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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Mandate ARs for bow season only. For the following reasons:
1.) Those who are avid bowhunters tend to be advocates of ARs, whereas, those who typically only get out a few days of the year during gun season, don't wish to see it. Since bowhunters want it, give it to them. 2.) Bowhunters already have an unfair advantage over the gun hunters with lengthy seasons during prime rut time when the deer are least disturbed. 3.) The bucks are too spooked during gun season and go noctunal so you will not have to worry about gun hunters killing all the young bucks that you pass up during archery. 4.) I don't bow hunt. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Since when bow hunting was easer than gun hunting, HAHAHA? And where I come from us bow hunters cry when gun season opens because the rut normally hits full swing by the time gun season opens. If you where a bow hunter you would no that.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I never said bowhunting was simpler, I stated that bowhunters have an unfair advantage because their season is too long on game that is not yet spooked.
I do know for a fact, a lot more deer in my neck of the woods are wounded by bowhunters than gun hunters. I know this one hunter, who bowhunts all the time and practices all year, even part of a league. He shot a bear this year on my land that weighed over 400 lbs. and he took a nice sized 7 pointer. He also hit a spike buck that we tracked forever and never found. He hit a doe that we never found and he hit a 4 pointer that we never found. All in one year. I know several other bowhunters who lost game. In defense of them, they took good shots, but deer don't always go down. Some of you may say those hit deer have a good chance of recovering. I say, they may, and they may not make it. Especially with the coyotes in the area. Bottomline: Bowhunting is harder than gun hunting, but due to the long season, they have much more opportunities than gun hunters have on undisturbed deer. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Those who are avid bowhunters tend to be advocates of ARs, whereas, those who typically only get out a few days of the year during gun season, don't wish to see it. Bowhunters already have an unfair advantage over the gun hunters with lengthy seasons during prime rut time when the deer are least disturbed The bucks are too spooked during gun season and go noctunal so you will not have to worry about gun hunters killing all the young bucks that you pass up during archery. Bottomline: Bowhunting is harder than gun hunting, but due to the long season, they have much more opportunities than gun hunters have on undisturbed deer. I do know for a fact, a lot more deer in my neck of the woods are wounded by bowhunters than gun hunters. I could say this means that gun hunters wound more then bow in "my neck of the woods". But I won't because slob hunters can use any weapon to be irresponsible - neither gun or bow have a monopoly on this. We need to get back to the topic - continuing this will do us no good. And I (primarily a bowhunter) agree with you on NO to mandatory AR. Steve |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Steve, I read that web site twice in the last week. And I do agree that every wmu is different. I also disagree with some of there practices. Our population down here in 8Y would support AR. I no this because we have been working with QDM in the past 3-4 years on our private lands and are seeing the effects of the buck and doe ratio. We sure have not complained about our herd. And we sure have not let the DEC affect our herd. 8Y is popular for high herd numbers but were down, not vanished like others. I know there are a lot of other hunters in some wmu that have some population problems. And im sure AR wouldn’t work in those areas. You simply first need deer before you grow deer. That’s why I would go for ARs in our wmu 8Y.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Just a thought. Here is a copied quote from a 14 year old boy in PA on AR and youthhunt.
"i think it is fair because it lets bucks grow bigger and have more poits so there is a lot more trophy buck potential around your area. Plus it lets the smaller bucks survive to maturity and have normal sized racks and bodies. i am stil a junior hunter so i have the choice to shoot smaller bucks with less than the 4 points to one antler rule. thats why i was able to harvest tht 5 point hunting peensylvania has been a great expierience for me." |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I think AR will make hunting better. The problem is INFORCING IT.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Bottomline: Bowhunting is harder than gun hunting, but due to the long season, they have much more opportunities than gun hunters have on undisturbed deer. [/quote] Agreed Cat. Bow hunting does allow for a hunting of deer that for the most part are undisturbed. You have just identified another benefit of AR... it is called hunting for deer that have not all been shot at. This would require deer hunters to shoot only at deer that they have identified as being legal versus blasting everything brown in the woods. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Couldn't agree with you more.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I am a fulltime student at alfred university
I dont see what the big deal is about, y shouldnt there be antler restrictions. with me being from PA, i do alot of hunting here, but in the past 3 years since PA has had antler restrictions,between my dad and I we have killed 1 6 point, 1 7 point, and 4 8 points! alot of people dont realize that if they dont shoot the FIRST buck that comes along often times there will be a bigger one behind it. i have never heard so much complaining about not seeing any deer, people are just to lazy and wont get off their 4 wheelers and sit for a while or even walk somewheres. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Welcome to the forms John! And I will say that I completely agree with you.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
:D
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Stretch,
You posted in the wrong thread.... Ibelieve you meant to post that guy in the "other" 20 pg thread;) |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
My theory is being proven... here is hunterjohn, a person who is a fulltime student favoring ARs... I bet he had a long break between classes to hunt, probably private land also. How about us hunters who have to work for a living and spend time with the family and can only get out once a week to hunt? If I see a buck I should be able to legally shoot it. Shooting does in my area isn't going to help the herd none. By the way hunterjohn, I get off my azz when I hunt and usually spend the whole day when I get a day to hunt. I own a small 60 acres lot and I don't let anyone with 4 wheelers on it. Not to stereotype people who are in favor of ARs but most people I know who are older and in favor of ARs use to be the biggest outlaws around. They've had their full of killing small bucks and now they're changing their tunes. How bout hunters like me who don't get a buck every year and always been doing it legally? Why stop me now from killing my one 4 pointer a year? You proponets are nothing but a bunch of horn hungry jerks!
