Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Any lessons learned out there regarding gun safes? Bought a safe and later thought I wish this safe had a? or I should have bought a safe that holds X number of guns? Please share any positive experiences you've had with a particular brand or model.

Any positive advise you could share would be appreciated.

Tks,
Scott

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

MD,

Yes pick a safe with the right capacity for the long guns you plan to have.
The main thing when buying a safe is, do you want a burgler proof, fire proof
or both?Both is more expensive. You can purchase a safe that will resist burgler
attack for 30mins or 1hr or 6hrs. Safes come in different fire ratings.How much
heat can it take for how long of time.Safe's could be protected on 2 sides,4sides or
six sides for burgleries. The more protected for burglery and fire the more the cost.

Now come's the door and the combination lock. Doors should be at least 1" or thicker.
Combinations should meet goverment spec's like Sargent & Greenleaf, for a gun
safe a three wheel pack will do. Three wheel pack's have 100 numbers on each
wheel.....100x100x100>is 1 million possible combinations. These are the one's that
should be on a gun safe. Stay away from the cheaper combinations.They are easy to
open.They should also need to be protected when installed.They should have ceramic
plate between door and lock or carbide plate, to resist drilling.They should have internal
and external re-lockers in case they are punched in.The door should also have a
re-locker system in case the handle or wheel is knocked off. The combination should
be key change and not hand change.

Most of the gun owners buy from Cabelas,Bass Pro or Sporting Good stores. Go to a
Lock & Safe shop and ask them the qualities of thier safe's. Ask them to explain thier safe's
to you. Ask if they have American "STAR" Safe's. These are good quality safe's. Any safe
you buy you will have to either install heat lamp or a couple tubs of DAMP-RID to keep
moisture off your gun's, cameras or important papers.

I did safe's and bank vaults for my self for 15yrs and 20yrs of safe openings with the Sheriff's
Dept., attached to the drug enforcement unit.I have all the tools needed to open safe's.
Believe me there's alot of cheapies out there and real easy to open.

GOOD LUCK....

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Best deal I found and purchased was at Sam's Club,I believe it holds 20 long guns,has a shelf above for ammo,handguns personal papers etc. It's a Winchester Safe and cost is $699.00

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Rebel Hog gave you great advice.

In addition, choose a safe size that is bigger than you think you will need.
It is the garage syndrome--they never seem to be big enough. You'll find all sorts of things in addition to guns that need to be secured.

Also, make sure that it is fastened properly to floor, walls, etc, If you can move it into your house, someone else can move it out. Concrete anchors top/side, and bottom are probably best, but bolts and lags into heavy wood are good, too.

And, check the side wall thickness. Get as thick as you can afford. Few good old boy burglars can defeat a decent door, and few professionals will bother with a gun safe. But, the metal in the sides , top and bottom are much thinner, and will often be attacked by the amateur.

I am not suggesting that you do this, but a friend of mine has a sign on his safe "BLACK POWDER STORED INSIDE". Whether or not there actually is, I will not say, but someone using a grinder, or torch on his safe will certainly need an adventurous spirit.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

In my local area shooters from a club I belonged to were being broke into and guns stolen.
I had a fair number of guys that new I ( used to )had a few higher $$ guns (non shooters) so I braged up the fact I bought the top end safe ( door weighs about 500 lbs).

I am not sure it was the fact I had put the word out I had put everything in the safe that I never got broke into .

Could not have hurt

I bought a safe a little biger than I realy needed ,but that allowed my colection to grow if needed ( I always want another one)

Johnch

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Lesson I learned is all the ones I can afford are imported from Asia. I got a Liberty safe at Big R. I like it fine, but its Chinese. Wish someone in the US could/would make 'em as good and affordable.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

What do you do if you lock your guns in it and can't unlock it. Its not likely that you will pop the lock?

