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-   -   NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/northeast/118612-ny-do-u-think-we-should-have-antler-restrictions.html)

Phade 12-22-2005 05:48 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: SteveBNy

Phade - I know - probably the 5th time I've presented this recently. Those who acknowledge my arguement have never tried to refute it. The others ignore it because they can't refute. Like you, I think this spring will be interesting. Seems to be a perception something needs to be fixed that isn't really broke!

Looked in BassPro today for your artcle - no go. Any suggestions?

Happy holidays
Steve
There is a team in MS that is working on hygration studies in Arkansas I believe. They are concluding that the upper echelon of bucks don't make it (A/R implemented), and it is causing an average 19 inches of antler to be lost in mature deer in the state. That is a ton.

I'm not sure where Quality Whitetails is on the stands. I'll have to ask Lindsay.

Got an article coming up in D&DH in the June issue.

tsoc 12-22-2005 08:46 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I don't want to get involved in any p---ing match with any one.I expressed my opinion and I stand by it!There was one comment I had read about not every one receiving a management permit.I was considering all seasons not just rifle,archery and muzzleloader are either sex seasons.
I am not blasting any one for their opinion and I respect their right to kill what ever the game laws allow.I personally choose not to kill small bucks,and while I respect someone's right to do so I do wonder why they would choose to when doe's are so much more plentiful.

Phade 12-22-2005 08:53 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: tsoc

I don't want to get involved in any p---ing match with any one.I expressed my opinion and I stand by it!There was one comment I had read about not every one receiving a management permit.I was considering all seasons not just rifle,archery and muzzleloader are either sex seasons.
I am not blasting any one for their opinion and I respect their right to kill what ever the game laws allow.I personally choose not to kill small bucks,and while I respect someone's right to do so I do wonder why they would choose to when doe's are so much more plentiful.
My 5pt that I took in archery is a trophy to me. I worked hard for the chance to harvest him.

Do you think you have the right to say I shouldn't be able to harvest it?

I think you are on the right page TS, it's a personal choice for all citizens. Not an issue for amandate from the state.





jf5 12-23-2005 08:38 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: Phade


ORIGINAL: tsoc

I don't want to get involved in any p---ing match with any one.I expressed my opinion and I stand by it!There was one comment I had read about not every one receiving a management permit.I was considering all seasons not just rifle,archery and muzzleloader are either sex seasons.
I am not blasting any one for their opinion and I respect their right to kill what ever the game laws allow.I personally choose not to kill small bucks,and while I respect someone's right to do so I do wonder why they would choose to when doe's are so much more plentiful.
My 5pt that I took in archery is a trophy to me. I worked hard for the chance to harvest him.

Do you think you have the right to say I shouldn't be able to harvest it?

I think you are on the right page TS, it's a personal choice for all citizens. Not an issue for amandate from the state.




Glad you are happy with your Deer Phade. Congrats. Any deer with a bow is a nice one. Understand,I don't think anyone is trying to dictate what a trophy is to another. Its deeper than that.

Any pics of your deer? Would love to see it...

Phade 12-23-2005 10:19 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: jf5


ORIGINAL: Phade


ORIGINAL: tsoc

I don't want to get involved in any p---ing match with any one.I expressed my opinion and I stand by it!There was one comment I had read about not every one receiving a management permit.I was considering all seasons not just rifle,archery and muzzleloader are either sex seasons.
I am not blasting any one for their opinion and I respect their right to kill what ever the game laws allow.I personally choose not to kill small bucks,and while I respect someone's right to do so I do wonder why they would choose to when doe's are so much more plentiful.
My 5pt that I took in archery is a trophy to me. I worked hard for the chance to harvest him.

Do you think you have the right to say I shouldn't be able to harvest it?

I think you are on the right page TS, it's a personal choice for all citizens. Not an issue for amandate from the state.




Glad you are happy with your Deer Phade. Congrats. Any deer with a bow is a nice one. Understand,I don't think anyone is trying to dictate what a trophy is to another. Its deeper than that.