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
yeah i am a full time student, 19 years old.
but no i did NOT have private land to hunt on, i was hunting on state land and it was land that i never knew existed until this fall. by the way you talk, you wouldnt be excited if a couple nice 8 pointers walked down the trail to you. because thats what you would be seing if there were ar's |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Besides hunting is not about killing, otherwise it would be calledkilling
dont you enjoy watching deer? |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
He dosent have time to watch deer.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
hj123 - please detail the type of AR you believe would make this big change and why it would work. Points based, spread, age or other type?
Thanks Steve |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
i believe that if new york had the same regulations as PA, 3 points to one side, it would make a big difference in the size of the bucks killed
even though there are those bucks that are only a year and a half that may have 3 points to one side already, most of them dont have very long points with antler restrictions you would have to get a really good look at a buck like that to tell that it had 3 points on one side, alot of times you dont really get that chance, giving that buck a better chance at surviving atleast until its second year with a rack. the spikes and 4 pointers dont have much of a rack their first year, but that doesnt mean that they dont have the potential to be great bucks, it could be that they were a late fawn and/or all of it's growing went into its body and the next year the growing will be more pointed towards antler growth. it may mean that there will be fewer bucks killed the first or second year with the AR's, but that wasnt the case here in PA, the AR's would also help balance the deer herd, get closer to one buck to 2 or 3 doe ratio, where as right now i see the herd at about 1 buck to every 6 or 7 does. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Take the time to read the 17 pages posted here. Better than 50% of the 1 1/2 yo bucks here have 3 or more per side. Points based Ar will shift the pressure to them insuring they are all but wiped out the first year. The spikes and forks that are spared will be for the most part be small 3 per side at 2 1/2 and also targeted. Points based Ar assures that all small immature bucks will still be targeted. Points based Ar does little to allow deer to mature - and 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 are far from mature.
To me it makes no sense and is wrong to tell someone they must pass on a spike or any other young deer so you or someone else will be able to shoot it as an IMMATURE 2 1/2 yo 6 pt scoring maybe 70. NYS is too varied in conditions to have a one size fits all approach. What may work in one area will be completely wrong for another. Points based Ar is too simplistic an approach and has far too many faults to have it mandatory. If you want to hunt big deer let the YOUNG ones walk. And threw example and education, encourage others to also. But don't try to determine for all what is a "big enough" deer to shoot. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ok, but dont you think that if there were a one size fits all approach that the state might become more balanced.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
the percentage of bucks that reach maturity is very low, in large part because of the number of 1 1/2 year old bucks that are killed, so if you could increase the number of deer that make it past there first year of life dont you think you would also increase the number of deer that would reach maturity.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: jcchartboy Stretch, You posted in the wrong thread.... Ibelieve you meant to post that guy in the "other" 20 pg thread;) Sorry JC but it was intended for the "i have never heard so much complaining about not seeing any deer, people are just to lazy and wont get off their 4 wheelers and sit for a while or even walk somewheres" I think i missed 3 days of hunting all season this yr(couldn`t get out of work in time). Took the first 10 days of gun season off(hunted from day break till 2, came out ate then right back in till dark) had 5 days off for bow(same sitting as gun) and then hunted everyday after work(3:30 till dark). Hunted 6 different spots and saw hadley any deer. Yes I did my pre season homework and scouted so can`t say it was do to lazyness. Don`t bring the 4-wheeler out till I shot something, and did a crap load of walking. Again I know this is off topic but I hate when people assume and put everyone in a category. I grew up hunting so I know what I`m doing. I do support some kind of AR, in hopes of bringing the herd up. I also know that if there isn`t a AR then if you pass a spike/4point or young buck you might not see it again. I do hunt to see deer but I also hunt b/c I love to eat it(I`m eating some jerky now)I did read in the paper before season about some land owners trying to get AR`s in effect for my area but I think it died down. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I think i missed 3 days of hunting all season this yr(couldn`t get out of work in time). Took the first 10 days of gun season off(hunted from day break till 2, came out ate then right back in till dark) had 5 days off for bow(same sitting as gun) and then hunted everyday after work(3:30 till dark). Hunted 6 different spots and saw hadley any deer. Yes I did my pre season homework and scouted so can`t say it was do to lazyness. Seems to me the moral of this story is that you are not hunting in a good area and should consider hunting a different area. If you did your "pre-season scouting homework", shouldn't you have known there was "hardley any deer".? |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
