Binoculars
09-02-2003, 06:21 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Castle Pa USA
Posts: 38
Binoculars
I have a question. Getting ready to purchase new binoculars, but don' t understand the differences between roof or porro prizms. I will be using them for a Elk/Mule deer hunt in Colorado during the third season. Any info, or suggestions on models would really help. I' m reading so much info, I' m getting confused...
09-02-2003, 08:04 PM
#2
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: East Central Wisconsin
Posts: 162
RE: Binoculars
The difference between porro and roof prism binocs is in the prism design. The roof prism type features a inline mounted prism and has straight tubes. Porro prism binocs features an offset prism and is characterized by the classic " z" shaped outline. Porro prisms are easier to manufacture and cost less. Roof prisms are more difficult to align and manufacture and cost more. Roof types are generally smaller.
As far as brands, any of the top quality optics manufacturers would be a good choise such as Swarovski, Zeiss, Leupold or Nikon. I like 10x42' s. Hope this helps.
As far as brands, any of the top quality optics manufacturers would be a good choise such as Swarovski, Zeiss, Leupold or Nikon. I like 10x42' s. Hope this helps.
09-03-2003, 11:14 PM
#3
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location:
Posts: 46
RE: Binoculars
Hi I have been using a pair of Bushnell Trophy binoculars that last few years and was thinking of upgrading. I did a lot of research and plus asked a lot of questions. I think I will be getting the Pentax DCF HR II or maybe the Nikon Monarchs they are both around $299. I might order both and compare them as I can not find anyone around here that has them both. You can get better but you will have to spend more.
09-04-2003, 01:10 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Raleigh NC USA
Posts: 352
RE: Binoculars
For a good tutorial on the various types of binoculars check out this Cabela' s buyer' s guide http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/co...e_710023.jhtml
From what I' ve read, the porro prism binoculars are harder to make waterproof. Steiner has done it, but you' ll find that most of the waterproof/fog proof/shock proof binoculars recommended on the hunting sites will be roof prism.
I' m in the same predicament you are, buying a pair for an upcoming elk hunt in Colorado. Many will fit your needs at noon, but look for something that' ll be better in low light situations. From what I' ve read, most opportunities are going to present themselves near dawn and dusk. This will challenge the light gathering abilities of your binoculars. In this regard 8x42' s will serve better than 10x28' s. There' s some good information in the link regarding exit pupil, eye relief, etc. I won' t plagerize that here, but consider those items in your purchase.
Check out the names mentioned around here, depending on your budget. Nikon Monarchs, Wind River (Leopold) have some good offerings in the $300 - $400 range. Pentax DCF WP' s are in that range, if they' re still available (they' ve been replaced by DCF SP' s at around $600). Also take a look at Brunton Eterna' s. About $400, good field of view, nice clarity. For my eyes, superior to the Pentax and Wind River line (I wear glasses and need the eye relief). They weigh in at 30 ounces, same as the Nikon Venturers and Leica Trinovids. They have a very rugged case on them, which contributes to the weight. Check them out at www.brunton.com.
Higher priced is the Nikon Venturers, Zeiss Victories, and Leica' s at $1,000. Swarovski' s can run a good $1,500 along with a set of Brunton Epoch' s.
Find a shop that carries several different models that you' re interested in and go check them out. I' ve seen the advice several times to get the best glass you can afford. You might have a $700 rifle topped with a $300 scope that you' ll use for a (relative) few minutes. You' ll be looking through your binoculars for hours. And if you buy good stuff it may be a once in a lifetime purchase, or certainly good for many years to come.
I' m still undecided. I' ve made 5 trips to compare, have eliminated the Pentax line, still trying to make up my mind. Shop around but beware the internet shops that have a too good to be true price. They may be selling grey market goods, not covered by a US warranty. Check the manufacturers web site to verify that you' ve got an authorized dealer.
From what I' ve read, the porro prism binoculars are harder to make waterproof. Steiner has done it, but you' ll find that most of the waterproof/fog proof/shock proof binoculars recommended on the hunting sites will be roof prism.
I' m in the same predicament you are, buying a pair for an upcoming elk hunt in Colorado. Many will fit your needs at noon, but look for something that' ll be better in low light situations. From what I' ve read, most opportunities are going to present themselves near dawn and dusk. This will challenge the light gathering abilities of your binoculars. In this regard 8x42' s will serve better than 10x28' s. There' s some good information in the link regarding exit pupil, eye relief, etc. I won' t plagerize that here, but consider those items in your purchase.
