jessejmc1979

Handles how many times are you going to try to turn this around on the hunters. You never answered my question (what 5 or 6 pages ago) when I asked you if the dnr doesn't need to regulate the numbers of game harvested why do we have limits for every wild creature in wisconsin except deer. If hunters are dumb like you say the only proof would be listening to the dnr when they told us to shoot as many does as we can it will help the herd. Come on admit that they dropped the ball, on second thought just wait it out maybe you'll change your tune when all of us hunters stand together and get somethings changed.

mr.mc54

Handles- I am mad at my neighbors!

Will that do any good? I think not, as long as the DNR miss leads the hunters by screwed up surveys.
most hunters are good and lumping every one in the "dumb or stupid) category is just wrong. Most hunters as I see it are or should I say were just trusting in what the DNR told them and were just trying to thin out the herd. Lets face it alot of guys don't get out in the field as much as farmers do and see that the herd is so low. When you are out there every day you can see what is on your land.

You still didn't answer my question- ( Do you hunt on your own land or on a dumb or stupid farmers)?

MarquetteMagnum

Don't worry guys CHANGE is comeing! Obama will bring back the deer!

mr.mc54

I agree with ya on that one!!!

Without guns we'll have to use sharp sticks!

Trapper22

I live in crawford county and work in the state of Iowa that has a thriving deer herd. Allamakee and Clayton county Iowa are some of the best deer countryin the U.S.for chances at big bucks. I work with several deer hunters in Iowa that see more deer on one drive than I'll see in 10 years hunting in grant or crawford county WI. The adage of we have toget the population at a 2 does to 1 buck ratio to get larger bucks is not true. Iowa is proof of that.The Lovesten buck came out of centralIowa. There are several monsters shot over there every year. When watching hunting shows anymore the 2 states they usually head to for monster whitetails are Iowa and Illinois. I know that Wisconsin has Buffalo county but that's about it for the entire state for a go to area, and part of that is because so much land up there is under control of leases to get bigger deer. In Iowa I know for a fact you have a good chance of shooting the buck of a lifetime on public ground. I'm not saying that can't happen in Wisconsin but I'd much rather have Iowas deer herd than ours. The chance of shooting a big onewhile seeing quite a few deer at the same time isvirtually a gurantee.Their DNR seems to actually listen to the hunters.

I was over at a freinds house the night of thelast day of our deer season and was talking to him and his neighbor. They were skinning a couple of does in his garage they had shot that day. They went out for aboutan hour and each got a doe and saw over 20 deer that night. Iowa had an early antlerless season that weekend and will have one the end of Dec. as well. However the kill during Iowas regular 2 shotgun season which the second one ends tomorrow is down so the DNR in Iowa is already wondering if the extra antlerless seasons are even needed next year. That is a DNR that is looking out for the health of the deer herd and what the hunters who buy the licenses that fund the wages and programs want as well. Wisconsin DNR are you listening?? Are you smart enough to listen??

While I was over there that night, my freinds neighbor flat out said if theIowa DNRever screws up the deer herdlike Wisconsin's has managed to do he'd be done hunting.He works with huntersfrom Wisconsin and hesaid there's no way he could go out gun hunting and not see a deer all day or only4 or 5 all year. They shoot plenty of does over there and also shoot some awesome bucks as well. The proof of thatis the racks the 2 of them have which are several8 to 12 pointers with 16 to 20 inch spreads even while seeing a lot of does and harvesting quite a few. Iowa also has an early youth season which this guys daughter (I think shes around 10 or 12)took part in. It was her first hunt ever.They went out for about 20 minutes one night and she dropped a nice 10 pointer which is almost the size of the biggest buck I've every shot in 25 years of hunting in WI. So in no way shape or form does shooting every doein sight and killing the herd to get it to a 2 to 1 ratio increase the amount of big bucks in an area. The proof is across the river in Iowa!!!

The biggestlive buck I saw this year was in Iowawhile driving aroundan area of public ground. I went over there one night and my freind and I went for aquickdrive and wesaw around 25 that night includingthe above mentioned 10 or 12 pointer. It was the first time I'd seen over 4 deer in a group in over 10 years. I just don't see deer like that in WI. but I sure wish I did.

mr.mc54

I HEAR YA!!!!

What would it hurt to have more deer? As long as they aren't starving and there is cover and food whats it to the DNR. You know when everything started to head south was when CWD was discovered. Then the DNR over reacted and started to change their philosophy to lets kill them all. There is no Known case where CWD has affected a human and yet they are trying to eliminate deer in those areas. If I lived there ( over my cold dead body would anyone kill deer on my land).
You can see by the pictures of monster bucks that have been taken that the DNR is full of s..t.

In Iowa there is plenty of food and cover to support the deer and we could have the same thing here. I just can't understand why CWD is even a concern. It may have been here for years. I used to live in Waukesha County WI in the 60's and I know I saw deer that were probably ill with CWD and no-one knew it. We killed deer that were skinney and looked ill and left them. That was the right thing to do(just like cattle). In this day and age deer could do well with 1 deer per acre, sounds crazy but one acre can feed a cow on my area. Deer feed on my hay bales and silage bunkers and I don't mind. They were here first! Many people from the city feel that a deer feeding in their petunias is the worst thing that could happen. Well who was here first? If you don't like wild life in your yard -stay in the city. I believe that is the problem with car kills too. A person who is used to seeing deer on the road drives carefully and watches for deer.

