Warning about Rich's Hunting Adventures
01-12-2014, 06:03 AM
#32
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern WI
Posts: 853
What I am seeing on this outfitters web page is that there is no local information other than a phone number. If it were me, I would want to call up some local sport shops and do a background check before dumping such a load of money down on a hunt that could not be refunded, as per his conditions stated. The 914 area code indicates he is in the New York City area.
Be careful when booking hunts. And do your own background check - don't depend on their own testimonials. And if they do not give you their local business address so you can do this, you might want to take a pass. I think if you were to find a sport shop in this 914 area code that was familiar with this outfitter, they could probably give you some info. I know in my area, every outfitter I know is well known by all the local sport shops.
Be careful when booking hunts. And do your own background check - don't depend on their own testimonials. And if they do not give you their local business address so you can do this, you might want to take a pass. I think if you were to find a sport shop in this 914 area code that was familiar with this outfitter, they could probably give you some info. I know in my area, every outfitter I know is well known by all the local sport shops.
01-12-2014, 10:59 AM
#33
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,381
I wouldn't respond to this thread, just let it die. I will explain for anyone else who may think to continue.
The original posters IP was posted on another forum. IP was listed from Bakersfield, CA. If you do a search of his name to Bakersfield your results are gonna be for some Hollywood professional Animal Trainer blah, blah, blah. Why would an animal trainer with animal rights background go on a hunting excursion i don't know.
Now to the Rich guy. Looking at his associated accounts like his Ebay account for example. All his positive feedback was from accounts in 2010 and prior. Has he not had any hunts since then. He still has several dozen posted on ebay. Every site with a negative comment has the same generic response.
Im not saying this whole thing couldn't be real but the feel and coincidence just doesn't feel like a real issue. More an attempt to get his name out using a poor method of a complaint first and response.
The original posters IP was posted on another forum. IP was listed from Bakersfield, CA. If you do a search of his name to Bakersfield your results are gonna be for some Hollywood professional Animal Trainer blah, blah, blah. Why would an animal trainer with animal rights background go on a hunting excursion i don't know.
Now to the Rich guy. Looking at his associated accounts like his Ebay account for example. All his positive feedback was from accounts in 2010 and prior. Has he not had any hunts since then. He still has several dozen posted on ebay. Every site with a negative comment has the same generic response.
Im not saying this whole thing couldn't be real but the feel and coincidence just doesn't feel like a real issue. More an attempt to get his name out using a poor method of a complaint first and response.
Last edited by CalHunter; 01-12-2014 at 11:08 AM.
01-12-2014, 11:38 AM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
I was just on another "big name" website today and this same post from this same first poster is on there and the Moderator is trying to decide whether to delete it. I don't know how many times I've seen first time posters come on websites with complaints and it almost always turns out that they didn't do their homework and sent thousands of dollars to someone they didn't know and many didn't even ask for references. As the old saying goes: "There's a sucker born every minute!
For everyone interested in this case:
!---This guy Botta is a booking agent, not an outfitter
2---His website says it's a group of people that have gone on the hunts with outfitters he represents so you can be sure they are good. The NY registration says it's a one person business making $50,000 a year, which is peanuts and probably being done out of a home from the looks of the address on Mapquest!!!
3---There have been two complaints registered with the BBB and one was not responded to by Botta. The other one was evidently resolved when he responded, but it sounds like it wasn't to the satisfaction of the complainant. That is how the business got the F rating!
IMHO there is no reason to go through a booking agent to have a good outfitted hunt. Look at where you want to go and what outfitters are in that area. Most will have a working website that you can look at to get a feel and then you can contact them for more information. The main thing you should ask for is a current list of all the previous clients for the last couple seasons, including all those who ate tag soup. If they aren't willing to do that, go to the next and cross them off your list. If this complaint is on the up and up I will shed no tears when a guy says he dropped $2K to somebody he didn't know from a can of paint and it looks like he didn't do any homework at all before sending the check!!! This is another one of those "he said-she said" that none of us haveany idea of what actually is going on because we know nothing about either Botta or the complainant. I write these off now when I read them as a waste of my good time!
For everyone interested in this case:
!---This guy Botta is a booking agent, not an outfitter
2---His website says it's a group of people that have gone on the hunts with outfitters he represents so you can be sure they are good. The NY registration says it's a one person business making $50,000 a year, which is peanuts and probably being done out of a home from the looks of the address on Mapquest!!!
