Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Rising corn prices due to ethanol prodution have forced farmers to remove 4.1 Million acres from CRP in 2007 to put into corn production. This is a 4.1 million acre loss of year round habitat, hunting, nesting acreage for all kinds of wildlife. It has also cause in 40% increase in the price of N fertilzer in the last few months ... which comes from petroleum and natural gas sources.

http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/ag/story/data/1173389267555.xml&catref=ag1001

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Those same farmers will soon be begging for hunters to take out all those fat corn fed deer that they'll be creating in the near future.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

It is tempting I must say. I have one 20 acre plot in CRP and make 85 per acre. I have another 50 acres that is farmed and I get 135 per acre out of that.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

If the deer do not have cover all year round like the CRP fields they may not stick around. After all that conr gets cut there is no place to hide in some areas. I have walked through many CRP fields and seen deer and deer beds in the tall think cover. Basically there is no other places for them to hide. The pheasant population is going to be hurt the most.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Don't think that the farmers are being "forced" to do this, but like was said, there is a better value in a sucessful corn crop when compared to CRP, and there in lies the incentive. Plus, unless the CRP contract deadline is up, they CAN'T do it. Most CRP is enrolled in 10 year contracts, so unless all the CRP is coming out of the contract period, all the CRPcan't be tilled.
Like was said, pheasant will be impacted more than the deer. And, the other thing that the great push of ethanol will do is make our grocery bill go up!

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Well, the deer and other game must have done something before all that land was in CRP. Dunno why, but in fact, apart from deer, the hunting in my neck of the woods seemed to be better before half the county went to CRP.
Now, if more actual woodland or marginal ground is cleared for farming that is a different story.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

There is talk about letting the CRP contacts be voided though. So if that happens we could see a major drop off in a years time. Much higher than 4.1M acres.

If you live in an area with trees and other cover other than CRP than the deer pop probably won't be hurt. Out here in Nebraska where the trees are very scarce it would probably desimate alot of the deer population.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

you are all missing the big picture. fuel prices will drop alot, grain prices will start to lower once everythings up and going. how many times do you complain when filling up your gas tank or paying your utility bill? we ruin more habitat with our own repopulation. using billions of acres to expand and killing off habitat. so if your parents would have kept it in there pants we would have a few less to take up space.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

How's the saying go,......If you're going to dream, dream BIG!

So let's look at this, let's say ethonal becomes a "primary fuel" for cars, thus more cars buring it, means more grain needed to make it. Right so far? the human population keeps growing thus meaning more mouths to feed, BUT more grain is being grown to feed our cars, BUT wait, what about all the mouths of humans, you no food like bread, flour, etc. Well since more of the grain is being burned in cars, means less for making food, which means someone better start growing more grain, BUT wait, more people means more housing which means less ground to grow grain! When alls said and done, you're left with less ground to grow grain, more grain needed, and with higher demand for the grain, you're going to pay a higher price for it! And the fuel prices, do you really think the price of fuel is going to drop a lot! Do you realize that it takes more energy to make ethanol than ethonal itself gives! Keep on dreamin'![:o]

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

My fiances family owns a 700 acre farm, and they bust their butt. I will be happy if they can turn this into money for the rest of the family. I love hunting, but without money I can't afford to hunt. I agree that more land will be taken by houses. If her family decided to sell the farm it would be gone in a week, and no one in the family would ever have to work again. So its a trade off.

Her grandpa was offered 120,000 for 3 acres of land. He said no.

So I think Ethanol is the least of our worries.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

We simply can't produce enough corn to make ethanol any sort of primary fuel. Right now production capacity is through the roof, but everything will level out. Ultimately the price of oil is going to determine the price of corn (indirectly) and thus will determine the incentive scheme that farmers will use to determine whether or not to re-enroll in CRP. Also, it is important to remember that Congress will be working on a new Farm Bill this year. With Democrats in control, I'd say it is highly likely that more money will be spent on conservation programs. Bush/USDA has proposed its own version of the farm bill with increased spending on conservation as well.

Someone already mentioned it, but farming is not going to be the downfall of wildlife populations and hunting. Development and increasing populations are more likely to hinder our opportunities as sportsmen.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Well, when you also factor in other crops like sugar cane that can be used to make bio-fuel, we can make a pretty good run at making ourselves much less dependent on oil imports. I can live with that.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

We could use other sources to produce more ethanol. But we produce a heck of a lot more corn than we do sugar and we can't import sugar efficiently because of trade barriers. Everything from corn stalks to switchgrass can be used for celluloisic ethanol, but I think the technology for making that conversion is lagging.

And lets not forget, the same government that is making the CRP payment is also paying the subsidies/providing tax credits that make producers think about not enrolling in CRP. Seems sort of counter-productive, doesn't it? If they didn't cause the run-up in corn prices, they could make cheaper CRP payments to eligible producers. Instead they pay on both ends.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Lot's of kinks to work out. But it is interesting to consider that a few years ago a lot of people were laughing at the notion of bio-fuels. But its becoming more and more of a reality.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

I read that on a research farmit was demonstrated that switchgrass can yield about 1000 gal. of ethonal per acre per year. So, maybe someday farmers will be strip farming corn and switchgrass, and the small game critters will all be happy!:)
Seems we are making strides toward using Bio-fuels/ethonal, but we got a long ways to go!

