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-   -   wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/midwest/276409-wisconsin-dnr-crazy.html)

vindog 12-14-2008 11:43 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I also am fed up with the DNR's bullcrap. I will not be buying a gun tag next year either.I have written tothe DNR about my thoughts ( not that it will do any good) and will also be contacting my state rep. I think the lead DNR officials should have a 3-4 year term like other state officials. That would almost force them to listen to the people or else they would be out the door. When the DNR screws up the counts on wolves, bears, deer, and still makes you apply for a turkey tag when they are all over the place, some people should be losing there jobs.

Trapper22 12-14-2008 01:38 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I do agree with the statment of some people don't respect the landowner and that iratates me. I do hunt on private land mostly and also hunt alone. As far as the leaving gates open and cutting fences that actually happened where I hunt at this fall before deer season. I was down there looking around and noticed that the chain to close a padalocked gate had been cut. I walked back up to my truck and took an S-link out of a tarp strap and grabbed a pair of pliers and put the chain back together. The cattle were out for the year already and I told the landowners son in law about it during hunting season so he could let them know. I think it's only right to fix a fence if you see a problem with it. I always carry pliers in my truck and can usually come up with an old fence clip or patch it to hold. I walk around down there periodically through out the year anyway.

Two years ago I locked 2 head of cattle in that were left there by the guy that rented the pasture from them. One of them was very wild and wouldn't go near people the other one was left as a companion for him.I was feeding them well into Dec. after there was snow on the ground. I had bought 100# of shelled corn at the feed storeand seemed to care more about them than the guy that owned them. He doesn't rent the pasture there anymore either. The night I locked those in it was snowing like crazy and I had went down to check on them and put more corn out for them. When I got there and started walking in the lower pasture looking for them I noticed the landowner had been down there that day as there were tire tracks in the snow and the gate between the upper and lower pasture was open. They had also dropped some hay down and had a trail going to the coral at the upper pasture.I followed the hay up and caught the cattle in the coral andlocked them in. I then walked back down to the lower end, went home and called them. I asked them if they had been trying to get them in and they said yes. They weren't theirs but they were trying to get them in so they wouldn't starve to death. This is a very isolated area and distance between the upper and lower pasture is approx1 to 1 1/2 miles. I told them they were in and they could go get them. They wereappreciative of that and I was glad to do it because they allow me to hunt there. We wound up getting about 6 inches of snow that night plus there already was snow on the ground.I also picked the hay up around the outside of the coral and put it in there in case they didn't get down there right away.I went back a couple days later and they had gotten them out.

I know a lot of people wouldn't have done what I did but please don'tlump everyone in the same catagory. I've hunted that land for 25 years and the landowner is in his 80's I don't know how long I'll be able to keep hunting there but it's about the only area I know.My dad grewup in that area and that's howwe got hunting it. When he passed away he wanted his ashes spread out down there so it's also a sentimental thing as well. I know the day is coming that I may not be able to hunt that area and it's one I'm dreading.

I knowI got off topic but not all people that ask to hunt on your land are the same. I can't afford to get into a high dollar lease but $15.00 isn't muchand I couldafford that myself. I just can't afford the $100.00 to $300.00 some people charge for the chance to shoot a deer. If it ever comes to that it will be public land or I'll quit hunting all together.

Trapper22

mr.mc54 12-14-2008 06:18 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
TRAPPER-you are an exception to the rule! I am either checking fence or running hunters a..es off my land. I would give any one permission w/o any fees if they would just ask for permission and treat my kindness with respect. I once was a hunter who didn't have a place to hunt and you know what I did was ask permission first-and never bring anyone along w/o asking first. I always gave the farmer or land owner a gift of beer,cheese box or just ask if I could give him a hand with something. (THAT GOES A LONG WAYS) I don't ask for money-to me thats not what its about. But it really gets me when guys sneak on my land, then they will meet our sheriff.

I know not every one is like that but one guy can make a farmer or land owner not let any one on!!!

I also make sure our management rules are obeyed by every one on my land and I don't think I ask for too much.

I wish all hunters that read this would think about what a privelage it is to have a place to hunt.

rage2blade 12-15-2008 05:54 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
So you guys that are all in an uproar about the dnr like i am, how long will it take the deer heard back to where it was in the "GLORY DAYS"

TJD 12-15-2008 06:32 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

So you guys that are all in an uproar about the dnr like i am, how long will it take the deer heard back to where it was in the "GLORY DAYS"
I don't expect...or want...it to get back to the so-called "glory days"where I would see 80 to 100 deer opening day, and of that total 70% were does and fawns, a bunch of 4 and 6 pointers, and if we got REALLY lucky we would see one halfway decent buck about every other year.

