Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

It's now official!

The Vermont Fish & Wildlife Board made changes to the proposed deer hunting regulation during a special meeting held Wednesday, June 1.
The board changed the annual limit of deer to two, both of which may be bucks. They placed a statewide antler restriction that defines a legal buck as a deer with at least one antler with two or more points. A point must measure at least one inch from base to tip to be legal. And, archery hunters may take an antlerless deer during the archery season without a permit, but only in the Wildlife Management Units open for antlerless harvest, as determined by the board.
The board will review the antlerless deer hunting rule to determine which WMUs will be open for antlerless harvest. Permits will still be issued for antlerless hunting. The current proposed antlerless rule would issue 16,634 permits to have 3,547 antlerless deer harvested. The permits would be issued in 13 of the 24 WMUs.

. . . Rob

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

Rob,

How do you feel about this? It won't effect me and I wouldn't be upset to see either Maine or New Hampshire go this route. I've been passing small bucks for a few years now and am seeing the diffrence but I don't think the general hunting public will be ok with it. I prefer to seek out and hunt mature animals and where I hunt there is almost a mentality that it's unsporting to shoot a doe and cause to celebrate when someone in the party shoots a spike. I'm all for people getting their deer but I don't agree with killing immature bucks.

I hope the hunting for mature animals improves for you over the next few years. If that's what it takes to turn the tide where I hunt then I'd be happy and welcome it with open arms.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

If you guys up North are anything like the million hunters in PA then you will have a lot of fighting going on in the very near future.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

I am very excited about it. Our heard was in need for some major changes due to the way it has been managed over the years. Quanity over quality for many years until loss of habitat and several severe winters took it's toll. In addition to the AR, there will also be about half of our units that you won't be able to take a doe. This is to build up the heard in these units. I don't agree with this as our buck to doe ratio needs to be trimmed down as well. The majority of hunters who made there comments public were in favor of the AR. There may be some that don't want it, but they didn't let there opinions be known. In 3 years we should start to see some nice results. Of course habitat improvement must be go hand in hand with this. Our woods are too mature and need to be cut inorder to produce more brows. The state has started to log some of our WMAs which is the first time in a long time.

Myself and a group of friends started the first Quality Deer Management Association branch here in Vermont. We are all very excited about the new regs. We are having our first Wildlife Habitat workshop this coming August. This will be co-sponsored with the NWTF. It will be a wealth of knowledge for all who attend.

. . . Rob

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

if im reading this right the only thing you cant shoot is a spike... to me that doesnt cut it.. i know its a start, but whats the difference between a spike and a scrub 3 pt.. really it should be an age group, i mean they all are a 1 1/2yr old.. plus again you are shooting the best buck in that age group... id rather have it not be able to shoot 1 1/2yr olds..
also i read that you can shoot 2 bucks, how many could you shoot last year????

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

PA Gobbler,

I agree with you, but how many hunters can really age a deer on the hoof? I would say not many. As you stated, this is a start which can be tweeked each year as needed. If you think about it, an ethical hunter won't be able to see that 3rd point which is an inch long unless the deer if right on top of him. I feel that many legal bucks will walk because hunters can't positively identify the 2 points on one side. With a 2.5 year old, there shouldn't be any question whether it's legal or not.

Last year you could take 3 bucks in VT. Really, the number of second and third bucks taken by a single hunter is so insignificant that it isn't going to make much of a difference.

. . . Rob

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

Vermont definitely had to do something as the herd, at least in the areas we used to hunt was in rough shape. I do think they should have a minimum of 3 points on 1 side vs the 1" 2nd point rule. My observations of Vermont deer hadover half of all1 1/2 year olds as forkers or spike's with 1" bumps. Not going to protect very many 1 1/2 year olds if you can shoot any little forker you see. But it is a start.

I don't think there will be as much of a fight in Vermont as there was in PA, as most hunters agree the hunting in Vermont hasn't been overly good in years.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

Well, I guess the situation in VT is quite a bit different in that you're not planning to eradicate the deer herd. I will agree though that a high percentage of 1-1/2 year old bucks are Y'd on at least one antler....saving few deer based on your regs up there. In PA the biggest complaint isn't with AR.....actually it seems most are in favor of them now. It's the herd reduction that has soooo many up in arms here.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

No doubt that some 1.5 year old bucks have more than spikes. If they are born early and have good habitat and brows, you can even see some 6 and 8 pointers in this age class. I have found sheds from an 8pt year and a half old. This is the exception and not the rule though.