3---There have been two complaints registered with the BBB and one was not responded to by Botta. The other one was evidently resolved when he responded, but it sounds like it wasn't to the satisfaction of the complainant. That is how the business got the F rating!
IMHO there is no reason to go through a booking agent to have a good outfitted hunt. Look at where you want to go and what outfitters are in that area. Most will have a working website that you can look at to get a feel and then you can contact them for more information. The main thing you should ask for is a current list of all the previous clients for the last couple seasons, including all those who ate tag soup. If they aren't willing to do that, go to the next and cross them off your list. If this complaint is on the up and up I will shed no tears when a guy says he dropped $2K to somebody he didn't know from a can of paint and it looks like he didn't do any homework at all before sending the check!!! This is another one of those "he said-she said" that none of us haveany idea of what actually is going on because we know nothing about either Botta or the complainant. I write these off now when I read them as a waste of my good time!
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 01-12-2014 at 02:33 PM.
01-12-2014, 12:00 PM
#35
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,381
Well, since you're dropping/posting the "Moderator is trying to decide whether to delete it" phrase (on another website of course), I guess I should post something about that since moderators on HNI have to make the same deliberations. HNI rules don't allow somebody to simply bash a business for the sake of bashing but do allow a member to post a legitimate problem they've had with the service/product from that business.
Topics like this one could go either way, depending on how people post in them. This makes them somewhat hard to decide how to moderate, edit, delete or do nothing at all with them.
In this particular post, the OP is claiming he paid money to the Outfitter for a service he did not receive. The outfitter posted that he offered a service that the OP wasn't satisfied with. As you and others have posted, we don't have a copy of the contract and thus don't know what was specifically "contracted" for. Each side claims they are right and the other is wrong.
The OP may be negligent (or "lazy" as somebody opined) in not checking out references. The outfitter may or may not be able to deliver what he specifically advertises/contracts to deliver. Topics like this may offend some members but they also serve to illustrate proper hunter research one should conduct BEFORE signing any contract with an outfitter AND proper steps to resolve issues or problems that arise that may be specific to a state and/or area (Flags post comes specifically to mind) and thus are invaluable advice.
If allowing this topic to remain (as long as it stays within HNI rules) helps an HNI member(s) either avoid a hunting problem like the one described or find a better resolution by following the excellent advice posted, then it's worth having such a topic in the forums. Who knows, maybe the extra spotlight even helps a little more to resolve the problem.
p.s. Since this topic already has over 2,000 views, I think it's safe to assume that some of this stuff may occur.
Topics like this one could go either way, depending on how people post in them. This makes them somewhat hard to decide how to moderate, edit, delete or do nothing at all with them.
In this particular post, the OP is claiming he paid money to the Outfitter for a service he did not receive. The outfitter posted that he offered a service that the OP wasn't satisfied with. As you and others have posted, we don't have a copy of the contract and thus don't know what was specifically "contracted" for. Each side claims they are right and the other is wrong.
The OP may be negligent (or "lazy" as somebody opined) in not checking out references. The outfitter may or may not be able to deliver what he specifically advertises/contracts to deliver. Topics like this may offend some members but they also serve to illustrate proper hunter research one should conduct BEFORE signing any contract with an outfitter AND proper steps to resolve issues or problems that arise that may be specific to a state and/or area (Flags post comes specifically to mind) and thus are invaluable advice.
If allowing this topic to remain (as long as it stays within HNI rules) helps an HNI member(s) either avoid a hunting problem like the one described or find a better resolution by following the excellent advice posted, then it's worth having such a topic in the forums. Who knows, maybe the extra spotlight even helps a little more to resolve the problem.
p.s. Since this topic already has over 2,000 views, I think it's safe to assume that some of this stuff may occur.
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4. No topics and/or statements which could be used to reflect poorly on hunting, archery or firearms. Anti-hunting and other posts indicating a stance against the hunting, archery or the firearm industry will be removed and your account will be banned.
16. Brand Bashing and generally argumentative posts will not be tolerated. Legitimate posts regarding problems that you have experienced with a particular piece of equipment or service will be allowed. However, posts that are directly bashing a product or manufacturer are not allowed on HuntingNet.com. These forums and chat room are designed as a place for hunters to gather to exchange stories, advice, and meet other hunters from around the world - not to argue amongst ourselves or to talk down about any individual business or product. All posts of this nature will be removed and disciplinary action will be taken against their author.
