racewayking

I don't think Doc is trying to look superior, I think he is trying to make a point.

Doc E

1. Yes I do -- and those people who sell pups at the local WalMart and along roadsides.

2. I make identical posts on every litter like this one. I'm not picking out any one particular person

3. I have said nothing about my dog or my dog's children.


.

JoeBigSky

Doc you have some valid points regarding nonreputable breeders of purebreed dogs, but your bed side manner could stand some improvement. No one likes to be talked down to. No one appreciates someone who preaches fromup on an ivory tower. You would do better to offer some concrete alternatives to the type of puppies you harangue posters on here about. Why not put out information on reputablebreeders in the poster's area? If someone expresses interest in a poster's noncertified pups, why not give that poster some contact info on certified pups in their local area? Such info would be much more helpful thanarrogant, self-righteous indignation.It may actually reduce demand for noncertified pups and put nonreputable breeders out of business. Of course, the same guys that claim toexamine a pup's pedigree going back 3 generations on both sides probably think nothing of jumping the bones on a scanky heifer of the two-legged variety at bar time. LOL.

Doc E

In my very first post, I said, "So, on the parents of this litter, do you have Hip or Elbow certifications? CNM? PRA? CERF? EIC?"
My posts after that were in response to other posts (some of which seem to have been removed).

And where you said, "Of course, the same guys that claim toexamine a pup's pedigree going back 3 generations on both sides probably think nothing of jumping the bones on a scanky heifer of the two-legged variety at bar time." Was certainly true of me back in my wild days (back in the stone age )


.

racewayking

Here is a great site with links to reputable breeders throughout the U.S.

www.wiscoy.com go to breeder links, there is also a forum.

Pheasanthunter41

What's interesting is this. I have spent a lot of money on testing dogs and numerous other things associated with breeding a litter. This is NOT a money making operation. In this case, I have a stud fee to deal with and because of how I had to price the pups to compensate for these expenses of being RESPONSIBLE, I'm having a hard time selling the pups. I'm in a well populated area and I get so many shmucks calling who simply ask the price and nothing else. I can tell they are calling a number of people and asking "how much"> As if that is the only concern.

I'm now forced to lower the price to sell puppies that are out of really nice hunting lines to people who don't have a clue what has gone into this breeding. These pups are now 9 weeks old and I have to get them into homes fast. So where has being RESPONSIBLE gotten me? There are people around doing nothing and breeding crap who sell pups like hotcakes with no regard for health or equally important, where the pups end up. They make a little money at it. I guess that's the way life is. I wouldn't go it any other way though, because that is the right way to be.

Saying I know my lines etc.... is a horsesh...t answer to reasons for not testing.



[/align]

Bruce H

I feel your pain and understand completely. I have been breeding and showing for only 10 to 11 years and all I can say is that breeding is anything but a money-making proposition when you're doing it right. But at least you can live with yourself, knowing that you are breeding GOOD dogs and making sure the puppies are going to good homes. When we get those calls where the first thing out of their mouth is "How much your puppies", we try to educate them about the difference between good and bad breeding. Once in a while we get through to someone but most people cannot be educated; they just don't understand that buying a living thing is different than shopping for a car.

Do what I do and celebrate the few peopleyou get through to; you probably wouldn't wantyour puppies going to the price shoppers anyway. Many times the price shoppers look at adog as a comodity to be gotten rid of if it gets inconvenient. I have seen the results of "inconvenient" dogs and cr*p breeding; my wife and I are also the rescue coordinator for the state of Minnesota in our breed.

Hang in there Pheasanthunter41. As you know, the financial rewards aren't there, but I'm sure Idon't have to tell you how rewarding it is to breed a nice, healthy litter and see them go to quality homes.

racewayking

Bruce and Pheasant- I know a breeder that took a 27K loss on her breeding operation a couple of years ago when factoring in show costs and field trial costs. She is still breeding and working to keep the breed standard. Thanks to you and those that value the breed.

hav2huntem

This has been an interesting thread to read. I know that this is way off the original subject of WCL's original post, but I think anyone looking for a puppy should think about why they want that dog and how important it's health is to you.
My family and I have been in the market to get a chocolate lab. You see, since my oldest son was 3 years old, he has really liked chocolate labs. It started with a really soft stuffed chocolate lab that he named "Chocolate Chip". It has turned into a great anticipation of eventually having a chocolate lab puppy that he can name "Chocalate Chip". We have had to put him on hold due to having his brother and sister. Well, his brother is 4 and his sister is now 2 and we have promised him that he can get his lab soon.
I started out thinking that I would just get one of the $300-$400 dogs out of the classifieds that I had seen so many times in our local papers. However, thanks to this wonderful internet, I have been able to read up on the lab breed and more specific the English Lab. After getting on a few web sites and talking with some of the reputable local breeders, I knew that I was not going to be buying a puppy from the classifieds. I need my families puppy to be certified and for their parents to have been certified. I can't stand the thought of having to put a puppy down early in it's life because I was worried about a few hundred dollars. I would not be able to explain this to my kids.
I just broke it down in years. If the puppy lives to be a 12-14 year old dog and I pay $1200 for that puppy, then I have $85-$100 a year in that dog. If a certified puppy can help better the chances of my family being able to have wonderful long-lasting memories of their family dog, without being tainted with trips to the vet for hip, eyes or heart problems, then I think it is well worth the extra money!

sproulman

i believe i am only 1 in my area that bought a quality dog.

my lab puppy was 400 dollars in 2003, now they are 800 dollars .

almost all buy them from local guys who breed their dogs in say 100 mile area.prices are 350 on average here in pa.

amish are breeding all time and dogs are 350 each.

ITS ALL ABOUT COST.

i see a lot of hip problems from these dogs also about 2 years old.

a lot of these hunters are well to do also.

they have money and big management jobs, yet they buy cheap dogs.

here is my breeders site.his dogs have the best faces of any breeder i have seen,some labs look buggy eye in faces but his dogs look like they have chinese eyes,best looking dogs i have seen .

www.wetland-retrievers.com