What I would like to see is a little more of the following:
[ol][*]A DNR that looks to work in partnership with hunters and landowners. Not a DNR that comes up with brainless ideas like having sharpshooters in helicopters shoot deer at night with spotlights in the CWD zone.[*]While we're at it, a DNR that tries to LISTEN to landowners as to how they would like to approach deer management.[*]Deer season structure that is not simply based on a bunch of government bureaucrats looking at computer printouts, who then use the output to confirm an already existing bias of overpopulation. Hey guys...farmers will have hunters shoot more deer if there is too much deer damage, landowners looking for trophies will shoot does to get the ratios in order, we ALL have a stake in getting it right and not simply letting the population explode...you guys at the DNR are not the only ones with a stake in having the deer population at a sustainable level.[/ol]
Will it happen? Depends on how much pressure is brought to bear. I have already contacted the appropriate state assembly members and state senator. Hopefully, more will do the same.


mr.mc54 12-15-2008 08:07 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
TJD- And any one else who might be interested in this !!!!!!

I got a letter today from my congress man in which he said things have to change. He did a survey and maybe you were in on it that said sportsmen are very upset with the way the DNR is doing.
Some of the very same things we have been talking about- (the earn a buck,Dnr having preconcieved opinions before the meetings, Baiting,poor deer survey countsand other concerns.) Hey we have their attention!!!!!

I urge every person that reads this post- call your congress man or woman and let them know what you think. NOW IS THE TIME!!!!! WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF WE STICK TOGETHER.
WE HAVE THEM ON THEIR HEELS- IF WE CAN GET OUR CONGRESS MEN AFTER THEM THEN WE HAVE A CHANCETO TURN THIS AROUND.

IAGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID BROTHER AND SO DO SEVERAL THOUSAND OTHER HUNTERS!





























































Tbone1187 12-16-2008 03:21 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
how do you find the senitors to call i have already sent a letter to the dnr

Handles 12-17-2008 08:38 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
800,000 hunters all trying to shoot bucks only next year. Back to a 20:1 doe/buck ratio. Great, just like the "good old days" when a 1 1/2 y.o, 6 pointer was the bull of the woods.

UPHunter08 12-17-2008 11:48 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

ORIGINAL: Handles

800,000 hunters all trying to shoot bucks only next year. Back to a 20:1 doe/buck ratio. Great, just like the "good old days" when a 1 1/2 y.o, 6 pointer was the bull of the woods.
While not optimal, I'd prefer that over seeing 2 deer per day. I'm probably not alone in this regard.

mr.mc54 12-17-2008 12:13 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ITS GREAT TO RUFFLE YOUR FEATHERS AGAIN HANDLES!!!!!!

Back to inteligent thinking again- Don't write the DNR they are the problem! Find out who your representatives are and write them, they are your person to voice your views. My rep. isPat Kreitlow. I know the DNR is not going to listen until our reps. start nipping at their heels. There are (800,000 hunters as Handles say's) that have had enough.

Back to Handles- What do you think the DNR will do when it is taken out of their hands? If you are a casualty of lay offs so be it. Our NATURAL RESOURCES ARE MORE INPORTANT than a few employees that can't count.

Pat Kreitlow Wisconsin Western District (888)437-9436
Web-htp://www.legis.state.wi..us/senate/sen23/news/

If you don't know your rep is use this web site & it will tell you.
www.legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asap/waml/waml.aspx
Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jessejmc1979 12-17-2008 02:54 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Here's a link to a site that will tell you who your senator is. You just put in your address and it will tell you including e-mail addresses. We all need to contact them like has been said. Hopefully the dnr will pull their heads out of their hind ends and do the right thing for once.

http://www.legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/waml/waml.aspx
Sorry guys I don't know how to post a link but this is the address anyways.

TJD 12-17-2008 02:57 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

800,000 hunters all trying to shoot bucks only next year. Back to a 20:1 doe/buck ratio. Great, just like the "good old days" when a 1 1/2 y.o, 6 pointer was the bull of the woods.
Hmmm...okay...

Let me see if I understand the logic of that prediction: Hunters (folks like us), landowners, and farmers are all too dumb or lacking enough in foresight to not look out for their own best interests, so we need to have the DNR to tell us what to do. Yep...and how did that logic work out in the CWD areas, where the herd is now about where it was back in 2002 when the DNR created the "eradication zone"? Seems the only thing the DNR "eradicated" was the good will of the landowners in the "zone". Back to the apparent logic of the argument:
[ul][*]Hunters are too dumb: well, obviously they do not understand that too many deer reduces the chances of seeing trophy bucks, so the intellect of the DNR is needed to make sure they do the right thing.[*]Landowners are too dumb: same as above, plus they love having property values ultimately reduced since the lack of trophy deer means fewer potential buyers looking to buy prime hunting land.[*]Farmers are too dumb: we know how they absolutely love crop damage over and above what crop insurance would reimburse them for, so of course we need the DNR to tell them to shoot more and more deer because, apparently, they are unable to balance a checkbook and understand that too many deer actually costs them money.[/ul]

The theme here seems similar to that expressed by those who think higher taxes are a good thing, since only the brain trust employed by the government, not the people,is smart enough to decide how and where their hard earned money should be spent. God-forbid the money be spent on something like an evil SUV, pickup truck,or...GASP!...a gun! The government has much better plans for your money!

