any michigan guys with dnr insight??
 

So this past week on the 16th we were gun hunting on our lease. Me and my buddy were hunting about 200yds from eachother. He shot at a doe that was alot farther than he thought and cleanly missed and checked to make sure. 5 mins after he shot i shot a big mature doe that ran about 60 yds and i saw go down in a corn feild. A few minutes later my buddy shot a doe and it ran right past him and he saw it go down in some thick stuff. This all happened jsut before dark, and we generally give deer time weither it be with gun or bow just to make sure. So we packed up and walked back to camp. Upon arriving back at camp a pickup comes flying in the drive and right up to us. It was the one and only dnr in the county. He gets out saying, heard alot of guns shots you guys get anything. To which me and my buddy said we both shot does. He asked if there tagged yet. We said no we just got down and headed to camp to change, give them time and the rest of the gang before we recover them. He replied, not gonna work. They have to be tagged immediatly. now alittle insight on this. Our neighbor down there is the biggest a@3hole ever and has been bragging about being buddies with the dnr all summer. And this guys phone was going off the hook with way more important stuff than randomly checking us out. so we believe he was doing a favor. So anyways he went back there with us to get them, and ended up writing us tickets for failure to immediatly tag them. He spent about an hour there trying to get anything he could on us but that was it. We dindt argue the ticket at the time since we didnt know better. but after talking to people it seems to be a load of bs, since we hadnt touch the deer, didnt gather them, didnt do anything with them. I was told that it is illegal to be in the woods with no tag, so if the case was this was our last tag and we went to the deer and tagged it we could get fined for having a gun in the woods without a tag. and the fact that we did not collect the deer we got out of the woods.

we were also told that we didnt have to take the dnr back there, we could have just said there back there and pointed and that it is his job to find out. obv we were just doing everythign to coraperate thinking we hadnt done anything wrong. But seeing this is a 180 dollar fine do we have a chance fighting it?

I would try to fight it in court if I were you. I consulted our game laws and sure enough, it says, "Immediately after killing a deer.........., you must validate your kill tag....." However, if for example, you gut shoot your deer, and attempt to recover it immediately, you are likely to loose it forever and the animal will waste in some location you're unlikely to never find. I am sure our state, in its infinite wisdom has some law against that too. In most cases, how can you be positive of your shot placement?? The question is, how do you know exactly when the animal expires..especially if the shot placement can't be precisely known?? I think most judges would look at this DNR official (if he had the balls to show up at the hearing) and ask why he is wasting the court's time with such a frivolous ticket and maybe remand him back to school for additional education!

I agree with Jackson Bowner.....take it to court.

#1, take it to court. You'll win. You have no idea when EXACTLY a deer expires and you are not required to leap out of your stand and sprint after a fleeing deer to put the take on it the second it's dead. It is standard practice to give it awhile before locating it -- especially since you had NOT even gone up to and officially located the deer or touched it.

#2, if you have that DNR officer's number call him and demand contact information for his supervisor. Make it clear you want to file a complaint against him for this, and follow through, especially once you win in court.

My experiences with MI DNR have been very negative. We had the same, a neighbor who was best buds with the local DNR guy. I hunted our field within 1/2 mile of where the DNR guy lived. Three times in 2 seasons the neighbor called the DNR after I discharged a ML on a deer to say I was shooting a rifle. Three times the DNR guy came out and I patiently showed him my ML. The third time, I informed him that I knew he was friends with the neighbor and that the neighbor was calling him out on me. I proceeded to explain to him that it was now documented that he had investigated me 3 times on false accusations, and the fourth time I was calling the sheriff and pursuing charges for hunter harassment. That was the end of it.

Sounds like the officer was being pretty nit-picky.

Technically the law says you have to tag the deer immediately. But, since you haven't attempted to recover the deer yet, how can you tag them? You can't tag them until you recover them.

When I shoot a deer on my place I typically let it lay. I go back to camp and get out of my heavy hunting cloths. I then put on my light weight waders(my place is primarily swamp), get my Jet Sled Jr plastic sled that I use for dragging deer, and then I go out and recover my deer. Then when I get to the deer the first thing I do is tag it. But, for the 45 minutes to an hour it is laying out there it does not have a tag on it.

One other thing. I don't know why it is any of this officer's business how much shooting you do if you are on private property. If I want to walk around my woods and shoot at trees, that is not the DNR's business.

This is awesome advice I wouild take right here..Walt

thankyou for all your opinions. We are fairly confident we have a case here and have a good chance of winning. Another issue that was brought to our concern is this. We both have our cpls, and we were told that this ticket is a misadeamor/sp, and that when it comes time to renew our cpl we could have issues if this remains on our records. anyone have more insight on this?