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

I have a Fort Knox safe and really like it, It has about 20 1" locking lugs a Sargeant-Greenleaf combination lock and rated for 30 minutes at 1200 degrees, It holds 22 long guns and I wish it was bigger, when I bought it I thought that would be big enough. Be sure and get some kind of dehumidifier rod to go in it, I have one called the golden rod, I have some guns that I have'nt oiled in years and they are still nice and clean, no rust at all.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

As added protection along with a good safe,it wouldn't be a bad idea having a Professional Alarm system installed.While working trying to get in the safe the cops are on the way.Once installed they're only about a 1.00 a day.I've had ADT for about 10 years. It's nice having that added peace of mind.They are monitored 24/7.Most insurance co's give a break on Home Owners Insurance when you have a alarm system installed.I believe I'm getting 15%. That right there pays for the alarm system.

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Jones123 I'm not doubting your word. This came right from Liberty's site.

Ruger Redhawk



LibertySafes - #1 Selling...


Made in the USA

Experience You Can Trust...

Made in USA

All Liberty and National Security Safes are made in our state-of-the art manufacturing plant in Payson Utah.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Like Rebel Hog and Strut both have mentioned. A heated rod or heat lamp is a must.Moisture in these safes can and will cause allot of damage.I use the Golden Rods in mine.They work great.Most shooter suppliers carry them at a much more reasonable price, then the safe companies offer them for.I got mine through Midshouth. Depending on the length you need they run between 25.00 and 30.00 bucks.A small investment to protect your bigger investment.

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

I have a Fort Knox safe and I'm not happy with the way the door is hung. It's a little crooked - I spent a lot of time on the phone with a fellow at their factory and it's still screwed up.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

I have a Old Pro Steel.Apparently it was dropped in shipment. There is a crease up on the top of one of the sides.It wasn't hurting anything. It's been that way for over 20 years.After a attempted break in it got skinned up.If I ever decide to repaint it I'll bang that crease out..I can see where a door being hung crooked could cause concerns.Fort Knox are suppose to be one of the top of the lines.I hope you can get this resolved.

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Rick, when the door is Opened at 90 degrees can it be lifted off the Hinges? Some can and some can't.
If it can, try installing a couple SS washers where needed. Are the bolts hard to throw back when you turn the
handle or wheel? Most handles and wheels are shear pinned for so many pounds of force, in case of attcak.
If it shears you will have to call a safe man that's familiar with that make of safe and is properly tooled
for the job, or he will make it look like Swiss Cheese. Even if he is a professtional, he is still going to have
to take it to the shop to plug it with carbide tapered pins or pieces of carbide drill bits, weld it and paint it.
You will have no door on the safe for 4 to 5 days,
All because of a sheared handle pin. At least onece a year vacuum the bottom bolt holes on your safe
and a Light Coat of Lubi-Plate or White Grease on all bolts. Never oil the combo lock! If oil gets between
the wheel pack it will create a VACUUM between the wheels and ALL wheels will turn at the same time.
Quess what......YEP!....another CALL.
$200 for the first hour and $45 for each additional hour, plus cost and materials and does'nt cover shop
work to repair door,that's additional!

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

I like the Liberty safe. Fire resistant, rolling lock bars and the thief that carries this thing out of my basement I would not argue with. Weight without the guns is over 1,500 lbs. It's bolted to a slab poured just for the base. Any animal that can get this thing loose and up 10 steps earned the safe, but his still won't get it open without the combination.:D

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Jones, YES they do!....American "Star" Security out of Calif. {AMSEC.}
Their top safe's have 1" of steel not sheet metal on 5 sides and 1 1/2" steel doors not sheet metal
and Sargent & Greenleaf combo locks and protected with carbide MATIX plates and Glass Relockers.
You can also get Diebold and Mosler out of Ohio. Anything else is a fire proof gun LOCKER and not a safe.
Yes, I know most gun owners buy whats affordable and I don't BLAME them.
All the the others I can open in about 1 and ahalf hours and the one's I mentioned, it will take about 5 to 6
hours with help because I am not berglurising it, I have to get it opened proffesionately.