Back to hunting:Keep in mind thatit is not 1980 anymore, where hunters who shot doeswere vilified by hunterswho thought it almosta sin. That is not the case anymore. Smooth-heads will still get harvested if EAB goes away, especially if they continue to provide a free tag for just that purpose.Oh, and let me remind folks...remember when the DNR told us two years ago that if you had a 2:1 ratio of does to bucks harvested in your area, you would be removed from EAB? Funny, but our unit, 61, did just that and then some. We were told that...alas...the DNR meant that your whole region had to have a 2:1 ratio for that to occur. So because a unit 150 miles away falls short, why that must mean my unit is also "overpopulated".

And you wonder why the DNR has credibility issues??

Perhaps all of this will at least get the DNR to change their tone and deal honestly and in a spirit of cooperation with all stakeholders,rather than acting as a power unto themselves who are accountable to no one.

Handles 12-18-2008 07:56 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
1. Many "hunters" are dumb when it comes to knowing what the deer herd needs. Proof is that EAB had to be implemented before most hunters would shoot a doe regardless of what year it is. There are still many guys who won't shoot a doe, but will tag one if someone else shoot it. Then once EAB happens, too many hunters go nuts shooting 4,6,8 deer each. It shows that many of our "hunters" have no understanding, no self control. They haven't changed since the time of the market hunters. They willshoot as much as they can, eventhough they can't use all the meat themselves.Most of our "hunters" are not outdoorsmen, most of them spend only a couple days in the woods all year, many don't even spend the time to clean orsight intheir rifle (we all know at least 1 guy like that) they shouldn't even be allowed to buy a license, yetif they don't happen to see deer during that time they scream "NO DEER". I'll bet 1/2 of the days that I bowhunt I see0 deer. That's hunting. Don't like it? Don't do it.

2. In your bullet points, Your land owners and farmers may be part of the reason that you are seeing too few deer. Lots of farmers give away ag-tags to shoot as many deer as possible. They don't want crop damage, they want the deer gone. So you are saying if we let farmers have their way we will have more deer?? Bigger deer? Do you even know what you are arguing for? You say you want more deer, but you want farmers to do whatever they want. Hello, who owns the biggest portion of property in our state?

mr.mc54 12-18-2008 08:30 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Dumb- Stupid- LOOK WHO'S CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!!!

By the way if it were'nt for us dumb stupid farmers and hunters) I'd like to see what our natural resources would look like. Ok -who do you think feeds these animals ? And as far as ag. tags go- we get just enough tags to cover excessive deer damage. Who do you think leaves pheasant habitat for pheasants? And what about CRP programs? We could make more on corn than leaving fields in CRP. Who do you think leaves low land for water foul? Yourkind of thinking is why we are despising the DNR. If the STUPID FARMERS AND SPORTSMEN WHO SUPPORT DUCKS UNLIMITED, WHITETAILS UNLIMITED, PHEASANTS FOREVER WOULD QUIT HELPING I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE " GOOD OLD DNR WOULD DO".

ALL FARMERS AND HUNTERS ARE NOT DUMB OR STUPID!

HANDLES- you clearly don't know what your talking about

BY THE WAY- ARE YOU STARTING TO LOOK FOR A JOB? YOUR GONNA NEED ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Handles 12-18-2008 09:03 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I never said anyone was stupid. You did. I said many "hunters" are dumb when it comes to knowing about our deer herd needs, and I gave very valid solid examples of the way some of the general hunting public has acted in the past, and continues to act. I doubt that you can dispute that.

I never once said anything about a farmer being dumb or stupid. I never once mentioned anything regarding CRP, or lowlands.Please stop making up lies.
Please explain toeveryone how using crop damage tags will increase the population of the deer herd. Please show your math.

I do not work for the DNR, never said I did. Please stop making up lies.

TJD 12-18-2008 09:13 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Many "hunters" are dumb when it comes to knowing what the deer herd needs. Proof is that EAB had to be implemented before most hunters would shoot a doe regardless of what year it is. Many "hunters" are dumb when it comes to knowing what the deer herd needs. Proof is that EAB had to be implemented before most hunters would shoot a doe regardless of what year it is.
Okay...but then you say...


They haven't changed since the time of the market hunters. They willshoot as much as they can, eventhough they can't use all the meat themselves.
Let me see if I follow this train of thought: Hunters will not shoot does unless told to do so by the DNR, but on the other hand hunters "will shoot as much as they can, even though they can't use all the meat themselves"

Which is it?! If the point in the second quote is really true, then EAB was never necessary since hunters will have a natural tendency to shoot more deer than they need or can use. "Market hunters" did not simply shoot antlered bucks and let the does run by...they shot everything they saw. So, if such base tendencies still exists as you suggest, then the answer all along should have been to give a free antlerless tag or two out with each license. Yes, not everyone would use it, but do you want to bet that someone else in the hunting party would? The guys who like to shoot all the time will more than make up for the guys who don't again if your logic holds. Of course, the DNR does'tt want to have that discussion about availability of antlerless tages, since up until very recently...in fact not even 10 years ago!..., to shoot a doe you needed to either :1) get a "hunters choice" sticker to have the "privledge" of shooting a doe, or 2) apply for an antlerless tag, and once approved send the DNR some more money to get a doe tag.