I would fight it. I do not see anything about misdemeanors related to hunting on the macomb county web site however I do not have my gun law book with me to double check this. I would consult your gun law book and or call your local police station and inquire.

http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10926--,00.html

First let me say I am sorry that you were cited for this. I personally would not hold it against you or consider you some sort of bad guy.

But I wouldn't be confident about anything. This is a double edged sword of sorts. The law is the law and if I am correct, as in IL, it probobly says that you must tag your kill immediately upon harvest. Sure if you didn't walk up to the down deer you don't know for sure you even actually successfully harvested, so there is that. But the law might say something about making every effort to retrieve. (IMO allowing the deer to fully expire without spooking or running him off IS the most ethical thing a hunter can do, and most likely give a hunter the highest chance of retrieving it.)

I think if you were to have remained nearby and waited and then approached the deer that were down, tagging them upon contact, this would have been avoided. I am not judging or saying anyone did anything wrong - or right.

IMO the CPO's position is absolutely going to be that by a hunter leaving a shot deer laying with the tags still in his possession the hunter might be tempted to either shoot another "easier to recover" deer or a bigger deer and leave the other unrecovered. (And I have seen that happen.)

From what you have posted my personal view of this is:

1. You were approached.

1. You willingly and honestly offered up all the facts.

2. You hid nothing.

3. You made no attempt to hide anythng.

4. You willingly located and directed the officer to the deer.

5. You were fully co-operative.

6. You demonstrated no intentional illegal intent.

7. You demonstrated an ethical attitude and behavior.

Therefore the CPO (IMO) would have best served by informing you of the letter of the law and the reason(s) supporting it. You most likely would have readily accepted the info and thanked him for his understanding of your position and assured him full compliance in the future.

All sides would have been well served.

1) take it to court

2) file a complaint against the CO

Chief, Law Enforcement, Gary Hagler
phone: 517-335-3427
e-mail: [email protected]

I have had my problems with the MDNR
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/deer...-officers.html

Thanks for all the replies! We are taking this to court as we feel it is absurd. Hopefully good will come out of it as well as not having to pay 180 dollars for something we dont feel is right.

keep us posted on the outcome.

I agree it looks like a misuse of authority. fight it !

i would fight it. I was harrassed by a conservation officer while goose hunting about 10 years ago while in my blind at the todd farm in allegan area. He was trying to get me and my dad out of our blind because we only had one more bird to shoot before we tagged out and was pissed that we were still there, because like he said there are other customers at the todd farm HQ that were waiting to get our blind. Who' working for whom???????

In the process he ruined the last flock coming in for us, took all of the birds, and proceeded to check my gun over for the plug and check my shot shells. He made me get on the ground and account for all my shot shells. When i couldn't account for a few missing shells he got really pissed. And then he tells me me shot shells were illegal for that year, new law for that size ( didn't know the jackass at wal-mart said that they were legal for the year) i should've known better. Well i got a $200 ticket and checks over my dads yukon.
I lost alot of respect for their authority and have to question why they exist.

all in all fight the sob.

I think I'd take this one to court, too - for all the reasons that Uncle Matt listed. Having been in court a couple of times, I'd be sure to be very polite and respectful, but simply point out the facts. You were trying to be good conservationists by not immediately pushing deer that might escape if you had. You had every intention of tagging your animals as soon as you found them.
You can never know what's going through a CO's mind, so you can't really judge his motives. But sometimes they get confused, and sometimes they are just plain wrong.
Last year a CO walked up on my wife who was sitting in her pop up ground blind and told here that she needed to get some identification on it. I checked the rules and for the Type 1 (Portable Ground Blind) it clearly says, "No identification is required." The only ground blind that requires ID is the Type 3 (Constructed Ground Blinds).
He probably just got mixed up on the different types in that case, but in your situation, it does appear that he was pushing the interpretation of the law to the limits - and beyond. There was nothing in your behavior that indicated anything but what you have said.

You're a lot nicer than me. I expect a DNR officer to know the regulations backwards and forwards -- it is their JOB, after all, if they get confused how can they hold a hunter to them???

The example posted by another member regarding albino deer in MI is another shining example or rampant stupidity in the organization.

My favorite was when they started limiting anterless tags to 3/hunter....and have since kept expanding the seasons to try and take more antlerless deer. Well, remove the stupid reg limiting those willing to shoot does to 3! If someone doesn't want to shoot does having a 12 month season won't do anything to get the population down. I went from shooting 6-7/yr to 3, nobody else in the area was taking up the slack a guarantee it.

Was this on the East side of the state by chance???

Had you tagged your deer the CO would have potentially approached you with a weapon and no tag if this was your last kill tag. I do not see how it would have went any better in that instance. Fight it as it is a BS ticket, you never actually went to find the deer before heading back to camp. How are you to know that they were dead?