Check out the names mentioned around here, depending on your budget. Nikon Monarchs, Wind River (Leopold) have some good offerings in the $300 - $400 range. Pentax DCF WP' s are in that range, if they' re still available (they' ve been replaced by DCF SP' s at around $600). Also take a look at Brunton Eterna' s. About $400, good field of view, nice clarity. For my eyes, superior to the Pentax and Wind River line (I wear glasses and need the eye relief). They weigh in at 30 ounces, same as the Nikon Venturers and Leica Trinovids. They have a very rugged case on them, which contributes to the weight. Check them out at www.brunton.com.
Higher priced is the Nikon Venturers, Zeiss Victories, and Leica' s at $1,000. Swarovski' s can run a good $1,500 along with a set of Brunton Epoch' s.
Find a shop that carries several different models that you' re interested in and go check them out. I' ve seen the advice several times to get the best glass you can afford. You might have a $700 rifle topped with a $300 scope that you' ll use for a (relative) few minutes. You' ll be looking through your binoculars for hours. And if you buy good stuff it may be a once in a lifetime purchase, or certainly good for many years to come.
I' m still undecided. I' ve made 5 trips to compare, have eliminated the Pentax line, still trying to make up my mind. Shop around but beware the internet shops that have a too good to be true price. They may be selling grey market goods, not covered by a US warranty. Check the manufacturers web site to verify that you' ve got an authorized dealer.
09-05-2003, 08:48 AM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: meridian idaho USA
Posts: 429
RE: Binoculars
When making your decision make sure to make an honest evaluation of how much time you will actually spend behind your binoculars.
Seems silly to spend even $500 for a pair of binoculars you may spend 10 minutes looking through.
If you are going to spend hours looking through them then definitely spend the extra money and get good ones.
You can get a better pair of porro prisms for the money than the same quality of the roof prism variety.
Seems silly to spend even $500 for a pair of binoculars you may spend 10 minutes looking through.
If you are going to spend hours looking through them then definitely spend the extra money and get good ones.
You can get a better pair of porro prisms for the money than the same quality of the roof prism variety.
09-05-2003, 09:48 AM
#6
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: Binoculars
Porros can be made into quality glass (I have used a pair of 8x32 Steiners while gun hunting since they came with a new 4wheeler I bought in 97 and they are quite good lil glasses). For bowhunting and turkey hunting I prefer a compact pair and have one pair of Zeiss 8x25 and a pair of Optolyth 8x25. They both are roof prism and are quality European optics that, despite there size, perform better than anything most hunters in my places are using (like Nikon, Leupold/Wind River, Simmons etc) regardless whether they are roofs or porros.
Roof prisms are essentially two " scopes" mounted side by side and because they are " straight" they accel in gathering light and are clearer than most porros. Porros are tubes mounted to a " channel" that actually has mirrors in each tube. When you look thru a porro setup you are actually seeing a reflected image. This is why the optical quality of most porros is not as good as a roof design. The more you bend/move light and images, the more the quality of that image deteriorates. The image also depends heavily on the quality of the mirrors inside those porro types. Roofs do away with this problem as you are then looking at the true image. Roofs are also easier to waterproof/seal as they have less seams than do porros.
Several times I have come near to getting a pair of 10x40 (or bigger) European roof prisms like Zeiss or Swarovski as they are the absolute best. But I am glad I have waited. This fall Zeiss is releasing a fullsized roof prism series of binoculars that will feature their standard excellence and superiority, but will retail in the $500 range. I prefer at least a 10 and preferably a 12 power for gunhunting.
Dont buy into the notion that you should scrimp on optics. They are THE most important piece of equipment you will use. I spend as much time looking thru binoculars as I do using my own eyes. A cheap pair of japcrap binocs will have your eyes hurting before the end of the day. A quality set of glasses will not only save your comfort, but will have you using them more and that will only make you a better hunter. I also encourage hunters to purchase quality scopes to go with quality binocs.