Lots of farmers give away ag-tags to shoot as many deer as possible.
Ag-tags are not unlimited, so they do not even have the ability "to shoot as many deer as possible". Besides, if the DNR was accurate in saying that most units are over goal, how is that a bad thing?


They don't want crop damage, they want the deer gone.
So let me get this straight: we should keep EAB so that we don't have a population issue, but the evil farmers are going to kill off too many deer because "they want the deer gone". So if the DNR "wants the deer gone" by having t-zones, EAB, special December antlerless hunts, so-called "eradication zones"...it's a good thing, but if a farmer wants to lower the deer population to protect his livelihood, it is a bad thing. So you are saying we need EAB to keep the herd in check, but the evil farmers are going to shoot too many deer if we get rid of it. Hmmmmm....want to think that one over again??....


You say you want more deer, but you want farmers to do whatever they want. Hello, who owns the biggest portion of property in our state?
That's right...THEY OWN THE LAND!!! They make their livelihood on that land. They pay the taxes for that land and the income they generate. And...as you just said, they "own the biggest portion of property in our state" so they should have a very, very, VERY big say in how the herd is managed!

mr.mc54 12-18-2008 10:01 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
YOU MAKE HUNTERS AND FARMERS LOOK STUPID!!!!!!!

THAT IS MY POINT. ie; NO SELF CONTROL,GOING NUTS,NO UNDERSTANDING, AND NOT OUTDOORS MEN.

YOU DON'T WORK FOR THE DNR?I believe you said you "VOLUNTEERED" Ok you got me !
I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW YOU STAND. JUST WHERE DID YOU VOLUNTEER? DO ALL VOLUNTEERES
THINK THE WONDERFUL DNR WALK'S ON WATER?

Ihave never used a crop damage tag nor have I askedfor damages because we managed our herd until the DNR alowed the slaughter on neighboring properties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I GET THE FEELING YOUTHINK EVERY ONE IS A YOSIPPITY SAM, TRIGGER HAPPY NUT CASE And that couldn't be further from the trueth.Every one wants the same thing-just to see deer again. Even me as a farmer and hunter.

TJD 12-18-2008 11:01 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
mr.mc54


Ihave never used a crop damage tag nor have I askedfor damages because we managed our herd until the DNR alowed the slaughter on neighboring properties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You, like many, saw that something needed to be done and took action. That is my point in my response to Handles. I'm not disputing that some areas have had, and continue to have, population issues. Nor do I think that we should simply do away with season rules and regulations. Rather, my point is that the DNR needs to be more responsive and understand that they have to work with farmers, hunters, and landowners and stop the "rule by decree" approach.

Like I pointed out, until just a short time ago, it was the DNR that effecively discouraged the shooting of antlerless deer by leaving in place outdated hoops to jump through, like "Hunters Choice" and having to apply for antlerless tags. Was the $3 for Hunters Choice to expensive? No. Neither was the $12 you had to pay for a "bonus tag". But it was another pain in the neck step that simply made it more difficult. Whether intentionally or not, the DNR basically made it appear that shooting does was something "special" that had to be strictly limited. Then, almost overnight, we were told that we had a "deer management crisis" in Wisconsin due to overpopulation. So we then had free tags, t-zones, EAB, and the like. Fast forward to this year: we were told for the past several years that there are too many deer, so now the expectation hunters have when they hit the timber is that they are going to see more deer than in the past, then we have the 2008 season and the harvest drops by 20%.

Basically, what I am saying is the DNR has created a boom/bust deer management practice. For reasons that may have more to do with protecting spending dollars to maintain the wildlife menagement bureacracy, the DNR seems to manage as if there is always a crisis right around the corner. "We need Hunters Choice and Bonus Tag application approvals to make sure we have enough deer." all the way to "We need EAB and t-zone to make sure we don't have too many deer."

Handles, you did make the point about bowhunting and seeing no deer on several occassions. I have had that occur with me as well. But that is not the point. Gun season is when the vast majority of deer harvested are taken. If hunters are told that they should expect to have plenty of harvest opportunities, and then see few or no deer, what do you think is going to happen? You think they are more likely or less likely to buy a license and hunt next year? So next year, if little changes with management policy, what is the DNR to do if the number of licenses sold drops by 10 or 20%? Require all of us who still buy licenses to shoot two or three does before we shoot a buck, to make up for the fact we have fewer hunters?

The DNR needs to do a better job of finding balance: balance in the deer herd, but also balance in public relations with hunters and landowners. If they alienate hunters, they alienate their primary deer management tool. If they alienate landowners, expect that there will be even less access to private land, making deer management more difficult.

That is what is at stake here.

mr.mc54 12-18-2008 11:29 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
TJD- I agree with you.

What ticks me off as a farmer is (HANDLESinsinuating) that we willkill all the deer or want all the deer dead. This could not be further from the trueth. I can live with deer damage - there is no better keeper of the land or natural resources than us farmers! I have been managing the deer on our 160 acres just fine till the DNR gave 2 dollar tags to all the non resident neighboring land owners. We let the small bucks go and shoot a very limited amount of does. (My neighbors shoot every deer they see) and that type of hunting is supported by our wonderful DNR. I have said before that when people shoot anterless deer they also will wipe out numerous nubbies and as you know they are our future TEN-TWELVEPOINTERS.

