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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Welcome AndesNY2! Andes is about an hour from my home in Woodstock NY.My father and brother have hunted deer in your area for many years.I do some turkey hunting up that way.Again welcome! I wholeheartedly agree with what you have written!Merry Christmas!
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Merry Christmas to you too tsoc. Hopefully we can get a few others and the DEC on board with AR in all of NY. For now I'm just glad that they have stopped the DMP's in many areas.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Antler restiction will help overall hunter satisfaction byincreasing the number of opportunitiesfor hunters that not only want venison but a nice set of antlers as well. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I think the vast majority of hunters that support AR are not looking to shoot 60 class 6 pointers but hoping for larger.I guess the fundemental question is, what is a hunter looking for? If it's meat for the freezer, shoot a doe. If it is trophy buck, you will have to pass on small bucks and hope that they survive another year. With AR at least those 1 1/2 yr old bucks have a chance to grow one more year. I pass on small bucks and hope that they will still be alive next year but know that the vast majority are being shot before they can reach 2-3 and really ever 4. AR isn't perfect but rather a compromise. It still allows for buck and doe hunting but with the added benefit of potentially trophy quality down the road. This means that hunters may have to pass on a few smaller bucks before the quantity of legal bucks actually reaches agreater percent of the population.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I think the vast majority of hunters that support AR are not looking to shoot 60 class 6 pointers but hoping for larger. For now I'm just glad that they have stopped the DMP's in many areas. AR isn't perfect but rather a compromise. It still allows for buck and doe hunting but with the added benefit of potentially trophy quality down the road. A compromise that promotes trophy hunters desiresand keep sthe hunter who likes to get out with friends and family a couple days, see some deer and maybe get a chance at one. That 60 class, spike or fork is their trophy. Deny them this and in a few years hunter #'s will drop. Maybe this is what the more horn guys want - less competition. No compromise here I can see - just giving the trophy guys what they want and to heck with everyone else. Steve |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I know and understand the argument, that a 1 1/2 yr old deer could havemin of three points per sideand thereforehave better than average genetic potential but that will be more the exception than the rule. Go to the following link:http://www.cnywhitetails.com/. Download and veiw the proposal these guys want to inact in 7j,7h,and 7k. See page 15. I don't agree withmaking their ideas or anyones mandatory. But they have presented the downside to points based AR in areas of good nutrition. Interesting read. Steve |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I certainly agree it is a good read (http://www.cnywhitetails.com)that is exactly the type of information we should be referencing in this discussion .....
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Beam width may be a much better alternative to AR. Sounds like a solid management plan as well.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I would like to see AR in my area. My area dose have some nice 120s now and then. but rare. Theres also alot of does, So theres your meat. it would be nice to have some bigger bucks running then what we manage on our private lands.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
What about us hunters who are only able to get out to hunt a few times of the year. For example, at my place of work I often put in 50 hours a week. I'm not self employed or retired and I can't get out to hunt all that often. My point is, I can't hunt all damn week to wait for that trophy. If I see a small buck, that is my trophy and is usually the only deer I get all year.
If we did have AR and after a few years you shot a decent sized deer, would that be any more of a trophy than a 4 pointer before ARs????? Afterall, that buck could've been passed up when he was a smaller buck. I'm sick of all this talk about ARs... Talk to the ANYONE who lives and hunt in Potter or McKean County of PA and see what they think of ARs.. I haven't met one person yet who is in favor of it.. Where are the trophies in PA? Some of you may say pass on a small buck and shoot that doe for meat. My response to that is that is why our deer herd is hurting, too many of you doe killers and helping destroy the herd! |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
What about us hunters who are only able to get out to hunt a few times of the year. For example, at my place of work I often put in 50 hours a week. I'm not self employed or retired and I can't get out to hunt all that often. My point is, I can't hunt all damn week to wait for that trophy. If I see a small buck, that is my trophy and is usually the only deer I get all year. If we did have AR and after a few years you shot a decent sized deer, would that be any more of a trophy than a 4 pointer before ARs????? Afterall, that buck could've been passed up when he was a smaller buck. Steve |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I don't think anyone is debating the definition of what a "Trophy" is. It is similar to trying to define beauty, being that it is the eye of the beholder. The case for AR or beam width is rather this, if 75% of the 1 1/2 yrs old bucks are killed, it leaves little for hunters that are looking for more than just a freezer full. I have never shot a doe nor plan to kill one, but I do not look down on those that choose to for food. I agree that NY and other states are in the position they are because of too many DMP's but that it the DEC's job to control (hopefully they have seen the errors of there ways). Based upon my own opinions on game management and what I have read, a certain number of does need to be taken to keep the population in check.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Ones I keep making and that the AR proponentsNEVER address. How many of the 600,000 liscenses sold this year where purchased by hunters like you. How many will be here 5 years after AR keeps them from shooting a deer?
