mustad

Are you providing a 100% guarantee on these pups that they will not have problems? That shows a lot of confidence in your genetics; especially without tests to back it up. What would you do if one or more of the pups turns out to have hip dysplasia?

Personally, in my breed of choice, we only keep an close eye on hip dysplasia and dental problems. Using OFA, I would never breed anything worse than Fair; and Fair hips would only be bred to Excellent hips. Any dental problems, regardless whether its a jaw development issues, a malocclusion of any type or missing/extra teeth and the dog is removed from the breeding program.

Doc E

Poor fella can't come up with any more intellectually stimulatingresponses.


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vindog

Doc you don't deserve a response. You pretty much ruined the guys thread already so why should he. Wingchaser good luck with your pups, i am sure you wont have any problems. Next year i will be looking for a pup and i will keep you in mind.

bowfisherman

He ruins all the threads. He just comes on to argue. Theres a few on every forum.

Doc E

If someone would truly post something intellectual that would disprove my comments, I'd certainly be "put in my place" now wouldn't I?
Too bad that nobody can in a case like this.


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Doc E

No more than he cares about dog health, he'll probably be breeding these dogs at her next heat cycle anyway

Good Luck with your new pup ---- You'll need it.


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wingchaser_labs

Like I said I'm done with doc and didnt even read his posts so no I have no comment. I guess all you can do is ignorethe guy cuz obviously he has nothign better to doI didnt come on here to fight about ****. I did read the last comment though and your wrong doc, she will not be bred her next heat cycle but yes will be bred again, so don't be a dick and judge others based on your arrogant control mindset. I'm SERIOUSLY done with you and dont give a crap what you wanna tell me yet you continue to do so wasting your time for some reason I guess. Post all you want on here I really dont care cuz I'm not gonna be reading it anyways. Have a good one and take er easy. WCL

Vindog- If your lookin for a pup next year look me up. I prolly won't have a litter myself but a guy I know uses my male once or twice a year and I get pick of the litter pup so I may be able to have one for you depending on when he decides to use him. Thanks

daleh

When you deal with Labs, Spaniels or other breeds of dogs that have genetic problems. You are going to run across these questions. It is not only Doc or the other 1000s of people who want to see a breedbettered as a whole.
It is your responsibility as breeder to make sure that your sire and dam are registered and have all of their tests completed. This is nothing new, it just didn't come about this year. This has been going on for quite a while.

racewayking

X2---I have a dear friend and she breeds dual purpose English Labs. I have been to nearly every Lab Specialty show in the Midwest. I have eaten dinner with Kendall Herr, David Volet, Nancy Arbuckle, the late Annie Cogo, Karen Helmers, Carol Heidl, the list goes on. These breeders are preserving the original type of the breed and do not make money. They test for OFA, Optigen, Temper and guarantee their dogs.

When you are purchasing a dog you are investing on a lifetime of love and loyalty. Second guesses have no place in breeding animals, I have seen labs that came from great hunting backgrounds yet were cripled after a few years by hip and elbow issues.

I had a lab that was lost in a divorce due to Illinois policy of possession. I for one can track my dogs family history. I know she only carried the Black Gene ans did her Brother. I know they were both Optigen A and cleared through the family lines for hip and elbows. Breeding these dogs is not something to be taken lightly and guessing the health is not acceptable. If you buy a Lab and don't care about their health you are a fool. Here are my pups family-

Her brother and opposite pick of the litter
http://www.easthilllabs.com/hank.htm

Her Sire, number 1 lab in the world in 1997 and number one show dog in the US from 97-99. JH titled and hunted dual purpose show dog. This dog live to be 14 and never suffered a day with hip or elbow problems.
I was fortunate to meet him and there was never a nicer lab.
http://www.belquest.com/aaron.html

Her Dam who resides in Indiana and is still healthy and doing great.
http://www.bigskylabs.com/siggy.htm

I can find records going back generations on these dogs. The breeders have been around for decades in some cases and they spend the money testing these dogs out. Dogs that are found to be in danger of genetic disease are usually given away to familys that can care for them and will not run them to the point the the hip and elbow issues will get severe. Breeding dogs should not be a money making endeavor, it is about the preservation of the breed, if you do breed you owe it to the animals you breed to check health and breed to health. For those that have stuck up for stricter breeding thank you, life is too short to have an unhealthy and crippled lab.

Bruce H

Well said daleh. Yes, all breeds have their problems. And a responsible breeder will test their breeding dogs for the breed-specific problems. Not a gaurantee that the puppies will be free of the problems, just trying to narrow the odds a bit. If a breeder does no testing at all, then it really does become a crap-shoot.

I agree, this "discussion" is nothing new. The responsible breeders and the BYB's have been going at it for years and will probably continue forever. And just like there are breeders who don't care to do the testing, there are buyers who also don't do the research or don't care about the testing and the value of a responsible breeder. I can't count the number of calls I have got over the years where a person knows nothing about my breed (except they're cute)or where the first thing out of their mouth is "How much are your puppies". I can teach the ones who don't know anything about the breed, but, unfortunately,it's seldom that I can convince someone of the value of my dogs over the dogs for 1/2 the price from some BYB. The cheapest dog is not necessarily the cheapest dog.

I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that if you are thinking about buying a puppy, research the breed. Understand the differences between the responsible breeders and the BYB's. There's a TON of information out there.