RE: Can the WI DNR count deer?
 

Great points, Brian. And I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis. I face a similar problem where I hunt...not too far from you in fact. I hunt in Trempealeau County near Arcadia. We have almost exactly the same issue.

Back in the early 1990' s, the area DID have a problem with overpopulation. No question. It was very common to drive around in the Spring and Summer evenings and see one hundred deer or more in a twenty minute time frame. Ag tags and t-zones were needed, and, along with those of us practicing QDM and harvesting does, the problem was taken care of. Now we have an identical situation to what you described. Just identical to what we have. But also in our area, the DNR is trying to solve a " problem" that doesn' t exist. We have asked the same questions at meetings and, unfortunately, got the same answers you got. Two years ago, we did manage to pin one of the DNR people down on the WHY of lower overwinter targets. One of the more feeble answers we received was that, if they allowed for a higher goal, then the " possibility of greater crop damage would exist" . Hmmm...the " possibility" ?! By that standard, we should shoot all the deer so there is no " possibility" .

This is one reason that I criticize the DNR. They don' t listen to us, they hold the meetings for show more than substance, and they seemingly ignore us with regards to issues like this. Want to control crop damage? Fine. Avoid car collisions? Fine. But to what degree? To the degree that hunting opportunities are dimished and land values fall? We' re not there yet, but it wouldn' t take much for that to occur. Sure, some parcels that are unhuntable or very difficult to hunt (some of the marshes around Dodge, Meinert' s Slew on the Trempealeau River, etc.) may have higher than desireable populations. But most other areas are below that by a long shot.

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RE: Can the WI DNR count deer?
 

I agree, Brian.

And with that being the case, that is why I get irritated at the DNR and their contention that the units are still over goal and we still need a t-zone, or earn-a-buck, or whatever. It is baffling to me that the goals are largely achieved, but that is still not good enough. Again, it simply leads to a lot of resentment from landowners and hunters when the DNR tries to solve a problem that isn' t there.

We had the same problem with the herd being out of whack. Now that the ratio is more in line with a sustainable level...with regard to reproductive potential and available resources...we have seen a great increase in results. I won' t say that trophybook bucks are " common" , but we tend to see at least one taken every year. In the past, it was one every 3 or 4 years. Of course, passing up the little ones had an impact, but we did not notice any real benefit until we started shooting out more does.

RE: Can the WI DNR count deer?
 

The overwinter goals are to be reviewed every 3 years for each unit(by rule), BUT if you aren' t there at your unit meeting(where you hunt) and bring it up(or someone) and vote to raise it, do you think they are going to mention it ?
In 1 area I hunt, it was 20 and we voted(the people in attendance) to raise it to 30. The dnr rep said we could only raise it to 25. No more than 5 at once. Now, nowhere have I found this in stone or law.

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RE: Can the WI DNR count deer?
 

Brian, was this during the hearing last year? I couldn' t make the one last year; I do recall hearing something about a vote that had some " Florida-like" counting going on. Maybe that was the one.

Funny, I was recently going thru some old papers and found one for the 1993 deer hunt. It talked about the limited number of doe tags available for unit 61 due to " the population being significantly under goal" . This was a year when I saw well over 100 deer while hunting opening day!

Brian, sounds like we need to mobilize a bunch of folks to show up at the next meetings in unit 61.

RE: Can the WI DNR count deer?
 

NO!!! Any other questions?

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RE: Can the WI DNR count deer?
 

Brian, this reminded me of an exchange I had with one of the DNR officials at one of the meetings a few years back. I was questioning the " boom-bust" deer management that we seemed to be witnessing. " Why no doe tags this year and then a whole bunch of crop damage permits the next?" I asked if anterless harvest was the goal, why not give out one free tag with a regular license? I was told " Too much lost revenue" . Two years later, unit 61 was a t-zone, and hunters could get free tags at a rate of two per hunter per day during all of gun and bow season!! Talk about a change of heart! Also talk about some questionable wildlife management...but that is for a different thread.

So we go from " Not enough deer" to " Shoot everything you see" . I understand the changes in population, but that much? And why suddenly is 15 deer the " magic number" when 20 or 25 was fine a few years back? There is less crop damage, car accidents are about the same in the unit, and there are definitely fewer deer in the area.

Back to the issue of whether the DNR can effectively count deer. My feeling is that the DNR is keeping goals like this around because they are coming up with estimates of total population that are higher than what is actually out there. So in our case, unit 61, the DNR sets a target of 15 deer because the beloved SAK says we are still at 20 or 19 or whatever. Set the goal low so that you can justify a higher kill requirement; hence t-zone or earn-a-buck. In reality, simply based on the statistical deficiencies of the SAK system, I' ll bet we are at, near, or below the 15 deer per sq. mile allotment that the DNR is aiming for. THAT, I believe, is the root of the problem.