If you don't have one of these, I strongly would follow RugerRedHawk's advice!

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

DITTO......RUGER....

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Rebel Hog, Since you were in the safe business I have a question.When my ProSteel was attacked. The shear pin was sheared.I called ProSteel about a new shear pin.I got nowhere.I have a cotter pin in it now. I think it would shear but not sure.What would you recommend putting in it?If I remember correctly it's approx a 1/4" hole in the handle.Could you tell me where I might order the correct pin?And or what would you recommend putting in it? I had a aluminum wire that was undersized. There was allot of slop in the handle.The cotter pin tightened the handle but my concern is if it will shear again if another attempted break in occurs.I had to laugh when the locksmith came out to open it he asked for the combo.He made a paper dial.It opened.Then his guy I don't know from Adam says he forgot to bring something from his shop. My safe is opened and he asked if I would run to his shop for the thing he forgot.I don't think so.The next day the safe was gone to my brothers house. I'm impressed with my ProSteel. The thug sheared the pin,tried prying the dail off,but it kept him out.That right there paid for the safe.I recommend any gun owner to invest in a safe and a alarm system.It only takes one time to clean you out.

Thanks for your help Rebel Hog.

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Thanks rebelhog. I sure couldn't find any that would come close to competing when I shopped. If I'd knowed then, I sure woulda supported American made; I always try to do so.

I will take ruger's advice.

Where were you when I was buying my safe? ;)

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

How dare you doubt ME!

Just kidding. Thanks for that bit of info. I could have been more specific. My safe says "CENTURION . . . by Liberty" on the front door. I thought I was stealing an American made safe for a bargain $500. The packing box and labels clearly said made in China. Apparently Liberty has a knock-off like so many others (?).

Unless, by wild chance, only the box and labels were made in China? :eek:

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Jones My hunting partner and I bought bought a Liberty 23 gun models when Walmart was closing them out after Christmas of 03.We got these with the Electronic locks for right at 6 bills.Liberty has a much better warranty againist Fire and break ins compared to Cannon.They look just about identical. Go to www.libertysafe.com you'll see what a great warranty they have. Then go to www.Cannonsafe.com and compare.

Rebel Hog, Those American Stars sound like the ticket.Approx what do they run?Say a 60"x30"x24" like the Liberty I have.With all that steel it would take Fort Knox to pay the shipping.They must weigh a ton.

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Thanks. I will check to see if my "CENTURION . . . by Liberty" has a Liberty warranty.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Ruger,
Go to a good lock and safe shop , sometimes they have them laying around thier tool boxe's,
or have safe's just for parts or go to an out board motor shop and see what lenght and diameter
they have.
I always used un-hardened Roll Pins. Many safes come with them.

As for AMSEC "STAR"safes, most good lock and safe shop's carry or can get them.
I have seen them used from $1600-$2000 in alot of shops.
Close to me is COLLIER SAFE CO. in Odesa Fl. and National Safe CO. in Clearwater Fl..
They make Bank quality safes and vault doors.
I like Diebold, Mosler and Amsec, but I understand most working hunters on a budget
can only afford the common and I can't blame them. They should take your GOOD advise
and Alarm them, depending on thier colletion or even a couple of top $$$$ guns.

A little Trivia.......The only thing standing in Hiroshima after the bomb was the Mosler Bank Vaults!
How's that for a name? Diebold is considered just as good IMHO.
For the home AMSEC is top of the line of safe's,but make sure your floor can support the weight
because they are heavy.

I don't want to comment on how the safe man opened yours! Not on the Forum!
When Liberty Safe's first started, I met the man who started it, in a Safe Show here
in town. He had the backs off the doors to show his design of the bolt works. He incorperated
a good lock anti-drill system on them. IMHO Liberty is a well protected safe for the money.
They make less expensive ones too.