In reply to your question: [ul][*]Game management is not about selling licenses. As theterm indicates, it is about managing the game.[*]If the quality of deer/ antlers is higher, less hunters will be likely to travel out west and stay in NY. [/ul] |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I've never traveled out west of a trophy nor plan on it. My trophy is any buck I see walking on my land when I am hunting it. That buck is a trophy because he has lived til hunting season arrived. He survived coyotes, bears, automobiles and whatever else could be inflicted on him. I know of several people (myself included) who have head mounts of4 pointers, spikes and even does because each one represents a special time. ARs do not guarantee more trophy bucks!
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
We have a larger herd of small bucks now; with AR in a few years the herd of small bucks will grow into bigger bucks along with the following years of small bucks continuing into the path of AR. and would continue in the future.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
with AR in a few years the herd of small bucks will grow into bigger bucks along with the following years of small bucks continuing into the path of AR. Whats a small buck? Whats a big buck (60 class 6 or 8 pt)? Who gets to decide? And why? |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
where i huntit has to be 6 point or more ir u get fined
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Good questions. And vary impossible to answer. But ill tell you one thing. If you had a 50-70 class buck standing next to a 120. I bet you shoot the 120 like I would.;)
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
where i huntit has to be 6 point or more ir u get fined |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
How do you know there are more small bucks than before? Can anyone direct me to a site that gives me facts that ARs will work in NY State? That after so many years, the buck harvestwill beabout the same as before ARs were in place but the racks will be bigger? I really would like toread the FACTS. I want to see the numbers. I want to see that one area the harvest of 1000 bucks consisted of 900 4 pointers but now, because of ARs, that harvest is 900 8 pointers. ARs were in place now in PA for what 3 years now??? Ask the hunters in McKean or Potter County PA if there are more small bucks running around??? Does anyone on this forum hunt unit 3A in PA? What do you think, do you think ARs are working in unit 3A?
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
It is hard to tell what the facts are coming out of PA, as the PGC has not released any information on the success or failure of AR. We hear a lot from unhappy hunters on this and other posts about the declining conditions in PA but isthis outcryoccurring more, less or about the sameas we hear fromNY hunters? So, the question is, is the contemporary way of managing our deer herd the way we should continue? Let's face it the deer herd is declining in NY, hunter numbers are down as a result, and many of us are frustrated that we spend hours in the woods just to see one or two does. In my opinion, something must be done and it is called change.I know this word scares many, as it means things will be different. Yes, there is a chance that things could get worse but there is a greater likelyhood that they will get better as they are already pretty bad. No, this is not a guarantee or promisethat they will get, but in life there are few of those. I would recommend that everyone look at the attached site... if nothing else, it providesa balanced perspective from wildlife biologists & hunters on what may be a viable option for NY.(http://www.cnywhitetails.com)
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Is that proposal only for Region 7?
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
You need to read the whole thing to understand it.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
That didn’t answer my question.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
PAGE 3lists the wmu's - 7j, 7h, and 7f. Try the link.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Ok yup, thx Steve.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Sorry to be sarcastic- I'm working on it. It is importament to thoroughly read the whole thing. There are some great points, good points, and points that I disagree with. It also points out that what they propose may not be good for all areas. Those wmu's have good genetics and great habitat - at least part of them(all wmu vary greatly).
Iv'e read it several times and pick up something new each time. Steve |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
maybe in certain areas and these areas are rotated every year. i took a shot at a buck opening day. i was on the ground, he was running on the edge. long story short i thought it was a 4 pointer. walked up to it after to discover it was a 9 pointer. if there were restrictions say 6-8 points total i would have missed this guy cause i couldn't I.D. well. i'll tell you one thing if there is a restriction i hope it only lasts for a year or two. i don't like the fact that the hunt would get tougher for me. land now adays is becoming more developed and harder to hunt if huntable at all. thank god for public land:)
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
we like the AR restriction here in pa.2g is 3 points on 1side.what we dont like is the SLOBS that are using this restriction to get a deer and put the junior hunters tags on it. we think it should be 3 points on 1 side for all of us, including kids. this way the young bucks would survive to get to at least 2.5 years old, not the 1.5 years old .i am not a rack hunter but way it is now, SLOBS have advantage over us honest adults and kids. SLOBSsaying now, BROWN ITS DOWN WITH A KIDS TAG.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
No plan is ever perfect as there are those that will look for loop holes to try to beat the system. Hopefully, PGC realize that and closes it before it starts to spread. One of the other benefits of AR or width restriction is that you do need to indentify the game animal you are shooting at before you squeeze the trigger and helps to reduce hunting accidents. None of this brown and and itsdown BS.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I agree that there are SLOB hunters, the problem is, there always was and probably always will be SLOB hunters. I don't agree with ARs and I really agree with the concept of waiving ARs for kids and seniors. I know there are people out there who shoot deer and putothers tags on the deer and those who don't tag at all. Even in NY, where I live in Cattaraugus County, some people would shoot their deer and then say they are bear hunting. When they're out in the woods "bear hunting" they see another deer, they shoot it, call up a buddy and put the buddy's tag on it or just quickly drag the deer home. Believe me, there will always be tricks to get around the system by those that wish to trick the system. I've even heard of people shooting deer and letting it lay when seeing how small it is. Unfortunately, I don't think poaching is uncommon at all. I'm sure most readers know or suspect of others who are poachers. The problem is with catching them. Sorry for rambling, this is off subject!