well i was hunting on state land that i had never set foot on until hunting season and i had no problems finding deer up there, actually i shot 3 up there.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: jcchartboy I think i missed 3 days of hunting all season this yr(couldn`t get out of work in time). Took the first 10 days of gun season off(hunted from day break till 2, came out ate then right back in till dark) had 5 days off for bow(same sitting as gun) and then hunted everyday after work(3:30 till dark). Hunted 6 different spots and saw hadley any deer. Yes I did my pre season homework and scouted so can`t say it was do to lazyness. Seems to me the moral of this story is that you are not hunting in a good area and should consider hunting a different area. If you did your "pre-season scouting homework", shouldn't you have known there was "hardley any deer".? Ummmmm I said sorry for going off topic in my post. It was a reply to the "lazy poeple" post. I did my pre-season homework. saw rubs, alot of tracks and evan does.Was hoping the does brought in bucks,LOL.Travel up this way sometime and try to hunt public land. Cicero swamp had 30 cars parked there. Alot of the land here is POSTED.No I don`t tresspass. Any hunting land here is either being hunted or the land owners don`t want you on thier land.The 6 spots I hunt are the ones I own or have permission to hunt. Total I saw 13 deer including the 4 point I shot. that`s "hardley any deer"to me. I think if there was AR`s then some of the guys around where I hunt wouldn`t shoot small deer but since no one I hunt with is seeing deer they shoot the 1st buck they see. I would`ve passed on the 4 point but he was the only buck I saw all of bow season. This is my last rant since I`m the only "non real hunter" on here and am the only hunter not seeing any deer.[&o] again sorry off topic.  |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: hunterjohn123 well i was hunting on state land that i had never set foot on until hunting season and i had no problems finding deer up there, actually i shot 3 up there. well good for you John. YOU THE MAN. I guess if we got off our 4-wheelers and hunted we might have gotten 6 bucks in the last 3 yrs.must have been in the RIGHT SPOT. Try that in cicero swamp or toad harbor swamp.  |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
OK, but don't you think that if there were a one size fits all approach that the state might become more balanced. the percentage of bucks that reach maturity is very low, in large part because of the number of 1 1/2 year old bucks that are killed, so if you could increase the number of deer that make it past there first year of life don't you think you would also increase the number of deer that would reach maturity. Shooting a 1 1/2 yo 3 pt/side (or even 2 1/2)does not let this deer get mature. I see no way AR based on points will allow any significant number of bucks to reach true maturity in NY. The only way for a deer to mature is to not shoot him when they are young regardless of the arbitrary number of points in their rack. And I will never feel it is might right to dictate to someone else what deer is "big enough". I will continue to explain to them that if they really wish to shoot a mature deer, they better not shoot any young ones. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Stretch...I just wanted to say..your a good sport...:)
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ok, but alot of the bucks that may have 3 points to one side wont necessarily get shot, if the AR was enforced you would first have to be able to identify 3 points on one side before you could actually shoot. thats not possible in every hunting opportunity.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I'm not fromyour neck of the woods , but what would possess you to limiteveryone else in your statethat way ?
Not everybody cares about trophy deer , in fact most people couldn't care less about them .Trophy hunters are a minority , mosthunters just want to get a deer , any deer . Deal with that because it's true whether you like it or not. The vastmajority of deer hunters are weekend warriors who are largely content to just see deer and hopefully shoot one during the average2-3 days a year that they hunt . Hardcores are far more rare than most of you are willing to admit , and here's a shocker , for all of your bluster and blather most of us statistically aren't hardcores . If you truly want to snag a booner then why not just do whatmost of you aren'tdoing now , pass on the dinks , get more than 500 yards from your trucks , and get in deep where the big boys live. Buy a deer cart and a GPS , grab a buddy and hike in a mile or better , and look for the thick stuff . If you honestly want a chance at a state record that's really all it takes . Punking your DEC into adopting ridiculous restrictions whose only purpose is to (allegedly}grow a booner behind every bush will only ruin the huntingin generaland cheapen the experience for everyone. Get off your butts and hunt harder , that's whatit takes to gettrophies , not bull**** restrictions that only make you lazier than you already are. If this statement pisses you off it's because you know it's true . I've seen bigger bucks root digging 3 miles into a national forest than most of you will ever see in your entire life, stop trying to take the easy route and you'll see that I'm speaking the truth . Practice what you preach and your efforts will be rewarded with the kind of wallhangers that you all fantasize about and drool over when you're at a Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops store . The guys who put those heads on the wall took my advice instead of bitching about it for the next 15 pages like you're going to . Nattering and cursing me won't put something to brag about on your wall , getting off your lazy asses and proving me right will . |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Ididn't read all posts,been chasing grouse.