Any pics of your deer? Would love to see it...
Thanks, I posted a thread about it in October. I'll have to search for it here.

But that is ultimately my point. It isn't deeper than that. A/R is completely dictating what a trophy is to another...

Yeah, there is biology involved later on in the discussion, but we have to get over the hump of dictating to NY's hunters what a trophy is to them.

Had A/R been enacted when I was out bowhunting that day, I'd have went buckless this year. There was not enough time for me to judge his 3rd point on one side. It was done and over with in less than 10 seconds...

I couldn't look at another hunter (who for sake of example shot a forkhorn) who was darn proud of the work he put into the hunt, and was relishing in the reward of his labor...and tell him that he shouldn't be able to harvest that deer.

jf5 12-23-2005 11:54 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 

ORIGINAL: Phade


ORIGINAL: jf5


ORIGINAL: Phade


ORIGINAL: tsoc

I don't want to get involved in any p---ing match with any one.I expressed my opinion and I stand by it!There was one comment I had read about not every one receiving a management permit.I was considering all seasons not just rifle,archery and muzzleloader are either sex seasons.
I am not blasting any one for their opinion and I respect their right to kill what ever the game laws allow.I personally choose not to kill small bucks,and while I respect someone's right to do so I do wonder why they would choose to when doe's are so much more plentiful.
My 5pt that I took in archery is a trophy to me. I worked hard for the chance to harvest him.

Do you think you have the right to say I shouldn't be able to harvest it?

I think you are on the right page TS, it's a personal choice for all citizens. Not an issue for amandate from the state.




Glad you are happy with your Deer Phade. Congrats. Any deer with a bow is a nice one. Understand,I don't think anyone is trying to dictate what a trophy is to another. Its deeper than that.

Any pics of your deer? Would love to see it...
Thanks, I posted a thread about it in October. I'll have to search for it here.

But that is ultimately my point. It isn't deeper than that. A/R is completely dictating what a trophy is to another...

Yeah, there is biology involved later on in the discussion, but we have to get over the hump of dictating to NY's hunters what a trophy is to them.

Had A/R been enacted when I was out bowhunting that day, I'd have went buckless this year. There was not enough time for me to judge his 3rd point on one side. It was done and over with in less than 10 seconds...

I couldn't look at another hunter (who for sake of example shot a forkhorn) who was darn proud of the work he put into the hunt, and was relishing in the reward of his labor...and tell him that he shouldn't be able to harvest that deer.

I'll take a look at the deer. Congrats again.

Thats it though Phade. You guys associate AR with "trophy" restrictions. Thats not what its about at all for most. I knowyour mind is made up. But here it goes. ( and I know I said I was done..sorry) ;)LOL

Here we have a 12" size limit on Largemouth bass, it used to be 10".If a guy catches his first bass and its 10" should I let him keep it?? To his eyes that fish could mean the world to him. A true trophy is in the eye of the beholder, yes. But those restrictions are there for a reason. A 12" legal basslimit wasn't made by hawg hunters because they think a 12+" bass is a trophy and want to dictate that to others. Its just a limit to set harvests by to benefit the stocks, and have more adult fish live longer.

I know guys who have hunted years and think any deeris a trophy because they havenever got one.Should theyget automatic tags with their license to take any deerin anyzone just because they boughtone?? Should they be allowed to shoot a fawn or doe in any zone automatically because that deer means the world to them?? The limitations are there for a reason. Why not up it a notch?? A small AR still leaves allot of deer open to be taken.

I am not a trophy hunter at all. I shot abuck thisyear that would not be legal in most counties in PA. It was my first buck in this state ina long, long time, and is a trophy to me. I'll still takesmall bucks as long as its legal in any state and plan to do so in NY too. But these types of restrictions would prevent me and others from doing so.And I still support it because I feel the herd will benefit in the long run.I know it was my choice to shoot, but if I pass,nothing prevents the others from taking my littlebuck.