So who is the blame here, the deer or us ? I think a neighbor said it right , when he said that he is going around our area and asking every farmer to forgo deer hunting next year. We are going to manage the deer our selfs. this will be aprox. 2000 acres of refuge next year. This will put our numbers back to where they should be in one year. We don't care what the DNR thinks cause this is our land . Its funny that you mention Bufflo county. I don't know if you know this but many farmers and land owners have been doing this for years(managing their deer herd. See what can be done with selective management. They hardly ever kill does - unless it need be. You can have does and bucks and still have large bucks. Its what we as hunters are willing to do.

OUT WEST CWD HAS BEEN AROUND FOR MANY MANY YEARS AND DO THEY ERADICATE THE DEER OR ELK HERDS? no, They let nature take its course.

MAY BE IM WRONG IN FEELING THE WAY I DO - BUT WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?

Bukmastr

They ain't done killing yet... We are still not to there insane goals of 10 per square mile and 5 per square in the CWD units...
I have heard DNR representatives make very disrespectful claims about the ethics of "Trophy hunters" I have also heard them make claim that people should be proud and happy of all deer harvested... They look down on those who wish not to shoot babies. Truth be told, a higher level of hunter is the man ( or woman ) who lets the young deer have a chance to live life and waits for a mature animal. The WDNR is structuring the herd so less than 1% of the deer make it to maturity. Thats just sick!
And thats not the way nature intended it to be. I have nothing against someone who is new to hunting, or disabled, or old, or lacking in skill and rarely gets a deer ( we have all heard of the guy who waits several years to shoot a deer ) shooting the occasional young deer...
But there is something wrong with the thinking that experienced, educated hunters should be happy taking baby animals every year...
The WDNR thinks we are the ones with the bad ethics... They are the ones promoting killing babies... A button buck fawn gets kicked out of the family group before he is old enough to even know what a hunter is... Without its mothers protection it enters the gun season as the stupidest deer in the woods... Its no surprise to me that almost 50% of the "does" shot during the antlerless and EAB slaughter are button bucks... In the public marsh by me they have already killed every button buck out there between the EAB bow hunters, the early gun doe slaughter, Muzzleloader, and the regular gun deer season.
But that ain't good enough for the WDNR... Just in case there is still one fawn living, They are having another 4 day gun antlerless slaughter this weekend and then they are going to have another 2 weeks of rifle season at the end of the year...

mr.mc54

BUCKMASTR:

I think most hunters want the same thing. Deer numbers are the most important thing. When you sit all day and don't see deer you start to wonder what is wrong with this picture. Some say we should be satisfied with just being able to be out there, but I can't swallow that. I don't care if I shoot a deer, but I do want to see some. There are guys who say we are selfish to think that way, (it's hunting). You know its no different than fishing-you want to catch fish or you will go home. I am convinced that we can't keep shooting baldies and have a balanced herd. I have said before that in them baldies are our future big bucks. Most hunters know that but the propaganda the DNR has blown up our bottom side had us doing it just so we could shoot a buck. I truely think the hunters of this state are going to demand the DNR to listen to us.

ONE WAY OR THE OTHER DEER WILL HAVE A REFUGE ON MY LAND NEXT YEAR!

IAGREE WITH YOUR POST- GOOD STUFF!

cayugad

Something else to help the DNR.. if we get record snow falls this winter and continued freezing weather, that will help the DNR wipe out even more deer with the Winter Kill. In the north, deep snow makes the deer yard up. That should make the timber wolves real happy. Nothing they like more then an easy meal.

TJD

Yes, so have I. I have also heard the intimation that trophy hunting is "the problem", that because hunters don't make the massive "meat" drives of 25 years ago, we now have a "deer population problem". Let's assume that such a problem exists: I will acknowledge that some areas do have an issue with deer populations that might be above what the long term capacity of the land can support. But if such a problem does really exist, how did it get this way?

Again, let's take a trip down recent memory lane.
[ol][*]Until just a few years back (2004, I believe), many hunters statewide were forced to apply for a "hunters choice" sticker for the "privledge" of harvesting a doe with your regular gun tag. In fact, it 2004, hunters in the following units had to apply: DMUs 7, 10, 11, 16, 26, 31, 32, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 44, 45, 49A, 49B, 50, 52, 55, 56, 57A, 58, 60A, 69, and 73D. That's a lot of units where apparently there was no real issue with population. If there WAS such an issue, why put hunters through the nonsense of applying for the sticker?[*]Until2004, hunters had to apply for antlerless tags in most units. Again, where was the crisis? If over population is such an issue, are we to believe that it occured overnight and was not as serious 4 short years ago?[/ol]
I'm not suggesting that the DNR need estimate deer population with a high degree of accuracy. My point is it is obvious that if the deer population has gotten excessive across much of the state, then the DNR deserves a big part of the blame. Deer are not like bacteria in a petrie dish; they do not multiply exponentially overnight. Such population growth takes time. So where was the DNR when this was occuring?.

Or, we can look at this another way. As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, in the unit I hunt, unit 61, the overwinter target has been lowered three times in 15 years, suddenly making our unit "overpopulated". Had it not been for a lot of squawking from landowners and outfitters in Buffalo County two years ago, we would still be stuck at a ridiculously low target instead of the 20 deer per square mile we have now (BTW...it used to be 25 in 1994...not sure why we needed a 20% reduction in target to begin with, but 20% is better than the 40% we were going to have). Could it just be that the whole issue of a "deer management crisis" was simply created to justify holding on to funds that the DNR might not be able to justify if they were to say things were fine?

As for 2008, even DNR spokesman Warnke admitted that the results this year are not due to lack of hunter effort. He further acknowledged that the lower harvest cannot be attributed to weather. Hmmmm....seems like that leaves a grossly erroneous population estimate.

Buckmastr, you are also right about the numbers of nub bucks that buy it. This nonsense has to stop!