Doc E

I wonder if "wingchaser_labs" would like to see the results of a poll concerning his stance on Genetic Health Certifications vs Those of us who believe in responsible breeding,,,,,,,,,,,
Nah -- He wouldn't like it --- but on the other hand, it wouldn't change his practices either.
Ignorance can be cured, stupid is forever.


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AWDuncan

Hi WCL,
I wanted to see if any of the pups are still available. I sent you an email through this board with my contact information.

Duncan

racewayking

Nice gamble on your first ever HNI post. I mean, why even check the bloodlines of the dogs since you are getting a verbal guarantee and a handshake.

racewayking

If you are so certain in the health of your kennel why don't you guarantee and test your dogs, are you hiding something?

mustad

What's the guarantee going to do? You've already brought the dog home. You've invested your time and money to train it. You and your family have become attached to the dog!! Now you find out it has Hip Dysplasia because the breeder wasn't responsible enough to figure out the risks before breeding. What are you going to do now? Trade it in with the same breeder to get another dog that has the same percentage chance of hip problems as the one you've just gone through this ordeal with. Even if it was a full refund, which would be very unlikely, the damage caused is more than the value of the guarantee.

It amazes me that there is a market for dogs like these.

racewayking

Are you serious???? By testing the dogs they eliminate unhealthy dogs from the breeding program. I know a lab breeder that had a dog that they were offered 40k for, I will not disclose the kennel name or dog but a very well known show dog. the breeder found out that the dog had a degentitive heart condition and pulled him from any stud services and didn't sell the dog, it is in a pet home and doing great. Now this breeder could have hosed a breeder out of country and taken the 40k or kept studding the dog out, instead she eliminated the dog from future breedings and notified the people that bred to the dog. The dog never had a history of heart problems in his lines.

The whole reason you run these tests is to make sure any dog you are breeding is healthy before you start breeding them. By testing you are reducing the chance of having unhealthy dogs. The breeder I know will sell an English dual purpose lab for 800-1000 bucks and refund the fee if the dog ever develops a disease she has screened for. For an extra 400 bucks I can get a beautiful dog from the best lines with a health guarantee or take my chances and hope a breeder that doesn't test their dogs hooks me up with a healthy dog. The chances of getting a dog with a health issue is much higher with a lab from a backyard breeder like Wingchaser since there is a lack of thorough records in the lines.

mustad

I have no problem with what you are saying. However, I'd rather have a dog from a breeder that has tested his sire and bitch who doesn't give a guarantee than a pup from a breeder that doesn't test and gives a guarantee.

The guarantee means nothing compared with taking the steps to verify that you are not passing on genetic problems.

Bruce H

Here's my take on gaurantee's:

Gaurantees from breeders are like anything else, how good they are is totally dependent of how responsible the breeder is and/or how the puppy contract is written. There are a couple breeders around here in my breed that have a 5 year gaurantee!! Imagine that, for 5 years, no worries. WRONG! I've seen the contracts from both of those breeders and it would be all but impossible to comply with the terms of the contract and qualify for the gaurantee. Those breeders know that and count on it.

Or youbuy fromthe BYB that decided to breed their Fluffy with Spike down the streetand make a few bucks. Maybe it's the only litter they will ever have or they only breed once every few years. Even if you wanted a replacement puppy, how would you get one?

The best thing you can hope for if you buy a puppy from a less-than-responsible breeder is that the state the breederare in has some sort of puppy lemon law. Not that those types of laws are the ultimate solution, but at least it's something.

So my position is and always has been: shop the breeders, not price. And when I say shop the breeders, I mean see that they are doing the health testing on both the dam and sire and can prove it with the original documents; tougher to alter an original document.

sproulman

you are very lucky you can follow history of each puppy to new owners as they grow older.

if you are truly doing this, you arespending great deal of time.i wish most dog breeders would do this,they dont,so many problems go undected.

from what i see, even with a gauarntee, most like me would never return dog,we all get attached to our puppies.

you would not believe the number of dogs,LABS from backyard breeders that have health problems.

i see a ton of it, most is TUMORS,HIP PROBLEMS and now, BITING OR AGGRESSION.

my vet said he is seeing a ton of biting, yes, biting labs coming to him.

unless you can go back thru each dog on HISTORY and confirm that they did not have problems,which you said you did,you cant really say there is no problems.

certificate of health of mom/dadand as far back as you can,is very important,not to many byb that can ever do that in writing.

labs can be 1 sick puppy if they problems in history,i see many that were put to sleep after 2 years old and most were TUMORS and a TON OF HIP PROBLEMS.

i would take a MIX breed dog over a FULL pedigree dog if i was buying from a breeder without a health gaurantee and reputation.

i am not knocking your puppies, they couldbe most healthy pupsbut its roll of dice without confirmed backgrounds of dad/mom/grandpops/great grandpops.great grandmams.

i would just explain TO all that to anyone buying a pup,tell them, THIS BREED HAS HEALTH PROBLEMS, I DONT KNOW OF ANY THAT I AM AWARE OF WITH DAD/MOMAND I HAVE NO WRITTEN GAUARANTEE ON HEALTH.

i am sure even with telling all that, you will sell everyone of them, i see them sold as fast as they are born here in my neck of woods in pa.

sproulman

i dont believe that is reason, a lot dont have records of past dogs.

also he would have to charge more, like 800 dollars and a lot of work and possibly not see dogs.

if you go over 400 dollars for lab ,its hard to sell a puppy UNLESS you are well known breeder.

going price here in pa. for backyard breeder puppy is 350 dollars............