TJD, YOU MAKE A VERY GOOD POINT-I WILL NOT SHOOT DOE AND NO-ONE ELSE WILL ON MY LAND NEXT YEAR!

I just wonder if Handles has his own land or he hunts on a brain dead farmers?

JUST LET ME CLARIFY ONE THING I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT OUT OF STATERS HERE!


I could manage my land with-out the DNR's help.

Handles 12-18-2008 01:55 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
So in reality, you should be mad at your neighbors for shooting deer on their land. If they had exercised some control you wouldn't be on this forum complaining about this subject.
That's my whole point. Just because something is legal it doesn't mean a hunter or landowner has to do it. If you feel your deer herd is in jepardy, then by all means don't shoot any doe. You live there, you should know.
That's been my point from the begining. The problem is that many hunters will shoot what ever and however many deer, ducks, phesants, turkeys thatare legal, and if we take away the DNR restrictions (whether they are good or bad in your eyes) that many hunters will go completely overboard.That does include farmers who fill, or ask hunters to fill all of their ag tags.
Remember, not all farmers are hunters. Many of them could give a rip if there was a deer anywhere on their property, and yet others won't allow any hunting on theirs. Not all farmers are good stuards of the land. Many of them plow up every possible acre for crops, and diminish places for wildlife to live. Many use more chemicals than are needed, or have poor practices regarding animal waste control.
There are some really dumb hunters and some really dumb farmers out there depending on how you look at things.
Oh, and one other thing...I highly doubt that the DNR will get rid of volunteers. So why don't you do something positive and help out?


jessejmc1979 12-18-2008 02:40 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Handles how many times are you going to try to turn this around on the hunters. You never answered my question (what 5 or 6 pages ago) when I asked you if the dnr doesn't need to regulate the numbers of game harvested why do we have limits for every wild creature in wisconsin except deer. If hunters are dumb like you say the only proof would be listening to the dnr when they told us to shoot as many does as we can it will help the herd. Come on admit that they dropped the ball, on second thought just wait it out maybe you'll change your tune when all of us hunters stand together and get somethings changed.

mr.mc54 12-18-2008 03:33 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Handles- I am mad at my neighbors!

Will that do any good? I think not, as long as the DNR miss leads the hunters by screwed up surveys.
most hunters are good and lumping every one in the "dumb or stupid) category is just wrong. Most hunters as I see it are or should I say were just trusting in what the DNR told them and were just trying to thin out the herd. Lets face it alot of guys don't get out in the field as much as farmers do and see that the herd is so low. When you are out there every day you can see what is on your land.

You still didn't answer my question- ( Do you hunt on your own land or on a dumb or stupid farmers)?

MarquetteMagnum 12-19-2008 04:53 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Don't worry guys CHANGE is comeing! Obama will bring back the deer!

mr.mc54 12-19-2008 09:31 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I agree with ya on that one!!!

Without guns we'll have to use sharp sticks!

Trapper22 12-20-2008 08:10 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I live in crawford county and work in the state of Iowa that has a thriving deer herd. Allamakee and Clayton county Iowa are some of the best deer countryin the U.S.for chances at big bucks. I work with several deer hunters in Iowa that see more deer on one drive than I'll see in 10 years hunting in grant or crawford county WI. The adage of we have toget the population at a 2 does to 1 buck ratio to get larger bucks is not true. Iowa is proof of that.The Lovesten buck came out of centralIowa. There are several monsters shot over there every year. When watching hunting shows anymore the 2 states they usually head to for monster whitetails are Iowa and Illinois. I know that Wisconsin has Buffalo county but that's about it for the entire state for a go to area, and part of that is because so much land up there is under control of leases to get bigger deer. In Iowa I know for a fact you have a good chance of shooting the buck of a lifetime on public ground. I'm not saying that can't happen in Wisconsin but I'd much rather have Iowas deer herd than ours. The chance of shooting a big onewhile seeing quite a few deer at the same time isvirtually a gurantee.Their DNR seems to actually listen to the hunters.

I was over at a freinds house the night of thelast day of our deer season and was talking to him and his neighbor. They were skinning a couple of does in his garage they had shot that day. They went out for aboutan hour and each got a doe and saw over 20 deer that night. Iowa had an early antlerless season that weekend and will have one the end of Dec. as well. However the kill during Iowas regular 2 shotgun season which the second one ends tomorrow is down so the DNR in Iowa is already wondering if the extra antlerless seasons are even needed next year. That is a DNR that is looking out for the health of the deer herd and what the hunters who buy the licenses that fund the wages and programs want as well. Wisconsin DNR are you listening?? Are you smart enough to listen??