My friend in PA has been reporting the results of AR to me for the past few years, and I gotta say I am impressed with the results. He has hunted PA for 30+ years and is so happy about the results.

I do admire your feelings for the common hunter. I am one of them and know how it feels to take ANY buck. Please believe that. I just think these things can improve the herd structure and benefit all hunters in the long run...

Thanks for listening...

Maybe I'll see ya inthe NY woods sometime.

Happy Holidays

tsoc 12-23-2005 01:50 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Very well stated jf5! My comments were not directed at any one person specifically(in this case Phade)they were general comments expressing my opinion.I do not attack people verbally unless attacked by them.It serves no purpose.I am a hunter and this forum is a communtiy of hunters who seemingly for the most part are some pretty fine people.
There is an expression that" if you do what you always have done you will get what you have always got"
Why was it so hard for you Phade to kill that buck you killed?You have every right to be proud of your kill(I would say harvest but there are some people on this forum that think you are a mary if you don't say kill)I bet you worked darn hard to put yourself in a position to kill him and then you "closed the deal".In my area of NYS it is hard to kill any buck much less a 2 1/2 year old or older.The reason that is is because there are so few of them.Because of my interest and committment, personally I could kill young 1 1/2 year old bucks every year if I chose to.I choose not to,because of that myself and others have had the opportunity to kill some bucks that other wise would have already been taken a year or two prior.
In our area of NYS the casual hunter stands very little chance at killing a big buck and possibly it is for the same reason it was so challenging to kill the 5 pointer that Phade shot.
Others have made the argument that by implementing anything that restricts the killing of younger bucks you are making it easier to kill bigger bucks.That of course to a degree is true.I think it would be a better conclusion to say it makes it possible to kill big bucks versus next to impossible given the current management philosophies.(At least in my area of the state).Big bucks are never easy to kill,and I say that from my experience of hunting every year out of state in an area where there are plenty of big bucks.
Antler restrictions are not the only way to accomplish having a broader age class of bucks,to date it is the only one that has been proposed.Other possibilities are a one buck a year limitation,one tag only that is an either sex tag,shortening our firearms seasons dramatically.Look at where the biggest bucks in our state are being killed,it is in the bow only zones.The shot gun area's produce consistently bigger bucks than the rifle area's.There are other legitimate ways to accomplish having a more balanced buck population.(I am expecting to be bashed by those who think the natural order of any mammal population to be other than one to one,where 85% of the females bred are bred by adolescents)Save your breath I will never be convinced that that is the way it is supposed to be!!
I think one of the root aspects of the problem is that no one is willing to give,to sacrifice at all,to attempt something different!It would be perfectly fine with me if there was a moritorium on killing any bucks for two years,we would have some gagger bucks if we did that.
They are killing some huge bucks in PA,if they were better in PA with the amount of management permits that were allowed I don't believe you would be hearing all the negative things that you have.
Sorry for the long post! Phade,a sincere congratulations on your kill!I know how hard it can be to be successful.
Merry Christmas!
Scot

Phade 12-23-2005 04:40 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I give up.:D

Merry Christmas to both of ya's. And thanks for the congrats.

tsoc 12-23-2005 09:11 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
Merry Christmas to you and yours!

AndesNY2 12-25-2005 11:49 AM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
 
I know I'm a little late to jump on this post but I had to way in. Let's face it, NY's deer population in many parts of the state is way down especially in the Catskill region where I hunt as a result of many factors (ie. excessive DMP's, increase predation, habitat reduction due to mature growth foreston statelands, etc.). Antler restiction will help overall hunter satisfaction byincreasing the number of opportunitiesfor hunters that not only want venison but a nice set of antlers as well. I know and understand the argument, that a 1 1/2 yr old deer could havemin of three points per sideand thereforehave better than average genetic potential but that will be more the exception than the rule.Not withstanding mandating hunters practice Quality deer management, which would be extremely difficult to implement, antler restrictions are theone of the bestways to increase the average age of our buck population. Let's just learn from the mistakes of PAby notwiping out the doe populationwith too many DMP's.


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