BUT I am from thisneck of country, You got it exactly right kevin. After opening day. Saturday this year, I thinkI counted about 5 shots the first week. I don't live in a big hunting area but even the pickup huntersdidn't show. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Kevin 1 said: If this statement pisses you off it's because you know it's true Thank you for the constructive post Kevin, it has answered all the questions... |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: hunterjohn123 ok, but alot of the bucks that may have 3 points to one side wont necessarily get shot, if the AR was enforced you would first have to be able to identify 3 points on one side before you could actually shoot. thats not possible in every hunting opportunity. The key to your post is "If the AR was enforced" one DEC officer per 300 sq miles ain`t gonna cut it. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
"Hell Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: rotty404 "Hell Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" Rotty welcome to the forums. What`s your reasoning behind the hell nooooooooooooo? just wondering. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: kevin1 Not everybody cares about trophy deer , in fact most people couldn't care less about them .Trophy hunters are a minority , mosthunters just want to get a deer , any deer . |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: jf5 ORIGINAL: kevin1 Not everybody cares about trophy deer , in fact most people couldn't care less about them .Trophy hunters are a minority , mosthunters just want to get a deer , any deer . Education is the key , not foolish restrictions that force others to hunt the way you do . If bagging a buck with a rack like the Charter Oak is what turns your crank then encourage others to think that way too , but don't try to force them to do it your way , you'll turn off more than you turn on . Don't press your state F&G dept. for restrictions , ask the biologists that your tax dollars are paying for what it will take to gradually improve the herd , herds don't change overnight regardless of what we do . Improve access opportunities by convincing farmers and other landowners that allowing hunters to take out their "nuisance deer" is a good thing and won't cost them anything . While you're performing that service work toward balancing the ratio of the deer that you don't shoot so that you can get closer to your goal of a balanced ratio in that area . Honey attracts far more flies than vinegar , strive for a balance between what you want and what everybody else wants . Farmers and insurance companies want less deer , fine , take out more deer but take them out in an educated way . Rank and file hunters , who outnumber trophy hunters , just want to go out for the few days each year that they do and just hunt , leave them alone . Your state F&G dept. wants to maintain an overall healthy herd , fine , help them . Volunteer for cull hunts where the deer are overpopulated and take them out . Donate the carcasses to a food bank or other program for the hungry if you can , or just select a local family who needs the meat and cut and package it for them . This one is a favorite of mine , I like to give back a little for what I've received and the result is immediate . You see ? It doesn't always have to be about braggin' rights , and if you work it right everbody wins . Think about it . |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: kevin1 ORIGINAL: jf5 ORIGINAL: kevin1 Not everybody cares about trophy deer , in fact most people couldn't care less about them .Trophy hunters are a minority , mosthunters just want to get a deer , any deer . Education is the key , not foolish restrictions that force others to hunt the way you do . If bagging a buck with a rack like the Charter Oak is what turns your crank then encourage others to think that way too , but don't try to force them to do it your way , you'll turn off more than you turn on . Don't press your state F&G dept. for restrictions , ask the biologists that your tax dollars are paying for what it will take to gradually improve the herd , herds don't change overnight regardless of what we do . Improve access opportunities by convincing farmers and other landowners that allowing hunters to take out their "nuisance deer" is a good thing and won't cost them anything . While you're performing that service work toward balancing the ratio of the deer that you don't shoot so that you can get closer to your goal of a balanced ratio in that area . Honey attracts far more flies than vinegar , strive for a balance between what you want and what everybody else wants . Farmers and insurance companies want less deer , fine , take out more deer but take them out in an educated way . Rank and file hunters , who outnumber trophy hunters , just want to go out for the few days each year that they do and just hunt , leave them alone . Your state F&G dept. wants to maintain an overall healthy herd , fine , help them . Volunteer for cull hunts where the deer are overpopulated and take them out . Donate the carcasses to a food bank or other program for the hungry if you can , or just select a local family who needs the meat and cut and package it for them . This one is a favorite of mine , I like to give back a little for what I've received and the result is immediate . You see ? It doesn't always have to be about braggin' rights , and if you work it right everbody wins . Think about it . Game laws should be reviewed and changed accordingly with the changing situations. It has worked well for fisheries, and for game animals. I know its hard to change tradition, but AR is notabout trophy snobs ideals. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Yes!
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