While I was over there that night, my freinds neighbor flat out said if theIowa DNRever screws up the deer herdlike Wisconsin's has managed to do he'd be done hunting.He works with huntersfrom Wisconsin and hesaid there's no way he could go out gun hunting and not see a deer all day or only4 or 5 all year. They shoot plenty of does over there and also shoot some awesome bucks as well. The proof of thatis the racks the 2 of them have which are several8 to 12 pointers with 16 to 20 inch spreads even while seeing a lot of does and harvesting quite a few. Iowa also has an early youth season which this guys daughter (I think shes around 10 or 12)took part in. It was her first hunt ever.They went out for about 20 minutes one night and she dropped a nice 10 pointer which is almost the size of the biggest buck I've every shot in 25 years of hunting in WI. So in no way shape or form does shooting every doein sight and killing the herd to get it to a 2 to 1 ratio increase the amount of big bucks in an area. The proof is across the river in Iowa!!!

The biggestlive buck I saw this year was in Iowawhile driving aroundan area of public ground. I went over there one night and my freind and I went for aquickdrive and wesaw around 25 that night includingthe above mentioned 10 or 12 pointer. It was the first time I'd seen over 4 deer in a group in over 10 years. I just don't see deer like that in WI. but I sure wish I did.

mr.mc54 12-21-2008 01:07 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I HEAR YA!!!!

What would it hurt to have more deer? As long as they aren't starving and there is cover and food whats it to the DNR. You know when everything started to head south was when CWD was discovered. Then the DNR over reacted and started to change their philosophy to lets kill them all. There is no Known case where CWD has affected a human and yet they are trying to eliminate deer in those areas. If I lived there ( over my cold dead body would anyone kill deer on my land).
You can see by the pictures of monster bucks that have been taken that the DNR is full of s..t.

In Iowa there is plenty of food and cover to support the deer and we could have the same thing here. I just can't understand why CWD is even a concern. It may have been here for years. I used to live in Waukesha County WI in the 60's and I know I saw deer that were probably ill with CWD and no-one knew it. We killed deer that were skinney and looked ill and left them. That was the right thing to do(just like cattle). In this day and age deer could do well with 1 deer per acre, sounds crazy but one acre can feed a cow on my area. Deer feed on my hay bales and silage bunkers and I don't mind. They were here first! Many people from the city feel that a deer feeding in their petunias is the worst thing that could happen. Well who was here first? If you don't like wild life in your yard -stay in the city. I believe that is the problem with car kills too. A person who is used to seeing deer on the road drives carefully and watches for deer.

So who is the blame here, the deer or us ? I think a neighbor said it right , when he said that he is going around our area and asking every farmer to forgo deer hunting next year. We are going to manage the deer our selfs. this will be aprox. 2000 acres of refuge next year. This will put our numbers back to where they should be in one year. We don't care what the DNR thinks cause this is our land . Its funny that you mention Bufflo county. I don't know if you know this but many farmers and land owners have been doing this for years(managing their deer herd. See what can be done with selective management. They hardly ever kill does - unless it need be. You can have does and bucks and still have large bucks. Its what we as hunters are willing to do.

OUT WEST CWD HAS BEEN AROUND FOR MANY MANY YEARS AND DO THEY ERADICATE THE DEER OR ELK HERDS? no, They let nature take its course.

MAY BE IM WRONG IN FEELING THE WAY I DO - BUT WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?

Bukmastr 12-21-2008 02:10 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
They ain't done killing yet... We are still not to there insane goals of 10 per square mile and 5 per square in the CWD units...

“Hunters have been doing a good job, and deer populations may be moving toward healthy goals,” said Keith Warnke, DNR big game biologist.
I have heard DNR representatives make very disrespectful claims about the ethics of "Trophy hunters" I have also heard them make claim that people should be proud and happy of all deer harvested... They look down on those who wish not to shoot babies. Truth be told, a higher level of hunter is the man ( or woman ) who lets the young deer have a chance to live life and waits for a mature animal. The WDNR is structuring the herd so less than 1% of the deer make it to maturity. Thats just sick!
And thats not the way nature intended it to be. I have nothing against someone who is new to hunting, or disabled, or old, or lacking in skill and rarely gets a deer ( we have all heard of the guy who waits several years to shoot a deer ) shooting the occasional young deer...
But there is something wrong with the thinking that experienced, educated hunters should be happy taking baby animals every year...
The WDNR thinks we are the ones with the bad ethics... They are the ones promoting killing babies... A button buck fawn gets kicked out of the family group before he is old enough to even know what a hunter is... Without its mothers protection it enters the gun season as the stupidest deer in the woods... Its no surprise to me that almost 50% of the "does" shot during the antlerless and EAB slaughter are button bucks... In the public marsh by me they have already killed every button buck out there between the EAB bow hunters, the early gun doe slaughter, Muzzleloader, and the regular gun deer season.
But that ain't good enough for the WDNR... Just in case there is still one fawn living, They are having another 4 day gun antlerless slaughter this weekend and then they are going to have another 2 weeks of rifle season at the end of the year...

mr.mc54 12-21-2008 06:30 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
BUCKMASTR:

I think most hunters want the same thing. Deer numbers are the most important thing. When you sit all day and don't see deer you start to wonder what is wrong with this picture. Some say we should be satisfied with just being able to be out there, but I can't swallow that. I don't care if I shoot a deer, but I do want to see some. There are guys who say we are selfish to think that way, (it's hunting). You know its no different than fishing-you want to catch fish or you will go home. I am convinced that we can't keep shooting baldies and have a balanced herd. I have said before that in them baldies are our future big bucks. Most hunters know that but the propaganda the DNR has blown up our bottom side had us doing it just so we could shoot a buck. I truely think the hunters of this state are going to demand the DNR to listen to us.

