ideal rifle
08-16-2006, 08:41 AM
#21
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: ideal rifle
ORIGINAL: ipscshooter
I'd really like someone to explain this, because I think it's BS. I find it next to impossible to believe that a .30-30 is a brush buster, but, the .300 Win. Mag., .30-06, or .308 are not. The .30-30 is considered abrush gun because it's light, small and easily maneuverable. Not because the bullets are unaffected by twigs.
ORIGINAL: Chris25
The 30-30 is more of a brush caliper meaning a small twig off a tree or something won't really affect it.
The 30-30 is more of a brush caliper meaning a small twig off a tree or something won't really affect it.
08-16-2006, 09:03 AM
#22
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: ideal rifle
ORIGINAL: ipscshooter
I'd really like someone to explain this, because I think it's BS. I find it next to impossible to believe that a .30-30 is a brush buster, but, the .300 Win. Mag., .30-06, or .308 are not. The .30-30 is considered abrush gun because it's light, small and easily maneuverable. Not because the bullets are unaffected by twigs.
ORIGINAL: Chris25
The 30-30 is more of a brush caliper meaning a small twig off a tree or something won't really affect it.
The 30-30 is more of a brush caliper meaning a small twig off a tree or something won't really affect it.
08-16-2006, 09:10 AM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,033
RE: ideal rifle
Here are a couple quotes from articles I found:
When I hear hunters talking about brush-busting calibers, I often wonder what it is they’re shooting at. It seems to me that the whole point is to miss brush and similar obstructions rather than hit them. I’m simplifying, of course, but not by much, because we don’t hear about timber-busting calibers as much as we used to. One reason is that the myths about thumb-size bullets bulldozing their way through timber have pretty much been demolished. – Jim Carmichael
When I was a kid, back in the '60s, every deer hunter I knew was convinced that calibers like the .30 - 30 Winchester and .35 Remington were (because of their large, comparatively slow - moving bullets) the best option for hunting deer in heavy cover. The myth back then was that these "brush busters" would bore right through the bramble and branches, and those lighter, faster bullets from speed demons (like the .243 and .270) would "blow up" on contact with a branch or deflect off the tiniest twig. This made these calibers better suited for mule deer and antelope, species more often found in wide - open places.
The sad part is that the same myth rampant 30 years ago refuses to die. It is kept alive in deer camps all across North America by hard - nosed hunters refusing to believe the results of numerous tests that prove there is no such thing as a "brush buster" bullet or caliber.
The truth of the matter is that no matter what caliber you choose, if you insist on trying to punch through screens of cover, deflections are going to occur. Interestingly, research on projectile deflection has proven that some of the worst offenders when it came to deflections were the big, round - nosed, slower - moving projectiles which some hunters continue to call "brush busters." – Gary Clancy, North American Hunting Club
Bottom line is, if there is something between you and your target, you need to hold off on the shot. We owe it to our prey to make clean kills, and anyone who thinks that, because they're shooting some slow speed blunt nose bullet, they can hit things on the other side of a thicket of brush, is just kidding themselves. They're going to end up with a missed, or worse, wounded animal to track. "Brush busting" is an old wive's tale.
When I hear hunters talking about brush-busting calibers, I often wonder what it is they’re shooting at. It seems to me that the whole point is to miss brush and similar obstructions rather than hit them. I’m simplifying, of course, but not by much, because we don’t hear about timber-busting calibers as much as we used to. One reason is that the myths about thumb-size bullets bulldozing their way through timber have pretty much been demolished. – Jim Carmichael
When I was a kid, back in the '60s, every deer hunter I knew was convinced that calibers like the .30 - 30 Winchester and .35 Remington were (because of their large, comparatively slow - moving bullets) the best option for hunting deer in heavy cover. The myth back then was that these "brush busters" would bore right through the bramble and branches, and those lighter, faster bullets from speed demons (like the .243 and .270) would "blow up" on contact with a branch or deflect off the tiniest twig. This made these calibers better suited for mule deer and antelope, species more often found in wide - open places.
The sad part is that the same myth rampant 30 years ago refuses to die. It is kept alive in deer camps all across North America by hard - nosed hunters refusing to believe the results of numerous tests that prove there is no such thing as a "brush buster" bullet or caliber.