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Last edited by CalHunter; 01-13-2014 at 07:03 AM.
01-12-2014, 12:20 PM
#36
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
This one sounds like you would need more information to get to the bottom of it.
There is more information.
This hunt was supposed to be a lease on multiple private farms in IOWA during the 2nd gun season 2009. My friend and I drove 25 hrs to get there and found out that the "farmer" who's land we were supposed to hunt didn't have any land because he was not a farmer but some out of work handyman. We spent 3 days trying to salvage out hunt with no avail. We never got to hunt because there was no land to hunt. We got totally screwed. Rich agreed to refund our money. First it was by the end of January, then it was by the end of February. Still no refund. We wasted 5 days, gas money, tags, lodging and our deposit of $600 each. NEVER USE THIS GUY, HE IS A CROOK..........BEWARE THIS GUY SELLS HUNTS ON EBAY. my email is [email protected] if you would like any further info.
More from 24 hour campfire:
DO NOT USE THIS STUTTERING CON ARTIST. Myself and friend made the mistake of booking with this ahole in 2009 a couple of years ago for a late season Iowa buck hunt, semiguided on private farms. I posted a full review on Nexthunt.com and Bowsite.com. And just recently within the past week I have been contacted by two other people who were also ripped off. HE IS A LIAR and never refunded my money..............on a hunt where we never even go to hunt because he tried to have some guy sneak us on private property where we would have been arrested. If you have any question email me at magnum72576
yahoo.com. TONY
yahoo.com. TONY
01-12-2014, 02:19 PM
#38
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Calhunter---Just a thought, but how about possibly making a separate Forum for this type of stuff where people could come on and tell the good, bad, and the ugly regarding outfitters and booking agents. That way people just getting started could learn what it takes to ensure they spend their money properly. Guys like myself with decades of experience know the ins and outs of all this stuff and probably take a lot of things for granted that the younger guys don't. For instance, many think that because they are dealing with hunting that everything is on the up and up, while it's nothing more than a profit making business for some and they could care less how they make that profit. It's sad, but true!
01-12-2014, 08:40 PM
#39
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,381
I have asked admin about that but haven't heard any feedback yet. It's still an excellent suggestion as it would allow all of these posts to be dealt with in 1 forum instead of being spread out a bit. I'll check again.
Cal
Edit--I've sent a lengthy request and explanation to Admin regarding a separate forum for these types of posts. In the meantime, I'm moving this topic to the outfitter forum where it sort of belongs a bit more.
Cal
Edit--I've sent a lengthy request and explanation to Admin regarding a separate forum for these types of posts. In the meantime, I'm moving this topic to the outfitter forum where it sort of belongs a bit more.
Last edited by CalHunter; 01-13-2014 at 07:05 AM.
01-12-2014, 09:53 PM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
One thing I'm a little curious about is why this is even posted in the whitetail forum? I've been hunting deer, elk and pronghorn around Craig, CO for the better part of 4 decades. That is mulie country not whitetail country. I'm going to go out on a limb and say there probably isn't a whitetail within 100 miles of Craig in any direction. I know I've never seen one there, neither has anyone I hunt with and I've never heard anyone mention seeing one.
The farthest west I've seen a Whitetail in CO was outside of Gould and that is a long ways from Craig. I actually took one by Kremmling once but that is also a long ways from Craig. Just sayin' it is funny this is on a whitetail forum. I don't approve of any guide/outfitter taking advantage of a client. I've never even used an outfitter or a guide in CO and never would. There is a huge amount of hunting you can do on your own and I don't want someone dragging me around and holding my hand unless it is required by law i.e. Canada and Africa. Other than that, I'll hunt on my own and so far I've been pretty successful at it.
The farthest west I've seen a Whitetail in CO was outside of Gould and that is a long ways from Craig. I actually took one by Kremmling once but that is also a long ways from Craig. Just sayin' it is funny this is on a whitetail forum. I don't approve of any guide/outfitter taking advantage of a client. I've never even used an outfitter or a guide in CO and never would. There is a huge amount of hunting you can do on your own and I don't want someone dragging me around and holding my hand unless it is required by law i.e. Canada and Africa. Other than that, I'll hunt on my own and so far I've been pretty successful at it.
Last edited by flags; 01-12-2014 at 10:07 PM.