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

I attend the University of Northwestern Ohio. We have a program totally comitted to alternative fuels.As promising as these fuels are, there are some real shortcomings. Here are a few of the facts I have learned.

1 Current consumption of gasoline = 146 - 150 billion gallons ofgasoline
produced a year.

2. Currently we produce about 4 billion gallons of ethanol, increases to
about 8 billion gallons in 2012.

3.Our fuel usageincreases about 5% every year, give or take 1%

4. Ethanol is sometimes more expensive than straight gasoline.

5. Ethanol produces 30% less energy than gasoline.

So,in 2012, our production of ethanol will be 8 billion gallons, and our gas
consumption will increase to about 195 billion gallons. If my math is correct, that is slightly over 4%of consumption. If we stay on that track of consumption and production, we will not even see a difference of how much oil we use, and probably a increase. The fact that ethanol is less efficient also take a huge toll. 8 billion gallons translates to = 5.6 billion gallons of gasoline, or roughly 3% of expected consumption.

IMHO, we need to find a cost effective way to use hydrogen.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Fox,

I think that predictions over only the next 5 years loses sight of the fact that our current ethanol production and technology is rudimentary compared to what it will be like in, say, 50 years. Are there any models that try to estimate long-term trends and that factor in potential improvements in technology thru time? In the meantime, I would be happy to be even 3 percent less dependent on OPEC. Hydrogen sounds good too if they can make it work.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Lanse,

The problem I am encountering with researching ethanol is sifting through all of the information that is out there and trying to tell which facts are not special interest driven. Those numbers will change some based on increased production effeciency. There arecurrently about 100 ethanol plants with that increasing say 75 to 100% in 2012. Maybe more. Thereare just too many variables and too many conflicting statistics.

IMHO, the real gains are to be made in fuel efficiency,public transportation improvements, viable/cost effective hydrogen production, affordable hybrid technology. Jamie

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

I guess were all just screwed then.Damned if ya do and damned if ya dont.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

well i wouldn't worry about this to much these farmers that turn this CRP back to cropland will spend out their behind to get all the invasive plants out. the seeds were dropped last fall on the CRP land so it will be weedy for years to come. all the costs involved will not turn a profit on that ground for several years that is if corn stays up. It has been said that corn is so high right now because oil companies are buying up corn to break down these ethanol companies. once the ethanol plants go bankrupt the oil companies buy them back for pennies on the dollar and make a profit for themselves not the farmers.
corn is not going to be $4.00 next fall it will probably drop down to 3.50 so there will not be as much profit for these farmers.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

I hope you are right, Lefty. I do not see the prices going down anytime in the near future. The demand for corn for ethanol will continue to rise due to federal mandates for it to be added to fuel. The oil companies are involved with ethanol production. They do not want to miss out on a cash cow.

I am also worried that the effects on food priceswill be astronomical. Corn is being usedfor ethanol, burned in corn burning stoves, feed for livestock,the production of biodegradable plastics, corn oil, corn meal, etc, etc. We can only produce so much!

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Leftybuckmaster, just because something was in CRP for 10 years doesn't mean you can't put corn in there because of the weeds. A heavy dose of round up on round-up-ready corn will kill all the weeds. as for the prices, 3.50 a bushel average is still an awesome price for corn. you won't see any farmers complaining about that!

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Except the ones that grind corn to grain thier cattle!

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

This whole thing just gets on my nerves. The U.S. imports more grain/food than it exports. We also import over a billion worth of beef every year. Ethanol costs more to create than its worth. We do everything ass backwards these days.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

the oil companies could care less about ethanol. they know it is a horrible idea otherwise they would have started making it years ago. but it uses to much corn which raises the price causing ethanol to be profitless. ethanol has been around for a long time but is not a good fuel source for automobiles. this ethanol thing is going to be short lived. and ethanol plants are actuall losing money right now cause of the high corn prices and the low fuel prices so i guess we'll see what happens in a couple years.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Any shortages of grain in the U.S. is because farmers are paid not to grow it. If all of our agricultural land was fully utilized, there would be surplus corn rotting in silos.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

Just read in the local paper yesterday that they are getting ready to build an ethanol plant and a power plant 8 miles from my home to be up and running in 2009,go figure. Its being built on some old strip mine ground full of wildlife[:@]

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

"Any shortages of grain in the U.S. is because farmers are paid not to grow it. If all of our agricultural land was fully utilized, there would be surplus corn rotting in silos. "

What commodity program pays farmers not to produce a crop?CRP is a set-aside program, but its stated intent is related to conservation, not supplycontrols.

RE: Ethanol=4.1M Acres Less Hunting Land
 

"once the ethanol plants go bankrupt..."

How many farmers/agribusiness companies are politicians going to let go bankrupt? Especially those producers/industries tied to ethanol? Zero.