The truth of the matter is that no matter what caliber you choose, if you insist on trying to punch through screens of cover, deflections are going to occur. Interestingly, research on projectile deflection has proven that some of the worst offenders when it came to deflections were the big, round - nosed, slower - moving projectiles which some hunters continue to call "brush busters." – Gary Clancy, North American Hunting Club
Bottom line is, if there is something between you and your target, you need to hold off on the shot. We owe it to our prey to make clean kills, and anyone who thinks that, because they're shooting some slow speed blunt nose bullet, they can hit things on the other side of a thicket of brush, is just kidding themselves. They're going to end up with a missed, or worse, wounded animal to track. "Brush busting" is an old wive's tale.
08-16-2006, 02:55 PM
#24
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 5
RE: ideal rifle
Cool yours heels fella's. I wasn't tring to say the other calipers were less affective. But where I live you can't see for more than fifty yards in front of you at the most. The 30-30 by what I mean of brush gun is only good for about 150yrds affectively unless you use the new plastic tipped kind that have more velosity and most 30-30 are either marlin or winchester. Both being lever action and both come with just open sight. You can have a side mounted scope but if you were wanting to shoot something way off then your shooting the wrong gun anyway. Yeah a twig will deflect any caliber but to what extent. A fast moving small 223 bullet will deflect a lot more than slower moving larger caliber round will. I don't usually just shoot one hog at a time. In my area a hog isn't a trophy animal it's a pest. I can make a faster second shot with open sights within fourty yards than I can with a scope. Typically I shoot my 7mm mag just cause I like more power but it only holds three rounds my 30-30's have 6+1 and reload a lot faster, have shorter barrels so I can swing them around at running targets. Last time I went to the lease I shot eight hogs. five from the stand with the 30-30 and three from the ground with my 40cal. The only other guns that works just as good for me not you are a ar-15 or mini 14. Again for the fast follow ups and more rounds.period.
08-24-2006, 09:46 AM
#27
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: ideal rifle
ORIGINAL: Chris25
Cool yours heels fella's. I wasn't tring to say the other calipers were less affective. But where I live you can't see for more than fifty yards in front of you at the most. The 30-30 by what I mean of brush gun is only good for about 150yrds affectively unless you use the new plastic tipped kind that have more velosity and most 30-30 are either marlin or winchester. Both being lever action and both come with just open sight. You can have a side mounted scope but if you were wanting to shoot something way off then your shooting the wrong gun anyway. Yeah a twig will deflect any caliber but to what extent. A fast moving small 223 bullet will deflect a lot more than slower moving larger caliber round will. I don't usually just shoot one hog at a time. In my area a hog isn't a trophy animal it's a pest. I can make a faster second shot with open sights within fourty yards than I can with a scope. Typically I shoot my 7mm mag just cause I like more power but it only holds three rounds my 30-30's have 6+1 and reload a lot faster, have shorter barrels so I can swing them around at running targets. Last time I went to the lease I shot eight hogs. five from the stand with the 30-30 and three from the ground with my 40cal. The only other guns that works just as good for me not you are a ar-15 or mini 14. Again for the fast follow ups and more rounds.period.
Cool yours heels fella's. I wasn't tring to say the other calipers were less affective. But where I live you can't see for more than fifty yards in front of you at the most. The 30-30 by what I mean of brush gun is only good for about 150yrds affectively unless you use the new plastic tipped kind that have more velosity and most 30-30 are either marlin or winchester. Both being lever action and both come with just open sight. You can have a side mounted scope but if you were wanting to shoot something way off then your shooting the wrong gun anyway. Yeah a twig will deflect any caliber but to what extent. A fast moving small 223 bullet will deflect a lot more than slower moving larger caliber round will. I don't usually just shoot one hog at a time. In my area a hog isn't a trophy animal it's a pest. I can make a faster second shot with open sights within fourty yards than I can with a scope. Typically I shoot my 7mm mag just cause I like more power but it only holds three rounds my 30-30's have 6+1 and reload a lot faster, have shorter barrels so I can swing them around at running targets. Last time I went to the lease I shot eight hogs. five from the stand with the 30-30 and three from the ground with my 40cal. The only other guns that works just as good for me not you are a ar-15 or mini 14. Again for the fast follow ups and more rounds.period.
08-28-2006, 06:06 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Wewahitchka Florida
Posts: 3,273
RE: ideal rifle
ORIGINAL: CamoCop
for hogs...all around...not too big or not too small, how 'bout the .30-30 Winchestor?
for hogs...all around...not too big or not too small, how 'bout the .30-30 Winchestor?