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
ORIGINAL: CattNY I don't agree with ARs and I really agree with the concept of waiving ARs for kids and seniors. Currently, only the younger kids get the AR waiver in NY plans in work now. Seniors do not. Additionally, the state (dec)has been concerned with declining numbers of hunters. They've been looking at two options to "fund" the bank of hunters in NY. 1 is the young and up and comers. They want to lowet the age limit, which I think will be done in a few years after the legislative battle. Secondly, they want to tap into adults who have never had the chance to hunt, or got out of it and could likely return to hunting. Granted AR claims bigger bucks (which is debate material, and not going to be addressed in this post other than the fact I don't believe in it should be enacted) and it may entice hunters, but it is a big if... MY thing is, new hunters (above the the low age limit) aren't going to idly sit by and watch a buck have to be passed many times before discouragement sets in. That totally defeats half of their recruitment base. I also think some dummy is going to toss some lawsuit out there challenging the age exempted AR status as being some sort of discrimintation. As much as I hate that practice, someone would have a logical piece of ground to stand on. |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
they wont close this loophole because they feel it will SELL licenses . you would not believe the number of junior licenses sold in last 2 years .licenses were not sold because of the exemption on AR.sadly, you dont see all those kids in woods that bought all those licenses. SLOBS are using this junior thing to hunt ,BROWN AND ITS DOWN WITHJUNIOR TAG. they dont have to look for AR .this is unfair to honest hunters with kids. i believe its happening more than we are aware of to.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
they wont close this loophole because they feel it will SELL licenses That said- I'm notfor AR in NY - even though I would personlly like it. I think we have too many hunters in NY for AR to be a good option. If the hunter numbers really drop in half over the next ten years like some are saying - I'd say we'd be foolish not to keep it open as an option. FH |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I can`t find the newspaper article on this but I know there was one in the post standard right around opening day that said some local land owners around here where pushing the state to set an antler restriction. If I can dig the article up I`ll post the link.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
the AR is good thing, i believe.only problem is the violators of rule are having good time if they have kids tag.honest adults with kids are suffering. i still feel it should be AR for all of us. if not, the violators with kids tag will be ,BROWN ITS DOWN WITH KIDS TAG. they dont have to look to see if it is 3 points on side or 1 point. only way i know to stop it is to make AR for everyone.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I almost hate to step in to this one it seems so heated but here goes.
One question: If implemented does anyone know if it will be in effect in very low population areas like 5H? With no DMPs and having to count points I think it will get very challengeing to hunt up there as if its not already. Maybe the soultion would be to offer prefference points for DMPs to senior and younger hunters.Give them 2-3 pref points.That way they would have a better chance for that DMP yet wouldn't throw a wrench into the AR intended goals. NoKnees |
RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
here in pa. we have AR. in 2g we have 3 point to side.we like itBUT will it work. i have seen a few big bucks killed this year.is it do to AR, yes. BUT, BUT, here is what is wrong with it. the little bucks are being killed.the juniors/senoirs can kill little ones. what we saw this year was VERY few little bucks were seen. last year juniors/seniors made a big kill on little bucks. then throw in no doe do to the massive doe killing in wmu 2g, you have very few deer ,let alone bucks.also no fawns. then you haveviolators of AR that shoot a little buck and have kid near by to tag it or kids tag.this hurts the honest adults with kids. here is my opinion, the AR should be for everyone. the violators dont want this.they have good thing going right now doing it illegal. do to not seeing very many little bucks now i feel this should be way to go. i am not a rack hunter but i like to see nice bucks.if we had a lot of little bucks, i would be first to say leave it alone. but we have very few little ones and no doe now in wmu 2g. take care.
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I think everyone should! It keep most of the idiots from killing the button bucks and immature deer. Let them grow for God's sake! Everyone just wants to shoot any deer they see. If meat is that important to you, kill a doe!
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RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
antler restrictions will make bigger bucks ,I think it would be good only if you have a lot of small deer that hunters are killing
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