Some stats from VT Fish & Wildlife. The VT buck harvest consists of an average of 60% 1.5 year old bucks over the past two years. Of these young bucks, they averaged 2.9 points and weighed 114 pounds. I think the current rule will allow more young bucks to get into the next age class than you might think.

. . . Rob

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

It's about damn time.........

After seeing the buck quality improve drastically in PA on my land down there, I have been hoping VT would do something similar. The thing that bothers me is that you can still kill 2x bucks per year in VT...........hopefully we also see some major efforts to improve the habitat as well such as selective logging, etc. I still manage to take deer every year in VT but it is some tough hunting and there is no reason that it can't be MUCH better.

Where in Vermont do you live Rob? I grew up and have LOTS of family in the Rutland area (Chittendon, Clarendon, Shrewsbury) and am up there probably 2x weekends a month. I hunt and fish up there a lot still. I was actually up at Bomoseen this last weekend doing some fishing.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

It's finally nice to see more and more hunters supporting QDM. Ar's are a good tool but habitat inprovment can also do a lot for the herd. I hope VT compliments the AR's with cutting to inprove browse and also land preservation. I don't know if you guys in VT are feeling the squeeze of urban sprawl like we are in Southern Maine and New Hampshire.

All in all I think VT is on the right track.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

No argument there.

If you're averaging a 3 point then based on the data provided most 1-1/2 yo bucks will be legal to harvest even with a restriction. Sure you'll save some, but I can't see it being a very large number. Maybedue to hunters looking harder and losing the opportunity you gain a few more. Personally I don't see it being a big step and I don't see it helping much. But, I'm also in no way saying you're wrong....just a difference of opinion.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

thats good they cut the limit of bucks back.. i was going to say if they added another tag i think that would be shooting themselves in the foot..i agree not many hunters are able to tell on the hoof.. and some bucks are hard to tell, but most 1 1/2 are so easy to tell.. and for the hunter that really believes in AR they should learn andpass on them, cause shooting those 6 and 8's are the ones you should pass till the next year... i also dont think many bucks will be saved w/ a 2 pt limit.. but again its a start and they can fix that in other years... i do wish you all luck...

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

I would have preferred to see an AR of 3pt on one side, but I am happy that we have AR at all.

You need to have a little background on the average number of points. In Vermont, a point is listed as a "discernable" point. There was no measurement of at least an inch. The old saying of "if you can hang a ring on it, it is a point" was in effect. The AR rule says that it must be at least one inch long. I think this alone will hold off a lot of people from dropping the hammer.

Still, let's look at a hypothetical situation on an average of 2.9 points. Let's say there are 100 1.5 year old bucks. A third have 2 pts, a third have 3 pts, and a third have 4 pts. This averages to 2.99 points per deer (a little higher than our true average), but I think these are reasonable assumptions. Let's assume that all the 2 pointers survive (33 deer). Let's also assume that half of our 3 pointers survive due to hunters not being sure if that third point is an inch or not (16 deer). Finally let's assume that 5% of our 4 pointers survive (2 deer). If you add it all up that's 51 deer out of 100 that would survive - or 51%. I'll take that success rate any day.

. . . Rob

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

Sounds good on paper, but you're not going to kill all 100 with or without AR. I think you said(or somebody said)60% of your harvest is 1-1/2 yo bucks. That would mean out of your 100 you'd only be killing 60 to start with. I'll give you all of the spikes...none should be shot sowe have 33 saved. Now how do you figure in the rest of them?I'll admit that AR's willhelp, but I don't think it's going to be a drastic change.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

I really don't see this as an antler restriction. If they really wanted to accomplish something they should have carried it a point or two further, say 3 points to one side. Most of those little four pointers that everyone whacks are 1 1/2 years old. If they'd let them live(and I'm not necessaryily a QDM let-em-grow guy) they'd see some real changes in 3 or 4 years. If those1 1/2 year olds could make it to 2 1/2, a lot more of them would survive to be 4 and 5. That extra year of learning to avoid and hide from man really helps them and gives them a sure enough chance to make it to 3 and 4 and 5 years old. The two point rule doesn't do anything the old rules of One point 3 inches long didn't do.

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

I agree with davidmill - its not an Antler Restriction - as we know it.

Its more a legal distinction between a"Antlerless & Antlered"

Its a start - but thats about it.

FH

RE: Vermont Passes Antler Restriction
 

Good for VT, I just wish they would go to something similar in NJ, even 3 pts per side...