ONE WAY OR THE OTHER DEER WILL HAVE A REFUGE ON MY LAND NEXT YEAR!

IAGREE WITH YOUR POST- GOOD STUFF!

cayugad 12-21-2008 06:36 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Something else to help the DNR.. if we get record snow falls this winter and continued freezing weather, that will help the DNR wipe out even more deer with the Winter Kill. In the north, deep snow makes the deer yard up. That should make the timber wolves real happy. Nothing they like more then an easy meal.

TJD 12-21-2008 09:44 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I have heard DNR representatives make very disrespectful claims about the ethics of "Trophy hunters" I have also heard them make claim that people should be proud and happy of all deer harvested...
Yes, so have I. I have also heard the intimation that trophy hunting is "the problem", that because hunters don't make the massive "meat" drives of 25 years ago, we now have a "deer population problem". Let's assume that such a problem exists: I will acknowledge that some areas do have an issue with deer populations that might be above what the long term capacity of the land can support. But if such a problem does really exist, how did it get this way?

Again, let's take a trip down recent memory lane.
[ol][*]Until just a few years back (2004, I believe), many hunters statewide were forced to apply for a "hunters choice" sticker for the "privledge" of harvesting a doe with your regular gun tag. In fact, it 2004, hunters in the following units had to apply: DMUs 7, 10, 11, 16, 26, 31, 32, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 44, 45, 49A, 49B, 50, 52, 55, 56, 57A, 58, 60A, 69, and 73D. That's a lot of units where apparently there was no real issue with population. If there WAS such an issue, why put hunters through the nonsense of applying for the sticker?[*]Until2004, hunters had to apply for antlerless tags in most units. Again, where was the crisis? If over population is such an issue, are we to believe that it occured overnight and was not as serious 4 short years ago?[/ol]
I'm not suggesting that the DNR need estimate deer population with a high degree of accuracy. My point is it is obvious that if the deer population has gotten excessive across much of the state, then the DNR deserves a big part of the blame. Deer are not like bacteria in a petrie dish; they do not multiply exponentially overnight. Such population growth takes time. So where was the DNR when this was occuring?.

Or, we can look at this another way. As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, in the unit I hunt, unit 61, the overwinter target has been lowered three times in 15 years, suddenly making our unit "overpopulated". Had it not been for a lot of squawking from landowners and outfitters in Buffalo County two years ago, we would still be stuck at a ridiculously low target instead of the 20 deer per square mile we have now (BTW...it used to be 25 in 1994...not sure why we needed a 20% reduction in target to begin with, but 20% is better than the 40% we were going to have). Could it just be that the whole issue of a "deer management crisis" was simply created to justify holding on to funds that the DNR might not be able to justify if they were to say things were fine?

As for 2008, even DNR spokesman Warnke admitted that the results this year are not due to lack of hunter effort. He further acknowledged that the lower harvest cannot be attributed to weather. Hmmmm....seems like that leaves a grossly erroneous population estimate.

Buckmastr, you are also right about the numbers of nub bucks that buy it. This nonsense has to stop!





peakrut 12-22-2008 05:12 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Just think this damn holiday gun season starts down here Dec 24th in the CWD zone.

Handles 12-22-2008 08:57 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
You guys are hilarious. Comparing Iowa to Wisconsin? You want their deer harvest?You are already complaining about our 300K or so harvest!The bitching on here would be unreal if we had Iowa's herd. Iowa harvests only about 120,000 deer per year. Thereare only about 250,000 hunters total, and almost the entire state is shotgun only. Go hunt there if you want. just make sure you apply for your out of state tag for about 3 years in advance.
To say Iowa has better hunting is nuts. Sure there are places where it is outstanding, such as the private land/leases that you see on T.V., and there are some big deer in other areas of the state, no question. Low averagehuman population, low# of hunters, and shotgun only helps getage on the bucks, something that I would like to see more of here.But as far as numbers of deer, numbers of bucks, numbers of big bucks, Wisconsin stomps all over Iowa, just check P&Y, B&C, or SCI record books.

PYbuckhunter 12-22-2008 09:35 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

ORIGINAL: peakrut

Just think this damn holiday gun season starts down here Dec 24th in the CWD zone.
Hopefully all the deer from my hunting area are not yarded upon some property, that's hunted bypeople that believe everything the DNR feeds us!

mr.mc54 12-22-2008 11:17 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Peak rut;

The cwd units are set up to have a ZERO DEER POPULATION that is why you have so many seasons! The DNR will try any thing possible to get it down to them numbers. I really feel for the guy's that hunt down there. I really don't think CWD is the problem-it's the car accidents in the populated areas. Someone please tell me why Wyoming is'nt eradicating their deer/elk herds. They have had CWD from the beginning of time. Just look at the large bucks taken in CWD units. Do they look sick to you? Now they have found CWD in other areas of the state, are they going to eradicate the deer there? The people of Wyoming would blow a nut if the Wyoming Game and Fish would even think about eradication. THERE IS TROUBLE BREWING GUYS WE MUST TAKE A STAND.
WE HAVE TOO MANY SEASONS NOW IN THE REST OF THE STATE!