What good is finding your quarry thru quality binocs if your scope isnt good enough to pick them up for the shot? I have actually seen this cost a hunter a BIIIG buck before. Our biologist had borrowed a pair of Zeiss binocs from my brother for an opening day hunt on our place in MO. At daylight (still " pink light" ) thru the binocs he could see two bucks and a doe across the field at the woods edge. One was a very nice 8 or 10 ptr but the other was a buck I had seen the week before while bowhunting closeby. It was a true B&C 8 ptr!!! (Rarest among the trophies! I' m talkin a true JAW DROPPIN, OH GOD buck.) He could cleanly see the deer thru the Zeiss binocs, but when he put his Leupold VariX I scope on them he couldnt see anything but outlines or black blobs under the timbers edge appx 250 yds away. Needless to say he didnt get the shot and that buck never got taken. I have seen many more instances similar, but that one was the most impacting and heartbreaking for sure. Is a few hundred dollars (or even a thousand) on a onetime purchase worth possibly losing the biggest buck of your life?
Good luck,
RA
Roof prisms are essentially two " scopes" mounted side by side and because they are " straight" they accel in gathering light and are clearer than most porros. Porros are tubes mounted to a " channel" that actually has mirrors in each tube. When you look thru a porro setup you are actually seeing a reflected image. This is why the optical quality of most porros is not as good as a roof design. The more you bend/move light and images, the more the quality of that image deteriorates. The image also depends heavily on the quality of the mirrors inside those porro types. Roofs do away with this problem as you are then looking at the true image. Roofs are also easier to waterproof/seal as they have less seams than do porros.
Several times I have come near to getting a pair of 10x40 (or bigger) European roof prisms like Zeiss or Swarovski as they are the absolute best. But I am glad I have waited. This fall Zeiss is releasing a fullsized roof prism series of binoculars that will feature their standard excellence and superiority, but will retail in the $500 range. I prefer at least a 10 and preferably a 12 power for gunhunting.
Dont buy into the notion that you should scrimp on optics. They are THE most important piece of equipment you will use. I spend as much time looking thru binoculars as I do using my own eyes. A cheap pair of japcrap binocs will have your eyes hurting before the end of the day. A quality set of glasses will not only save your comfort, but will have you using them more and that will only make you a better hunter. I also encourage hunters to purchase quality scopes to go with quality binocs.
What good is finding your quarry thru quality binocs if your scope isnt good enough to pick them up for the shot? I have actually seen this cost a hunter a BIIIG buck before. Our biologist had borrowed a pair of Zeiss binocs from my brother for an opening day hunt on our place in MO. At daylight (still " pink light" ) thru the binocs he could see two bucks and a doe across the field at the woods edge. One was a very nice 8 or 10 ptr but the other was a buck I had seen the week before while bowhunting closeby. It was a true B&C 8 ptr!!! (Rarest among the trophies! I' m talkin a true JAW DROPPIN, OH GOD buck.) He could cleanly see the deer thru the Zeiss binocs, but when he put his Leupold VariX I scope on them he couldnt see anything but outlines or black blobs under the timbers edge appx 250 yds away. Needless to say he didnt get the shot and that buck never got taken. I have seen many more instances similar, but that one was the most impacting and heartbreaking for sure. Is a few hundred dollars (or even a thousand) on a onetime purchase worth possibly losing the biggest buck of your life?
Good luck,
RA
09-11-2003, 11:13 PM
#8
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location:
Posts: 46
RE: Binoculars
Hi mrr
I still have not had a chance to compare the two. I was going to order both from Cabelas and then send the one I did not like best back. If I had to order just one I think I would get the Pentax but would really like to compare since I think the Monarchs are a little smaller and lighter.
I still have not had a chance to compare the two. I was going to order both from Cabelas and then send the one I did not like best back. If I had to order just one I think I would get the Pentax but would really like to compare since I think the Monarchs are a little smaller and lighter.
09-12-2003, 01:36 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Roanoke Rapids North Carolina USA
Posts: 83
RE: Binoculars
I just got my Nikon monarch 10x42' s and i think there great binoculars. I compared em to the wind river 10x42 cascades and to tell ya the truth i cant see a lot of difference in them. I will try em out at dusk and see if there any better than the wind river ones.
P.S. It would be just my luck to buy these when Zeiss is coming out with something else.....
P.S. It would be just my luck to buy these when Zeiss is coming out with something else.....
