 09:07 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: thesource


ORIGINAL: jf5
The thing is, if AR is implemented, there are plenty of does for the "can't eat the horns" group to take. If they just want meat and don't care about horns, dosn't thisstill allow them a great opportunity to fill the freezer?? All the while protecting young bucks for the horn hunters??
Actually, there are NOT plenty of does. NY is rebuilding and doe permits have been cut by a lot, especially in the southern tier.

I usually see at least one bruiser a year during bow season, if I'm patient and wait for it. I don't often get of course, but I see it.:)

My opinion? Pass on the small ones to get a big one, but don't prevent those who think a forkie is a big one from getting their trophy.
I see more does in NY than all of New ENgland combined, and I spend very little time in NY. I fished in NY this weekend and saw 11 does Sunday night alone. I guess its all relative to what "alot of does" is. But my mainpoint was there are way to get venison w/o shooting spikes.

I do understand what you mean though...

nybowhunter 11-03-2005 05:49 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Chasam60...if you can not recognize the diffence between bow hunting and gun there is no reason to even start a intelligent conversation regarding antler restriction.

Chasam60 11-03-2005 04:03 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
NY-I probably should have mentioned that I hunt only muzzleloader. My tag is the same as yours.Buck or doe with certain WMU's buck only.I have one shot and 7 days in northern zone,9 days in southern zone. The real question is why no antler restriction on bow hunters?

Charlie

SteveBNy 11-03-2005 05:58 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I am a bowhunter 1st - use an inline in gun and mz. I am against antler restrictions, but if they where implimented would support same rules for gun or bow.

Steve



Chasam60 11-03-2005 06:45 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Steve-I live in Binghamton only 5 miles from PA. I work with a lot of people who hunt deer in Pa. While most were dead set against restrictions at first,most now agree that it is working as planned.I am a little put out over the defeat of the early muzzleloader season in the southern zone.The bow hunters in New York are a very organized group,obviously with a lot of political clout in Albany.I have nothing against bowhunting as a sport,but when you can hunt with a bow from 27Sep to 31Dec.and claim that giving up 7 days hunting time to muzzleloaders,will seriously harm your chances,it just makes me wonder.That is why I asked the question.how much more advantage do bow hunters want?

Charlie

SteveBNy 11-03-2005 07:18 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Charlie - I think I agreed with you on the no added advantage - as a bowhunter and and a NYBH member:).

On another note, if you are going to count all gun season as huntable with a bow - you need to count it as huntable with a mz also - not just 7 and 9 days. And it is definately a lot easier to take a deer with a mz during gun then it is with a bow. And neither bow/mz tag can be use during gun.

I don't want to start the early mz debate again, but I will use my Omega or White for 32 days of gun season in the southern zone (23 gun - 9 mz) - plenty of opportunity for me to fill the freezer.

Steve

Chasam60 11-03-2005 09:13 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Steve-You are absolutely right about regular season.I should have made myself more clear.I do use ML during the regular season.The 31 Dec closing dates are for the archery only counties downstate. The only reason I don't hunt with a bow is I don't have the time to do it right.Most good bowhunters I know practice,scout and do it right.They also hate the guys who shoot a dozen arrows 2 days before season opens and go out and miss or wound a deer. They arethe ones who give bowhunters a bad rep. ie.gun hunters "cleaning up the wounded deer from bow season" That to me in BS.There are a lot more bad gun hunters than bow hunters. I prefer one well placed shot and the challenge of only having that one shot.

Charlie

SteveBNy 11-04-2005 03:31 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Charlie - Lots we agree on!

Steve


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