THE REASON THERE ARE ANY DEER LEFT IN CWD ZONES IS MANY LAND OWNERS AND HUNTERSWON'T BUY INTO THE DNR'S PHILOSOPHY!!!!!!

mr.mc54 12-22-2008 11:24 AM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
REPLY TO HANDLES;

WHY IS THERE A WAITING LIST TO HUNT THERE? MAY BE THEY MANAGE WHAT DEER THEY HAVE BETTER...DAH!!!!!!!!!!!

ANY ONE WITH A PEA BRAIN COULD UNDER STAND WHAT WAS MEANT BY THE REFRENCETO IOWA!

WE HAVE BETTER HABITAT AND WE CAN SUPPORT MORE DEER!!!!!!!!

ALL WE WANT IS TO SEE MORE DEER-DON'T YOU GET IT??????????????????????????

wibucks 12-22-2008 12:40 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Being a landowner/hunter in the CWD zone I followed it close from the start. I remember when it first was found they consulted with the western states that had CWD and they were told to attempt to eradicate or stop the spread of the it. A few years after the eradication/herd reduction hunts, they received kudos from these other states for their efforts. They know now that zero population is not possible. I still think that the DNR thinks CWD is statewide and that is why you have EAB all over the state(herd reduction without the CWD freak out we had 6 years ago). As for Iowa, they can keep it and their TV shows, I'll keep hunting quietly in my little CWD corner of WI(seeing plenty of deer and a few nice bucks every year). The thing that I don't get is the guys in the northern and central part of state that usually see 50+ deer a day now see 2-3 a day. Whatever the problem is the dnrneeds to find answers. I heard Mr. Warnke likes to get e-mails

mr.mc54 12-22-2008 01:09 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
WI BUCKS:

THE WAY IT IS NOW,I WOULD BE GLAD TO SEE TWO DEER A DAY. We used to see 10-15 a day till last year . Then it went down to 1-3 deer. This year it was 2 deer all season! That is why every one is outraged with the DNR. What do you think of CWD? Are you afraid to eat the deer you take? Like I said before If it looks sick don't eat it. I hunted many years in the south east area of WI and ate the deer- it never hurt us any.

Handles 12-22-2008 01:19 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Habitation??AndI'm the one with a pea brain? See more deer...In Iowa??? Hahahaha! You are a gem. There are about 1/2 as many deer in iowa as in wisconsin.


TJD 12-22-2008 01:40 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

But as far as numbers of deer, numbers of bucks, numbers of big bucks, Wisconsin stomps all over Iowa, just check P&Y, B&C, or SCI record books.
I don't think the point was to compare the potential or hunting in Iowa to Wisconsin. It sounded to me like the point was to compare the overall experience with herd management. Wisconsin, especially in the Mississippi River Block, has almost perfect topography for developing big deer. I can't think of an area in Iowa anything like that.

As for management, again...the DNR grossly overestimated the population of deer across the state as evidenced by the harvest data. By the DNR's own assertion (Keith Warnke's own words), the decreased harvest numbers this year cannot be attributed to either lack of effort by hunters or weather. The goofy SAK method of estimating deer population is now being shown for what it is: nothing more than another glorified way of guessing that is heavily reliant on subjective inputs.

So Handles, either way you look at it a bunch of hunters are ticked off. Whether or notthe angeris all justified is not the core issue; the core issue is that because hunters across the state saw fewer deer than they were led to believe would be there, many of them are P.O.'ed. Why should the DNR care? Well, what happens next year if the number of hunters drops off by 10% or20%, since the DNR repeatedly refers to hunters as their "primary herd management tool"? How does the DNR handle "herd management" then with even fewer hunters? Require hunters to harvest two does before shooting at a buck? Levy a fine on hunters who do not fill a tag? Dust off the "sharpshooters from helicopters" idea again?

Once again, my point is the DNR needs to work with hunters and work with landowners and come up with longer term strategies for managing the herd that will be acceptable to all. Stop ignoring the reports that hunters in many units have given for years stating that the deer population is down, and then simply attributing the reports to things like "changing hunter habits". The DNR's days of the "shoot the deer or go to h***!" attitude needs to end...NOW!!

Handles 12-22-2008 02:04 PM

RE: wisconsin DNR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
If hunter numbers drop, and harvest rates drop, and deer population increases for more than a year or so, we will likely see more EAB, possibly some double EAB (two doe for 1 buck) and possibly some doe only zones. Oh and license costs go up for those remaining hunters, and those who decide to hunt in the future.
How's that sound fellas?

The DNR is like the Grim Reaper. It will get you in the end.


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