Here is an update for the time being. This happend on the west side of the state. In the battle creek area. WE had a preliminary court on the 5th of jan. The dnr officer was not present just the two of us and a witness i brought and the magistrate. He was really harsh with us at first. And did admit to not reading the papers yet bc his computer had crashed, and our court papers said failure to tag. Which could have been anything. After explaining our story to the magistrate he immediately calmed down and told us he actually did this exact same things this fall. He shot a large buck and went back to the house and had dinner and went back out after it an hour later. So needless to say he was a big hunter as well and understood why we did what we did and felt as if we did no wrong. He is personally gonna talk to the officer and if his story is the same he will ask the case to be dropped personally as he feels it ridiculous. so in the meantime were waiting to hear back from them. Brad

Let us know the resolution....

There should be a penalty to CO's for writing BS tickets and abusing their power, but of course there never is so they will keep doing it when it suits them.

Well an update. My buddy and my trail got split up. His was last wednesday. He was there for 5 mins and never said a word and the plantiff just said these tickets are being dropped. My trail was today, was written on paper work as non jury trail. Exactly as his was. Upon arriving I see the dnr officer there and think crap to myself. The plaintiff pulled me in the room and said the officer was not dropping the charges do to the fact that I had to walk right past my deer to go back to camp. Even though my deer was 100 yards to the south of my stand, and my camp is directly north of my stand. Plaintiff said well it all just seems fishy that ur gun hunters and u wouldn't just go up to the deer and if it gets up and runs to shoot it again. I said what's being ethical about that?? Not only that but I'm shooting a single shot and not gonna rish that,plus is was almost dark and I'm not gonna shoot after hours. So instead I sat in my tree and watched it thru another tree, all the while its head was up and moving around and ears straight up and its fawn sitting there watvhing her die. I watched it till I could no longer seeing do to it getting dark and then climbed down and walked the OTHER way to camp to give it time. The plaintiff resonds well it just seems fishy, and its ur word verses him. So I have to options, fist plead innocent and have a bench trail right then. Which I was informed nothing ab and was by no means ready. If I win, I'm out. If I lose I face 1500 in restition, and jail time.
Second option, plead guilty, and pay court costs, ticket fee and have 6 months probation.
So I asked the plaintiff what my chances were of winning and he said against this judge, ull loose.

So I had NO options, I'm not a legal person and don't know whaty rights were.

In our first trail, the plaintiff spec said if it is going to be dropped you will get notivication. If not u will be assigned to a jury trail. And seeing my paperweork saying nothing of a jury or traill, and being the exact same as my freinds whose was dropped I was not planningon a trail, or I woulda came with an attonerny and witness. But basically they had me by the balls and can say whatever they want and there right no matter how right we are. So I had to plead guilty as I didn't have a chance at that point.

Just all seems rediculous. That there right and can come up with what ever they want and win. And we as the public have no rights and no say. I am 100 percent not at fault for what he is claiming me off but yet I don't have any rights.

I'm seriously thinking about hanging up my hunting career. I spend over 10k a year on hunting egupiment, tages guns, and take off work from oct 1 till jan 1 just for hunting. And spend everyday of it in the woods atleast a few hours. A day. But crap like this just doesn't make it worth it to me no matter how big of a passion it is.

I've been following this and sorry man, that really sucks. It is ridiculous getting in trouble for not tagging a deer that IS'NT DEAD YET!
Fact is, most don't know that you did the right thing, and that most of us would have done the same thing.
Was this the same judge as the preliminary court?
Will you lose your hunting rights for next season, or no?

That really sucks. Sounds like a pretty crappy Judge and DNR officer. The DNR officer sounds like he is trying to rack up as many convictions as possible. There used to be a site out there that dealt was called "ask a Conservation Officer" I think the guy who pushed the site used to talk about it on here. I'd get some other opinions from some other officers. I think youre screwed no matter what though. That really sucks. Good luck with everything.

I'm not sure on the correct term for the guy that we met with in the preliminary and this time. He is the one that appointed the case to the judge and talked to the dnr officer about matching our story. Madgistrate?!?! Idk, he was the one giving me my options and tellling me I wouldn't win. Where as in our preliminary he said it would prolly be dissmissed. But appearently we as citizens have no rights and government officialls can blately lie to get there way. I wish there was or new of something we could file against the officer put at this point idk what I can do.

As of right now I am allowed to hunt next season. I'm on 6 months probation, so I can't have anything go on my record. If I have something go on my record I will more than likely lose my hunting rights as well as restitution.

Its just really unfortunate. Spec right now I would love nothing more to be in the woods coyote hunting. But being on probation, it scares the crap out of me to even step foot in the woods. If the oficer can do that why not do it again???

I guess it's too late now, but mistake #1 is taking legal advice from the people trying to prosecute you.

It's been awhile since I was involved in a court case in MI but I believe you must request a jury trial and have the right to do so. This would have had to be done at the time it was scheduled to go to trial.