The person who burglarised your's did not
know what he was doing or he would have gotten your guns. Probably a young kid!
I won't mention how on the forum.

When people go in Lock and Safe shops, the sales person is going to push the Item where
he is going to make the most profit.

Make sure you know about his reputation? Some of them will sell information about your
safe location and even combination. Ask him to show you proof of Insurance and he needs to be BONDED!

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

MD....are you picking up on the advise all are giving?

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Rebel Hog thanks for your information,there are several Locksmiths around my area.I'll go by the one I used and ask about a shear pin.You got my attention when you said the thug didn't know what he was doing or he would have gotten in it.All this happened when I lved in Miami.Not saying it can't happen anywhere.Those Star safes sound like they are top of the line.Reasonable if you can find a used one in that price range you mentioned.The weight wouldn't concern me.I have a concrete deck.I agree it's best not saying to much on the forums.I do appreciate your comments.If you have anything you want to add shoot me a PM or email.Thanks again

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

That's what I liked about the Locksmith I used.They never asked for name or address.I do see your point. That could be a very easy inside job.I would have been leery giving any personal information to them. I had a small safe . I had them change the combo.I think it was 25.00 for changing it.I took the door to them.It was a small fire resistant safe mainly for small items and papers.I must say this has been a very interesting topic.I've learned allot.Thanks for all the good advice

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Very interesting information being passed... thanks for all the input. Plan on making a few phone calls to local locksmiths to see what is available. To be honest, I planned on checking out the local Bass Pro Shop to see their Browning and Redhead safes, but I see there is quite a bit more options out there.

Regarding the house alarm... My home is protected by ADT, but are you recommending I have a sensor placed on the safe as well?

Regarding the amount of temperature a safe can withstand... what is the recommended temp/time? Don't want to be doped into more than I actually need. I always go overboard on these type of things.

Regarding the combo... what is the word on dial or digital?

Again, very informative feedback. Thanks for all the posts.

MD Piney

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Man, you already have ADT, no problem! Yes have them run wire and install a sensor.
Minimum 1400*/ 30min fire proof.
I prefer Sargent & Greenleal mechcanical combo, but if you are planning to install a sensor, you can go with
digital.
Remember about what was said about moisture?

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

I hate to digress on this thread, but you got me curious, so I went to their site. Centurion is a line of safes sold by Liberty. They leave "Centurion" out of the above statement, but they never say Centurion is imported.

Obviously they needed to succumb to competition and started a line of imported safes. Very difficult to discern this from their site.

So I guess I kinda own a Liberty but not really. Same but different. Alike but different in the respect that they are not the same. They share the same differences from each other. One compares to the other the same way. They are exactly alike except in the respect that one has differences.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

Jones I never heard of the Centurion line.I'm sure they had to meet Liberty's specs.They farmed it out for the cheaper labor. I wouldn't be overly concerned.I don't believe Liberty would put any junk out to tarnish they name.

MD Since you already have a alarm system you have half the battle won.

Ruger Redhawk

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

I take it that a mechanical dial is more secure than digital? Thus your comment about ADT and the use of a digital dial? How about the heat wands that combat moisture... how do you power them? Are they battery operated or can you get AC power to them?

Sure is a lot more to these safes than one would think!

Thanks again for the feedback,

Piney

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

I don't know about the security of the dials but on the de-humidifier rod about all safes have a hole in the back to run the cord thru to power it.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

think of capacity. i got one last year and now i don't have room for all my guns. they have to be stashed else where.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?Page 4
 

MD,this is an AMSEC, they make one even better than this one.
Depends how mush you want to invest in one.
This one has locking dial so no one can come up and just start playing and spinning it.
The reason is you dial a combination you don't spin it. The combo wheels have parts
on them {called flys} that pick each other up when dialing.If you spin them hard, one
might break off. You'll have a complete lock out! And would have to be drilled open.

RE: Gun Safes: Lessons Learned?
 

WOULD BE MORE THAN GLAD TOO!