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jcchartboy 11-17-2005 06:18 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?

Like I said, until you, the state, and the rest of our sportsmen and women decide on what a trophy is, then and only then will those numbers become relevant bio data. Before that, its as worthless as used toilet paper, and not relevant.
I am happy that you state your opinion. You have every right to hold one on the subject regardless of what you base it on.

Unfortunately, your opinion is nothing more than that, an opinion.

This board was created so members could share the information they thought was relevant to a specific subject matters with the goal of creating more informed knowledgable hunters.

As long as each post pertains to the subject matter, and contains information that futhers the original discussion that is all that matters.

AJ52 11-17-2005 06:44 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Some good points made back on page 2,3 or maybe 4 ??.

I see this going nowhere but ending up as a knock down drag out flame war.

Lets stop the posturing and get to the point of "topic".

Phade 11-17-2005 07:13 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?

ORIGINAL: jcchartboy

I really have no interest in debating AR.
Thanks for finally changing your intent and giving some reason.

Phade 11-17-2005 07:17 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?



So, obviously your answer is NO.

You do not believe the biologically data is relevant. Thank you for making that clear.
JC - I think Phades answer is that thebio data is but one very small part of the consideration of mandatory AR (especially based on point restrictions only)for NY.
The only deer protected and allowed to grow older underpoint based AR are spikes and forks who are either late born 1 1/2 or bad genetics. No protection at all for baskets and other YOUNG deer. I have not read everything on real QDM programs, but I find it hard to believe any there are anythat promote the taking of basket 8 points, and any other YOUNG deer( those under 4 1/2).
Perhaps you have other data thatdemonstrateshow targeting and increasing the pressure on the 60% or higher of 1 1/2 NY deer with 6 pts or better will be benefit anything? Or that (example) 90 class 2 1/2 are "trophies"?i
What about the rest of his arguement (ones I strongly agree with) against points based AR for NY? Again - WHAT is a TROPHY, and who gets to decide?

As far as asking you earlier, I figured since Steve asked you about this, I wouldn't have to. Again, at least we are on track with some legit direction. You did not respond. BUt now we are on topic, and its done with.

I suggest a good look at the TX based studies. They've had the longest time span of studies going on, and would have better long term results to look at.

mikeg29 12-20-2005 05:43 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
This is hard to answer,here in PA. the bucks are alot bigger in antler and body size, but you "DON'T SEE AS MANY DEER." I myself hate the fact that deer just aren't out there as they were 5 years ago before this happened here.Not saying any names but the guy that came up with this "antler restriction" quit his job this past year WHY??? ANTLER RESTRICTIONS BIG BIG BIG MISTAKE!!!! DON'T AGREE AT ALL..

PAFlintLock 12-20-2005 09:27 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
Antler restrictions are in the 4th year in PA, and these are the results that I have noticed thus far. For the record I hunt more than anyone that I know and have spent a lot of time researching and studying deer in the field for over 30+ years. My observations are as follows: #1 I see 30-40 different bucks per year and I see more sub-ordinate bucks now than ever. I believe that the inferior gene pool is being allowed to become more prevalent! I thought it was a good thing to weed out the scrub bucks. #2 I see many spikes, 4-6, and small 8 pointers and expect to see more nice racks the next year and this just hasn’t happened! #3 Hunting license sales are declining every year because the casual hunter, who can only get out a day or two, or the guy who doesn’t give a darn about the size of the rack, don't buy a license. The out of state hunters don't appreciate it either. Now with fewer licenses being sold and a bloated budget to supply, the inevitable increase of a license fees is about to happen again. A healthy increase!! This will only help decrease license sales even more. #4 You don't know how many points that moving buck has and they usually won't stop to let you count them! Many nice 4,5&6 pointers have been found left to rot over the past 4 years because now they were illegal kills, OOPS!

Allow me to make the choice as to what buck I shoot or don't shoot!

sproulman 12-21-2005 05:24 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
we have 3 point on i side restriction here in paand we like it very much.big bucks are being shot BUT the slobs are ruining the program. what is happening is ,the adults are shooting the spikes and under 3 point to side bucks if they have kids are exempt.question is ,what is kid learning if the adults shoot the deer and say, kid, put your tag on it. the talk around is ,when you have kids with you, ITS BROWN AND ITS DOWN.even the ones that are going by the rules are getting screwed with slobs shooting anything that is brown.i seen many kids in trucks with heaters on while adults were in woods hunting. i feel it should have been 3 points rule for all,including kids.otherwise the slobs are going to continue to not look at the 3 points and just shoot and tag deer with kids tag. i believe this is happening more than we are aware of.

sproulman 12-21-2005 05:34 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
i guess we all see things different..we like the 3 point rule very one i talk to is complainig.we DONT see many spikes ,most are 3 point or 4 point . problem we are having is SLOBS that are using the kids to shoot the little bucks.maybe that is why i am not seeing many little bucks.i hunted and in woods daily..this program is good on antler restriction but if SLOBS continue to kill little bucks and put kids tag on it, its not going to work.also we are NOT HEARING or finding any small bucks left to rot in woods, not 1 report. people who dont like this are coming up with every excuse to stop have that right.hope you dont think i am being critical but only what i am seeing and what most are telling me here in,2g wmu.

ww874 12-21-2005 07:32 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I hunt in NY and PA. I don't want AR in NY. I have been hunting in PA way before AR in PA. I initially was for AR but having spent many many hours in the woods I do not believe they have worked as advertised. I hunt 3b in PA and have noticed a decline in the quality of bucks since AR. I agree with Steve about everyone shooting young 6s and 8s and as a result they are not growing up.
Also I spoke to an offical state processor who also felt as I did before AR were implemented and now also agrees with me.
I also have no doubt many guys are not counting points (because its practically impossible to see a brow tine from anywhere beyond 25 yards), so they are shooting.After its down if it has 3 points on one side its "to the butcher" and if it doesn'tthen its "over the hill".

tsoc 12-21-2005 09:32 PM

RE: NY do u think we should have a antler restrictions?
I am for antler restrictions. I live in Ulster county and live and hunt extensively in one of the test units.I am not looking for agreement from others nor disaproval.I don't like killing small bucks,it doesn't present a challenge to me and with the doe to buck ratio being what it is I feel it is far more responsible to kill doe's in most of the area's where I hunt.I do agree with others in that in general our herd numbers are way down and the management permits need to be drastically cut back as well as those god awful nuisance permits that farmers get.(slaughter permits)
Killing a mature doe is more challenging than killing a naive 1 1/2 year old buck and they provide just as much or more meat and there are a lot more of them.What is the down side?

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