lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

I'm afraid it's a no win situation here in PA for our game commission.Danged if they do and danged if they don't.I'm hearing alot of talk of hunters hanging it up which will make it more expensive for the remaining hunters to buy a license.So then I expect some of them will quit.Man I can't tell you when the last time was I saw a youngster out hunting.
Now we know deer hunting is our bread and butter here in PA.But honestly if an adult is stuck hunting on public land he can't keep thAt youngster interested with 5-12 dpsm.In plain words those are unhuntable numbers.
Then there's the USP.The lawsuit and against the PGC is going to do more harm then good.This agency is for the hunters plain and simple.They are just stuck in a rock and hard place getting pressure from both sides on the deer issue.The DCNR and audobon are lickin their chops waiting for a take-over.If the USP wants to sue anybody it should go after the DCNR.
There's quite a few hunters who are done hunting the state forests.So how is the DCNR going to keep the herd at 5dpsm?Another story I suppose.
I hate to be so doom and gloom but I really don't see any way the PGC can survive these issues.
If any of you guys feel they can survive all this I'd like to see your ideas.

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

I think your concerns are valid Germain. I dont really have a solution but I think the first thing that Pa's hunters can do is to get behind the PGC on license increases. Without the money to run things they will get swallowed up. (Likely by DCNR) The bickering and lawsuit threats from lunatic fringes like Unified works right into the hand of those who would like to the PGC, as we know it, disappear.

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

I agree BT we need to stick together!! Suing each other certainly isn't the answer. [:@]

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

Contact Rep. Bruce Smith about the license increase. It is all in his court and he alone is holding it up at this point.

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

The USP has no legal grounds to sue the DCNR since the DCNR does not have the legal authority to control the herd on their property any more than a private land owner. The PGC , on the other hand , put the interests of the forestry industry and the Audubon, above the interests of hunters and are now paying the price.Increasing the price of licenses now will only provide more incentive for hunters to quit.

The PGC knows they are running a deficit, yet they implemeneted a deer management plan that will be much more expensive than the previous system. Before they relied on the USFS survey of forested habitat to establish OWDD goals. The new system will require PGC staff to monitor the conditions of the habitat every year statewide. The PGC ,simply does not have the staff or the resources to acomplish that, so the new plan won't be any better than the old plan and could be alot worse.

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

ddear,The DCNR is putting too much political pressure on the PGC to go along with their program.In plain words I feel the PGC is afraid of them.
It may sound paranoid but I feel there's more to this then what theDCNR is letting on.Sure some areas needed herd reduction but they are pushing for such a low number of deer they know dang well the desired numbers are unhuntable.They know people can't hunt a 5 dpsm number in a vast woods.The DCNR has threatened the PGC twice already.Now two commissioners are simply asking how low they want their numbers to go and the biologists won't give them an answer.There's more to this then meets the eye and the blame goes to the DCNR.
If the lawsuit would go in favor of the USP where would that let us?Probably with a take-over or merger.And we think the deer numbers are low now?Wait till audobon/DCNR get their paddies on deer management!

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

DD is a perfect example of whats wrong in the hunting fraternity. Never any positive ideas, just negative...... that won't work, this can't be done, it's all the PGC's fault, the sky is falling, rehash rehash rehash.

If this is truly a lose-lose situation, the likes of DD and USP have helped make it so[:'(]

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

One can blame the USP and the hunters all you want, but it is the PGC that created the changes that resulted in all the dissention. The PGC and those thatoppose the currrent plan have no control over the sseasins ,anterless allocations or AR's and those are the issues that are creating the dissention.

BTW, I said along time ago that it would be huge improvement if the included the carrying capacity of all of the habitat and that is the direction in which they are moving. How ever the benefits of that move will probably be negated by the selection of indicator plants that are highly sensitive to deer browsing. Some biologists say some species of plants can be adversely effected at 25% of the max. carrying capacity.

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

My hope is that they can reach a huntable number with the habitat,common ground sort of speak.Obviously the amount of deer the habitat can support is important but so is deer hunting in PA.I think the PGC knows this hence the questions by commissioners to the DCNR.

BT,I didn't mean to rehash the same old topic but at the same time I don't think we can turn our heads on a serious problem.A merger would be very bad news for all of us and we need to pay attention to it.On the other hand the numbers desired by the DCNR are unhuntable and as a result will lead to fewer hunters in PA which will make the financial shortfalls even more of a problem for the PGC.
I gotta tell ya I think groups such as DCNR and audobon are the threat to hunting in PA.

RE: lOSE-LOSE SITUATION
 

You don't have to worry about the DCNR. They got their forests recertified and they got all the DMAP tags they wanted. What you should worry about is the PGC's plan to base future OWDD goals on indicator plants and other totally subjective criteria.